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Stupid aggressive AI is the only thing that really annoys me in this game

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Posted (edited)

People who are constantly complaining about AI haven t tried and done a Multiplayer races Yet jesuuus 🤣🤣 that seems we have a Destruction Derby demos inside of this game.. One thing that Codemasters should absolutely improve in the Future

Edited by CarlosSantos87

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3 hours ago, CarlosSantos87 said:

People who are constantly complaining about AI haven t tried and done a Multiplayer races Yet jesuuus 🤣🤣 that seems we have a Destruction Derby

Is something good, only because something else is even worse? Join a league, play with the very same people times, join e-sports events, it is a completely different story there. But, this has nothing to do with a serious discussion about the AI flaws that exist in F1 2020 and that should be adressed for new iterations of the game. Personally, if there was zero AI improvements, I would have little motivation to buy a (full price) F1 2021 game. I cant think of anything else (cheating in MP or free practice aside) that would to this franchise better improving things.

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I agree to an extent.  I think the AI certainly has it's flaws when it comes to aggressiveness.   Sometimes it's been my fault for trying to slam the door on them too late, but I find that's when the flaw in the AI programming really shows.  I've seen instances where I make my block move too late and get on the brakes going into a turn and the AI just slams into me.  You'd think after the initial contact they'd slow down or try some form of avoidance and instead they just continue to try and drive forward with no evasive action.   Heck, I've even seen it off the track in a runoff area or on the grass.  They just stay in that straight line, trying to drive full speed ahead even though you've made contact, and are now both off track.  It's like they passed out behind the wheel or something.    I've seen one before where the AI was trying to overtake me at Sochi on the outside.   To the AI's left is the wall/barrier.  I moved to block too late, my left rear hits the AI front wing, turns me sideways so my front wing is now in the wall, and their front is driving straight into the side of me.  Do they stop? Try to avoid further contact?  Soemthing?  Nope... the AI car just keeps going down towards the turn as if I'm not there.   I get that I caused the incident I'm describing above, that's not even up for debate, but what I'm talking about is the action from the AI after the incident.  It's like they have no idea we just had a collision and no idea what to do, they just want to keep driving their programmed line it seems.

 

 

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15 hours ago, petro1319 said:

It's like they passed out behind the wheel or something.

Couldnt have put it better myself 😛

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17 hours ago, petro1319 said:

I agree to an extent.  I think the AI certainly has it's flaws when it comes to aggressiveness.   Sometimes it's been my fault for trying to slam the door on them too late, but I find that's when the flaw in the AI programming really shows.  I've seen instances where I make my block move too late and get on the brakes going into a turn and the AI just slams into me.  You'd think after the initial contact they'd slow down or try some form of avoidance and instead they just continue to try and drive forward with no evasive action.   Heck, I've even seen it off the track in a runoff area or on the grass.  They just stay in that straight line, trying to drive full speed ahead even though you've made contact, and are now both off track.  It's like they passed out behind the wheel or something.    I've seen one before where the AI was trying to overtake me at Sochi on the outside.   To the AI's left is the wall/barrier.  I moved to block too late, my left rear hits the AI front wing, turns me sideways so my front wing is now in the wall, and their front is driving straight into the side of me.  Do they stop? Try to avoid further contact?  Soemthing?  Nope... the AI car just keeps going down towards the turn as if I'm not there.   I get that I caused the incident I'm describing above, that's not even up for debate, but what I'm talking about is the action from the AI after the incident.  It's like they have no idea we just had a collision and no idea what to do, they just want to keep driving their programmed line it seems.

 

Yeah, this happens a lot.

You feel the slightest contact and you know that the AI will continue driving full speed straight ahead until you are in the wall.  

Not the slightest adjustment or backing off to avoid the accident!!

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On 4/1/2021 at 4:42 PM, Exasperated said:

Sorry I can't agree with that , what do you mean? ,,are you saying that people don't have the right to contradict themselves? . I'd say that the AI definitely is Aggressive but when someone else says that its not then  it is'nt  Lets just agree to disagree ........, thinking about it I can't agree with that.  Mean while the main man at Codemasters is thinking about how good the sales figures are going to be after he introduces the addition of leather chaps and monster trucks to the game............ " Hello Dude , my names Jackie Treehorn "

you're right - Let's agree to disagree. 

