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Stupid aggressive AI is the only thing that really annoys me in this game


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19 minutes ago, Exasperated said:

but what can you do apart from work around it


Well, what about pointing it out as a bug and telling the devs how bad their AI really is, especially so for an annual full price game, so this has eventually a chance being corrected in the upcoming release?

Certainly not helpful: claiming there is no problem with AI in 2020 and putting it in a way that people who set AI level too high are to blame themselves. It is quite unfortunate that Codemasters are doing so many things so brilliantly (myteam is fantastic, still the best F1 game you can buy today, at least as long as you dont compare this to community modding only) and then there are like 3-4 flaws that completely ruin any immersion, which otoh wouldnt be too hard to correct if you had some insight into the game code, namely mixing up Hamilton with Bottas, AI flaws like described in this topic, inside / outside cornering mixed up for AI, no working cheat precautions in online / multiplayer, and a few more. If there was any chance these get ironed out, man what a gem of a game we would have 🙂 And yeah, blame the pandemic, but if you sell the "official" F1 annual game, you have got to make sure the tracks driven IRL are content of your game. Deliver them later if you must, collect some cash for a DLC, but dont just simply do nothing so that noone can drive where the stars drove in 2020. K, maybe thats just me and my personal opinion, thats perfectly fine. I d still wish someone at Codies read what you and me think about their game, so we all can hope for the better.

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2 hours ago, Schneehase said:


Well, what about pointing it out as a bug and telling the devs how bad their AI really is, especially so for an annual full price game, so this has eventually a chance being corrected in the upcoming release?

Certainly not helpful: claiming there is no problem with AI in 2020 and putting it in a way that people who set AI level too high are to blame themselves. It is quite unfortunate that Codemasters are doing so many things so brilliantly (myteam is fantastic, still the best F1 game you can buy today, at least as long as you dont compare this to community modding only) and then there are like 3-4 flaws that completely ruin any immersion, which otoh wouldnt be too hard to correct if you had some insight into the game code, namely mixing up Hamilton with Bottas, AI flaws like described in this topic, inside / outside cornering mixed up for AI, no working cheat precautions in online / multiplayer, and a few more. If there was any chance these get ironed out, man what a gem of a game we would have 🙂 And yeah, blame the pandemic, but if you sell the "official" F1 annual game, you have got to make sure the tracks driven IRL are content of your game. Deliver them later if you must, collect some cash for a DLC, but dont just simply do nothing so that noone can drive where the stars drove in 2020. K, maybe thats just me and my personal opinion, thats perfectly fine. I d still wish someone at Codies read what you and me think about their game, so we all can hope for the better.

You are absolutely right the AI is too aggressive and also has poor reactions in certain  situations in the game and you should not have to lower the level in order to race ,lowering the setting is a work around . I believe that they already are aware of the problems that the AI has but that at present they do not have the capacity to deal with this as their priorities lay elsewhere also you would need a lot more people making a fuss about it than would be attainable on this forum to carry sufficient weight to affect change ,  for a starter to test the water you could try a poll to see what the reaction is from people , do they find the AI is a problem  From my point of view this problem is not being addressed because the focus is on adding playability to  the game to keep interest in the product , until that is not the focus and the makers find that they have time on their hands then it is unlikely to have any importance to them because their main market is the 'KIDS'   , but  I am quite old and although in my head there is still a 20year old,  there is also a world beaten cynical waste that doesn't do hope , Hope has to be carefully metered or it could cause premature death. My reaction to the situation is just a self preservation narrative. I have to leave hope to people like yourself that still have that much energy to get angry about detail, My campaigning just about stretches to stopping the game from having Leather chaps as a selectable item of clothing in the shop  or Monster trucks being available in 'My Team'  My wishes for the future are that the development goes to hard core simulation and any time spent by programmers is on things that actually matter in a driving / racing game , until the focus is solely there things like the way the AI perform will have no importance in the programme  Lets hope that the future budget will allow for this and someone that makes the big decisions at Codemasters decides to focus on the drivability  side of game for a while to make for a more satisfying experience . Have a great race. Regards 

If we have HOPE then its got be that the main man at Codemasters is from Del Monte.

Edited by Exasperated
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My issue with the AI is that when they overtake they only move over on track exactly enough space that they need. If there's 10 extra feet of track space they will use none of it for safety. That ends up requiring perfect steering to avoid an accident. Overtake defense is generally spotty too. It's predictable but they box you into places where you basically need perfect cornering ability to avoid an accident. It's really annoying. Most people aren't capable of consistently steering perfectly. The AI should give a safety buffer and they just don't.

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On 3/30/2021 at 11:05 AM, Rango said:

I agree. I run myteam at around 80/82 which is fine for me mostly and don't seem to have too many issues, but a few of us have a multiplayer league and it's set a bit lower as we're not all at exactly the same level, and you'd swear the level is ai intelligence rather than difficulty! Countless times we get driven into because it seems the ai cars simply will not budge off their predetermined race line, no matter what. Irl a driver would give up the line / position to avoid contact, whereas the ai just seem to keep going regardless. Its caused many a rage quit. 

Same here. I run a league with my cousin on AI 80. I love this game but the AI is just totally unrealistic. No Formula 1 driver would actually maneuver a F1 car THAT aggressively (well, maybe Mazepin or Vettel...). Sometimes the internet connection doesn't seem to be perfect and there's a little lagging and in this case it's even worse. The AI basically just smashes through you but they actually don't suffer any damage to the front wing. However, as soon as you switch to autopilot, they change their aggressiveness completely. We set the autopilot to 75 (so 5 slower than the AI) but it still manages to keep the AI behind. If they could only fix this, this game would be so much better...

Edited by SixtoRodriguez
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7 hours ago, Schneehase said:

I d still wish someone at Codies read what you and me think about their game,

I'm confident that Codemasters staff read this forum and are aware of all of the issues being discussed. How easy things are to 'fix' and where priorities may lie for limited resources obviously impacts on what changes may or may not happen in the future. Coding AI performance strikes me as extremely difficult by the way, especially when you consider how erratic real human performance is in online racing. 

Specifically on overtaking I'll say that if I am racing AI who are either much slower or much faster than me then I find it much harder to judge things than when more evenly matched, with collisions more likely as a result. It doesn't strike me as ridiculous that there may be similar issues with AI cars.

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2 hours ago, ICE95 said:

AI not aggressive people complain, AI aggressive people complain. 

People please make up your mind!

I am the OP and I think using the word aggressive was incorrect on my part.

Imagine that most people enjoy fairly aggressive AI, in terms of defending their position and not just waving you through, plus taking realistic opportunities to overtake as and when they arise.

I guess 'stupid unrealistic AI' would have been a better thing to say.

I very much enjoy a good hard race with the AI, even if I lose a few places.  What I don't like, is them trying to overtake you through the S's and spoon and 130R at Suzuka (for example) and then just driving you off the track if they can't.  If you are on the racing line and driving at any sort of realistic speed, then it should just not happen in any of those places!!

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41 minutes ago, tommyboyo said:

I am the OP and I think using the word aggressive was incorrect on my part.

Imagine that most people enjoy fairly aggressive AI, in terms of defending their position and not just waving you through, plus taking realistic opportunities to overtake as and when they arise.

I guess 'stupid unrealistic AI' would have been a better thing to say.

I very much enjoy a good hard race with the AI, even if I lose a few places.  What I don't like, is them trying to overtake you through the S's and spoon and 130R at Suzuka (for example) and then just driving you off the track if they can't.  If you are on the racing line and driving at any sort of realistic speed, then it should just not happen in any of those places!!

Amen.

That's exactly what I think as well. I also used the term "aggressive" but it is incorrect. I only do 1 or max. 2 league races per week. It's just frustrating to spend like 2 hours on training and qualifying and then Leclerc tries to overtake you in turn 4 in Hungary in the first lap and destroys your whole race. This kind of stuff happens way to often. 

Edited by SixtoRodriguez
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4 hours ago, ICE95 said:

AI not aggressive people complain, AI aggressive people complain. 

People please make up your mind!