And also remeber that each and every one of us will always have our own opinion and preferences. This also means that you can't satisfy everyone

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1 hour ago, ICE95 said:

you're right - Let's agree to disagree. 

And also remeber that each and every one of us will always have our own opinion and preferences. This also means that you can't satisfy everyone

Agreed.

But can't imagine that anyone enjoys being driven off the road by the AI, as they try to make yet another ridiculous overtake.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ICE95 said:

you're right - Let's agree to disagree. 

And also remeber that each and every one of us will always have our own opinion and preferences. This also means that you can't satisfy everyone

 

5 hours ago, ICE95 said:

you're right - Let's agree to disagree. 

And also remeber that each and every one of us will always have our own opinion and preferences. This also means that you can't satisfy everyone

Its the age old problem of manunkind , those that want Zebras to have stripes because Zebra have stripes and that's what helps to make them  a Zebra and those that would like a breeding  programme to be undertaken  that would lead to them having no stripes as they think they would look better without them and be more like a horse. And if we don't agree to disagree then we could have a War about the situation and kill each other to vent our frustrations over it.

In the current situation It would help if Codemasters would put out Two different  versions of the game ,  1 Titled F1 and another titled F1  I've had an idea Edition that has all the stuff like Zebra stripe editor, bra and pant set colour editor, 5G mast placement editor. Eye brow shaping editor etc etc

An end to the problem that is caused by sharing , compromise is never a good thing because not many people are getting what they want. 

Just to get back on topic or we will  argue about that , The AI in the game needs to be reworked as it obviously is not up to the same standards as a lot of the other areas of the game that are absolutely excellent. PLEASE IMPROVE THE WAY THAT THE AI DRIVES Codemasters.

Edited by Exasperated

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Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2021 at 9:34 AM, svensenk86 said:

Make a video and show some examples when it is happening so often.

 

It took me some time since I did not actively stream @youtube for a while due to personal reasons, but here goes an example. This take shows my teammate running into the back of my car, breaking his front spoiler in a non-race, non-driver-error situation, very typical for what I experience in a lot of practise sessions. Mind you, this video is for AI discussion only and may not match my usual youtube content in quality, in fact I did not give a damn here about recording settings and stuff. Youtube might still be editing the HD version, also.

First off, this video is from free practice. AI is set to 90% (as I always have it set) nearly all driving aids are off. You would think that AI knows several modes, one of them being a "racing" setting where they try hard and win positions and the like, and at least another where they take things a tad easier like during free practice, in- and outlaps and the like. Given this video, that does not seem to be the case. I have the impression that AI knows only a single "mindset" which is applied to all sessions. If this should be true, that is bad and one of the areas one could work on improving AI.

Second, this is involving teammates. We are not "rivals" by the games definition, my current rival is Kviat. You might think that if you are an F1 team owner driving your own car about, your teammate would prefer to avoid contact between cars whenever possible (even if I were going slow on the racing line, which I actually did not). Why Corea is in "attack" mode in this situation at all is beyond me. He is rather crashing his spoiler and running into his teammate, than backing up early before a corner where there is no possibility to overtake at all. Mind again, this is not from a race where **** happens (see Vettel vs Leclerc Ferrari Austria, then again this F1 game knows a "rival" state as well). Also, the moment he is locking up and loosing his car behind me, he is making a bad desicion steering to the inside where he will loose it even more, whereas every race driver IRL would go to the outside to avoid car contact.

Third, this video is from mygame mode first season, meaning you can not compare car performance to other modes where F1 cars might have a lot better, developed handling etc.

So, in this video you will see my teammates perspective first, I am driving the track acclamatisation programme and did choose one of the premade settings with medium downforce to start with. It was my 2nd or 3rd lap in that practice mode driving about 8/10ths faster than my previous lap, so I know that given my car and setup and white tyre I am braking considerably late (at the point where you just start to go straight again, a bit after the bend), braking later would make me lockup during the next corner or going way too wide, missing the apex (and the game for the development programme). In the replay I have included a "rewind" (check his spoiler flap coming off) and my cars perspective as well, so you can see it from my POV, too.