Sorry I can't agree with that , what do you mean? ,,are you saying that people don't have the right to contradict themselves? . I'd say that the AI definitely is Aggressive but when someone else says that its not then  it is'nt  Lets just agree to disagree ........, thinking about it I can't agree with that.  Mean while the main man at Codemasters is thinking about how good the sales figures are going to be after he introduces the addition of leather chaps and monster trucks to the game............ " Hello Dude , my names Jackie Treehorn "

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10 hours ago, Zachrulez said:

but they box you into places where you basically need perfect cornering ability to avoid an accident

 

8 hours ago, SixtoRodriguez said:

The AI basically just smashes through you but they actually don't suffer any damage to the front wing

 

2 hours ago, SixtoRodriguez said:

then Leclerc tries to overtake you in turn 4 in Hungary in the first lap and destroys your whole race. This kind of stuff happens way to often. 

 

2 hours ago, tommyboyo said:

What I don't like, is them trying to overtake you through the S's and spoon and 130R at Suzuka (for example) and then just driving you off the track if they can't

 

7 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

How easy things are to 'fix' and where priorities may lie for limited resources obviously impacts on what changes may or may not happen in the future. Coding AI performance strikes me as extremely difficult

 

All of these quotes reflect my experience with AI in one or the other way, I concur. Since the AI can bump into your car without any disadvantages (front spoiler indestructible, hardly any penalties) it also does not have to calculate, if its move is risky / worth doing / to be avoided. Most of the F1 drivers IRL will try and minimize the risk of throwing away their races in a single instant, they start to learn this very early in their careers. There are some exceptions to this rule (think Maldonado, Magnussen) and the AI would be perfect, if it could reflect this (wishful thinking here ofc...). But you should not get to drive versus 21x Magnussens in your races. Times I feel this way. And yes, there are places where IRL no sane F1 driver would start a move, sure this is only a game, but frankly we players should be the ones doing the craziest stuff, not the AI drivers.

Concerning the last quote above, and "priorities" my thinking is as follows: All time that you put into car design, track design, driver and engine values etc will be in vain / obsolete once the game for the next season comes out. However, any time you invest into the AI behaviour will be 100% also for the upcoming iterations of the game. Thus, it strikes me that after so many years of F1 games the AI did not become better than it is, especially so because it "feels" (while playing) that there are some unintentional flaws / errors that would result in way better AI behaviour, if corrected.

Edited by Schneehase
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17 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Since the AI can bump into your car without any disadvantages (front spoiler indestructible,

AI cars do get damage from collisions. You'll see them pit very early in races sometimes.

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21 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Concerning the last quote above, and "priorities" my thinking is as follows: All time that you put into car design, track design, driver and engine values etc will be in vain / obsolete once the game for the next season comes out. However, any time you invest into the AI behaviour will be 100% also for the upcoming iterations of the game. Thus, it strikes me that after so many years of F1 games the AI did not become better than it is, especially so because it "feels" (while playing) that there are some unintentional flaws / errors that would result in way better AI behaviour, if corrected.

In case you think otherwise, I don't work for Codemasters.

When F1 2020 came out improvements to AI performance were actually one thing noted by many users, although possibly more for higher AI settings. Seeing the AI make mistakes was one aspect of this.

Edited by Ultra3142
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2 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

AI cars do get damage from collisions. You'll see them pit very early in races sometimes.

That is perfectly true of course, at least for severe collisions - though I have the impression that they do not suffer compareable damage the way you do, if you drive the "simulation" damage settings which i do all time. Would i bump into rears the way AI is doing it, I would pit 10 times a race. My understanding of "simulation damage" would be, that it affects all cars the same way, not only the players car. If it did, then AI would have to alter its driving style to avoid pitting all the time for damage, which is exactly what I would love to see happen in the game.

 

2 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

In case you think otherwise, I don't work for Codemasters.

 

Excuse my poor English, it is not my native, read "all time one puts into...". I did not really assume anyone here is an undercover agent^^

If I may add - do you sometimes suffer a poor start? I do often because I drive everything manually on harsh settings. Times, i loose the car during start and will get into an AI cars way unfortunately. When that happens, they do not back off or avoid contact like every F1 driver would do, instead they keep pushing you along the starting straight, they do not release the pedal, so that you have a hard time to break free from this unfortunate situation. They just continue to "drive through you" what is looking completely brainless and takes away a lot of the immersion from the game, at least for me. I bet everyone here on the forums has experienced this during their starts, and it is one of the AI behaviours I would love to see sorted out in the future (should become sorted out during playtesting before release in a perfect world). At least under simulation damage, avoiding contact should be one of the, if not the top priority on AIs behaviour list.