Note i would not have any problems concerning AI if this happened here and there, but the AI does this all time, even in awkward, non-racing situations. Say, you ruined a tyre or a spoiler and you are going slow into the pit entry, they even push you off the line there, which is absolutely ridiculous. Say you have tyre slip at the start and are coming away slowly, they just run through you.

 

 

Edited by Schneehase

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Posted (edited)

Nothing looks wildly wrong in that video to me...

Edit: it could be argued you were impeding a teammate on a fast lap actually.

Edited by Ultra3142

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

could be argued you were impeding a teammate on a fast lap

What is the base of this argument? This is like 4 minutes into the first free practice. Check my steering wheel showing that i am actually going 0.8 sec faster than my previous lap. Not going slow, not breaking early either. Everyone on the slowest tyre. Why does the AI decide that as a teammate in free practice it was the best solution to run into my car which is going on the racing line, no driver errors or other problems involved?

Edited by Schneehase

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1 hour ago, Schneehase said:

What is the base of this argument? This is like 4 minutes into the first free practice. Check my steering wheel showing that i am actually going 0.8 sec faster than my previous lap. Not going slow, not breaking early either. Everyone on the slowest tyre. Why does the AI decide that as a teammate in free practice it was the best solution to run into my car which is going on the racing line, no driver errors or other problems involved?

You said the start of the video was from your teammates perspective? They caught up to you at pace and had to brake hard to avoid running into the back of you.

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53 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

They caught up to you at pace and had to brake hard to avoid running into the back of you

Did you read my post and watch the full video at all? It includes both drivers perspectives.

That is what is happening on a real F1 track between every 2nd corner, someone is catching up to someone else because of being faster / slower, in an alternate program, on different tyres or even because someone had an error somewhere. That is not the problem.

We are not discussing here, if I am a good or a bad driver, or if I could have driven 2/10th faster that lap, or if I could have braked 7 meters later, we are discussing the AIs decision to crash into the back of another car in all these named situations. I am questioning this, we are playing the official F1 game, and not "destruction derby". Why do they do this? Hence this should not even happen if you drove slow through a corner on your racing line on purpose, what is not even the case here! Even then they would need to back up and find a way around your without driving through you, I do not understand your argument?

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1 minute ago, Schneehase said:

Did you read my post and watch the full video at all?

Yes 🙂

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Is it you or you teammate driving at the start of the video? You said it was your teammate but I did ask to check above. 

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1 minute ago, Ultra3142 said:

Yes 🙂

You can halt the video on both driver perspectives on the apex of the corner before the breaking zone. My speed there is 280, his is 286 km/h. If someone claims that being a speed difference where you are catching up so hard on the man in front of you, that you cant help it but crash into his car because you have nowhere else to go, ok then i buy this and the AI is doing what it is supposed to do. Is that what you think?

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3 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

Is it you or you teammate driving at the start of the video?

 

3 hours ago, Schneehase said:

So, in this video you will see my teammates perspective first,

 

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Then I don't see how you can disagree with my point that they came up quickly behind you and if anything you got in their way, rather than the AI doing something unreasonable.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

We are not discussing here, if I am a good or a bad driver, or if I could have driven 2/10th faster that lap, or if I could have braked 7 meters later, we are discussing the AIs decision to crash into the back of another car in all these named situations.

I agree. It's ridiculous -it doesn't matter who is faster or slower, the car just catches up and then shunts the rear without any attempt at overtaking or adjusting pace or position. 

I experienced this in the beta, and I got the impression that aggression had been increased to satisfy people who complained the AI were not aggressive enough. For that reason, I did not buy 2020, I've waited to hear that it's been improved but I've seen this complaint ever since.

So I stuck to 2019, and their behaviour is considerably better than this. Turning up the difficulty in 2019 does not make them behave like this, it makes them faster but not not more crash prone.

I just hope CM learn something from this.

NOTE this is MY opinion, others are entitled to theirs, but it won't change mine.