 

Edited by Schneehase
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8 hours ago, ICE95 said:

AI not aggressive people complain, AI aggressive people complain. 

People please make up your mind!

Aggressive AI mean's, aggressive race craft, especially with regards to defensive driving. It does not mean programming the AI to drive through the player's car at certain times.  

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44 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

That is perfectly true of course, at least for severe collisions - though I have the impression that they do not suffer compareable damage the way you do, if you drive the "simulation" damage settings which i do all time. Would i bump into rears the way AI is doing it, I would pit 10 times a race. My understanding of "simulation damage" would be, that it affects all cars the same way, not only the players car. If it did, then AI would have to alter its driving style to avoid pitting all the time for damage, which is exactly what I would love to see happen in the game.

I don't know how anyone can be certain but it is often said that AI have 'Full' damage even if you are on simulation damage. I stick to full damage myself for this reason and I know many others do too.

44 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Excuse my poor English, it is not my native, read "all time one puts into...". I did not really assume anyone here is an undercover agent^^

Please don't apologise. Your English is very good. My ability to communicate in any other language is poor by comparison.

44 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

If I may add - do you sometimes suffer a poor start? I do often because I drive everything manually on harsh settings. Times, i loose the car during start and will get into an AI cars way unfortunately. When that happens, they do not back off or avoid contact like every F1 driver would do, instead they keep pushing you along the starting straight, they do not release the pedal, so that you have a hard time to break free from this unfortunate situation. They just continue to "drive through you" what is looking completely brainless and takes away a lot of the immersion from the game, at least for me. I bet everyone here on the forums has experienced this during their starts, and it is one of the AI behaviours I would love to see sorted out in the future (should become sorted out during playtesting before release in a perfect world). At least under simulation damage, avoiding contact should be one of the, if not the top priority on AIs behaviour list.

Yes I have had bad starts where I have problems with AI running into me as a result. Starts are one area I still find tricky to judge following switching traction control off, plus I know AI generally get very good starts anyway.

I'm absolutely not saying the AI are perfect. I was just commenting that this is an area Codemasters have worked on rather than just ignoring it. I can also believe this may be very hard to get right. 

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On 3/29/2021 at 11:41 PM, Schneehase said:

the AI does not drive these cars like you would be forced to drive them in reality 

That's a bold statement, I don't think anyone here knows how to drive such cars unless they've driven one in real life.

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2 minutes ago, FTBuzzard said:

That's a bold statement, I don't think anyone here knows how to drive such cars unless they've driven one in real life.

I think you missed the point!!

Anyone who has watched the sport for a decent period of time, is likely aware of what the cars are and are not capable of.

If they are in fact capable of some of the moves that the AI pulls in game, then all the current real life drivers should be sacked for being useless at their craft.

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12 hours ago, FTBuzzard said:

That's a bold statement, I don't think anyone here knows how to drive such cars unless they've driven one in real life.

You are missing the point on purpose - that line you snipped from my post has nothing to do with how an F1 car drives, feels or breaks or anything like that. It was solely written in context with the AI having way, way too many contacts with other cars, which, IRL F1 racing, is something you will want to avoid at all costs, if you seek to be successful.

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On 4/2/2021 at 12:44 PM, Schneehase said:

You are missing the point on purpose - that line you snipped from my post has nothing to do with how an F1 car drives, feels or breaks or anything like that. It was solely written in context with the AI having way, way too many contacts with other cars, which, IRL F1 racing, is something you will want to avoid at all costs, if you seek to be successful.

Okay, fine, good point. but think about it.
Formula 1 is quite boring these days, there is hardly any overtaking because the cars have too much downforce despite the drs, and they drive in dirty air.
To be honest, I think it's okay to move away from realism and add a bit more fun, because it's a game after all. If you feel like you're chasing your opponent for 50+ laps because that's what you see on TV, then that's realistic, but I don't think it's fun anymore. 

I'm glad that it's not an ultra realistic simulation and that you still have the possibility to be surprised by the AI.
Formula 1 hardly offers this spectacle nowadays, because everything has been trimmed to perfection.

At its core, it's a video game designed to be fun, and realism isn't always fun.

Edited by FTBuzzard
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On 4/1/2021 at 12:29 AM, Ultra3142 said:

I've had this. 

Well ask a married man about AI / believe he will Quote the AI of F 1 2020 Perfect in comparison to his wife ......... 😎😂😂😎😂😎😂😎👍😂😎

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3 hours ago, FTBuzzard said:

Okay, fine, good point. but think about it.
Formula 1 is quite boring these days, there is hardly any overtaking because the cars have too much downforce despite the drs, and they drive in dirty air.
To be honest, I think it's okay to move away from realism and add a bit more fun, because it's a game after all. If you feel like you're chasing your opponent for 50+ laps because that's what you see on TV, then that's realistic, but I don't think it's fun anymore. 

I'm glad that it's not an ultra realistic simulation and that you still have the possibility to be surprised by the AI.
Formula 1 hardly offers this spectacle nowadays, because everything has been trimmed to perfection.

At its core, it's a video game designed to be fun, and realism isn't always fun.

Question is if you sacrifice any  realism that actually is in the game at the moment in pursuit of fun then at what point do you change the title of the game to 'Single seat racer GP Having a bit of a lark Edition' ,

Personally I think its time that all the people who don't want to play a game about Formula 1 which is quite obviously what the game IS about should go and find a game that is abit more fun and stop trying to turn a well established series about the actual real life sport called F1 into something else 
Formula 1 is actually about engineering and aerodynamics , its about Adrian Newey and the design team and its about a network of people making bucket loads of money , The drivers are the last part of the jigsaw , as Toto Wolff said " The driver is about 10% of the package". They are the actors in the final show that provides revenue . The FI part of the game is not the racing , it is the set ups page of everything from FFB settings to calibration settings to Car setups , its the weather forecast and the tyres its the pit stop strategy,  That's the game of F1 the racing part comes only from this  ,perhaps you would be better off playing the F2 part of the game it seems more to your liking , all the cars are equal and you just race , and all you have to do is open the rear wing when necessary as your tactical game.

 

Edited by Exasperated
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14 minutes ago, Exasperated said:

Question is if you sacrifice any  realism that actually is in the game at the moment in pursuit of fun then at what point do you change the title of the game to 'Single seat racer GP Having a bit of a lark Edition' ,

Personally I think its time that all the people who don't want to play a game about Formula 1 which is quite obviously what the game IS about should go and find a game that is abit more fun and stop trying to turn a well established series about the actual real life sport called F1 into something else 
Formula 1 is actually about engineering and aerodynamics , its about Adrian Newey and the design team and its about a network of people making bucket loads of money , The drivers are the last part of the jigsaw , as Toto Wolff said " The driver is about 10% of the package". They are the actors in the final show that provides revenue . The FI part of the game is not the racing , it is the set ups page of everything from FFB settings to calibration settings to Car setups , its the weather forecast and the tyres its the pit stop strategy,  That's the game of F1 the racing part comes only from this  ,perhaps you would be better off playing the F2 part of the game it seems more to your liking , all the cars are equal and you just race , and all you have to do is open the rear wing when necessary as your tactical game.

I am probably thinking along the same lines.

There are LOADS of arcade style racing games out there for those who want to play dodgems.

I want a game that mirrors real life as much as possible. Certainly in the offline mode.  

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On 3/29/2021 at 8:24 PM, tommyboyo said:

2020 game is all-round probably the best of the lot I would say (only missed one since first version in 2010).

 

However, stupidly aggressive AI really spoils it at times.

 

I only play off-line, so career/my team and I use a pad.  Amount of times faster AI just smashes you off the track is totally unrealistic. 

 

Practice - doesn't matter, they will punt you out the way, even on an out-lap. 

 

Quali the same and then the race itself can be a nightmare.  If they are faster, then they are coming through wherever they want and screw any realism!!

 

I love strong AI in terms of race pace and genuine overtakes, but fed up with being smashed off the track because they decide to try and pass in the most ridiculous and unrealistic places constantly.

Go to Mp 5 Race session - then you will love the AI in F1 2020 😎👍

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16 hours ago, FTBuzzard said:

At its core, it's a video game designed to be fun, and realism isn't always fun.

Off topic once again, you are describing an arcade game and if that is what people (not to say you) expect, then they better go play some - this is the official FIA Formula 1 game, and thus it should at least attempt to be somewhat realistic, at least in a way, that it does not end up in a stock car race (exaggerated that one on purpose).

And since I happen to be the only white hare here: Happy Easter all 😄

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