Edited by Morsify
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Posted (edited)

I'd missed that the AI car actually hit you @Schneehase. That wasn't clear to me from the video. I thought they'd stopped short.

Edited by Ultra3142

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2 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

I'd missed that the AI car actually hit you @Schneehase. That wasn't clear to me from the video. I thought they'd stopped short.

Then you probably stopped watching when the (1st) replay stops. Dont, the video is over a minute long, look at the rewind (you see his flap from the frontspoiler fly away) and look at the 2nd replay from my perspective, driving in front. He hit me in the back under braking and I had all hands full to do to keep my car on track / through the next corner. Needless to say my programme for track acclimatisation was ruined. Its not the point here, this is just an example video, how F1 2020 plays all the time. I think the posting above from @Morsify sums it all up perfectly in different words than mine. 

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27 minutes ago, Morsify said:

I agree. It's ridiculous -it doesn't matter who is faster or slower, the car just catches up and then shunts the rear without any attempt at overtaking or adjusting pace or position. 

I experienced this in the beta, and I got the impression that aggression had been increased to satisfy people who complained the AI were not aggressive enough.

Exactly - it would be awesome, if the AI would dive into a corner on the inside line because it was their ultimate chance during the last lap, and I had to decided if i rather open up my steering and take a few points, or if I play risky and close the door on them. It would be perfect if they wheelbanged me through the upcoming 2-3 corners. It would be super they saved all that overtake energy for the 2 corners of a track, where overtaking is actually possible and in return I would have to do all i can to fend that off. If I lost on that, i would congratulate the dev team what a perfect experience they created.

That would all be examples of being agressive. Driving into my back in every situation possible is not, and it not less what the current AI is doing consistently. I wish this was corrected in future games or the better in a patch for F1 2020 (because its still a brilliant game, overall, dont get me wrong).

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23 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Then you probably stopped watching when the (1st) replay stops. Dont, the video is over a minute long, look at the rewind (you see his flap from the frontspoiler fly away) and look at the 2nd replay from my perspective, driving in front. He hit me in the back under braking and I had all hands full to do to keep my car on track / through the next corner. Needless to say my programme for track acclimatisation was ruined. Its not the point here, this is just an example video, how F1 2020 plays all the time. I think the posting above from @Morsify sums it all up perfectly in different words than mine. 

No I did watch the full video. I thought you'd taken avoiding action as they were trying to pass rather than being hit. You did say you were hit though so apologies I missed that.

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I can see it's possibly harder to code AI to handle big closing speed differences like this, and as I think I said earlier I myself am far more likely to crash into another car in situations like this than when speeds are similar too. Which does not mean it wouldn't be great if the AI could be better at handling this!

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17 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Exactly - it would be awesome, if the AI would dive into a corner on the inside line because it was their ultimate chance during the last lap, and I had to decided if i rather open up my steering and take a few points, or if I play risky and close the door on them. It would be perfect if they wheelbanged me through the upcoming 2-3 corners. It would be super they saved all that overtake energy for the 2 corners of a track, where overtaking is actually possible and in return I would have to do all i can to fend that off. If I lost on that, i would congratulate the dev team what a perfect experience they created.

That would all be examples of being agressive. Driving into my back in every situation possible is not, and it not less what the current AI is doing consistently. I wish this was corrected in future games or the better in a patch for F1 2020 (because its still a brilliant game, overall, dont get me wrong).

Your describing the kind of races that I have at 100% distance with the AI turned down to around 50 ,disregard your campaign for a minute and go to grand prix and do a 50% race without a qualifying and race at 50AI in Cockpit view in a racing point or Renault but set FOV at 35 and offset Horizontal at 55 or as close to the in game wheel as the camera will go , you can't see the mirrors but they are not that important trust me , you can counter this by assigning a button to look back or rear view. Set look to apex at 15 degrees as well . That  mega distorted fish eye lens view so you can see the mirrors is just wrong. Try racing the AI now and see how they behave , as an experiment  it will be interesting to see how you get on.

Yes the AI in the game isn't supposed to crash into you I know but as an experiment how can it hurt you.

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