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Ray tracing confirmed for F1 2021

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The Steam page confirms ray tracing will be supported. 

Will be interesting to see which features this includes. Reflections? Shadows? Lighting?

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I'm no expert but I'm almost certain it won't be reflections, it's just not worth the performance hit for most in racing games, I'd be less surprised if it was raytraced ambient occlusion and shadows as its much more worth it on a genre where framerate tends to be more important than details.

Anyway, I'm happy to be proven wrong.

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Posted (edited)

It may not have it at all but if PC has it I would think consoles would also get it. The Series X is equivalent to about a 2080ti Apparently but I don't know about raytracing performance. Watchdog's legion manages it so I imagine f1 would also be able to on series x, even if you lose some framerate eg 120 -> 60 but I don't know and we won't until we get official confirmation.

Edit: just saw this

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/f1-2021/9n6j02vpg635?activetab=pivot:overviewtab , take a look under capabilities. It lists raytracing.

Edited by smalls048

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Going by other console games there will probably be a choice between a mode with ray tracing and one or probably two that prioritise performance (frame rate). For a racing game in particular I'd expect the overwhelming majority will choose the latter so ray tracing being included may end up being rather moot. Unless it's used in cut-scenes?

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A lot of cutscenes can be prebaked so I would imagine that it could be dynamically implemented so it is always active in cutscenes. I'm not a game developer I'm most likely wrong but that's what I think.

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I honestly don't see the point in a game like this, except for spectators. While racing just about noone will be able to notice it anyway. Considering the performance hit it will introduce I bet most will have it off anyway.

 

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I would rather have VR (Both Oculus and SteamVR) instead of raytracing. Especially if F1 2021 supports DLSS and if that can be used in VR too. A VR F1 experiance is something that is missing in the grand scheme of things. The level of immersion it provides, and the added level of information and other benifits to driving are just amazing.

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5 hours ago, smalls048 said:

I'm no expert but I'm almost certain it won't be reflections, it's just not worth the performance hit for most in racing games, I'd be less surprised if it was raytraced ambient occlusion and shadows as its much more worth it on a genre where framerate tends to be more important than details.

Anyway, I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Reflections probably have the lowest impact on performance of any RT feature, and they're also the most noticeable.

I think RT reflections and shadows would work well in this game.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, smalls048 said:

It may not have it at all but if PC has it I would think consoles would also get it. The Series X is equivalent to about a 2080ti Apparently but I don't know about raytracing performance. Watchdog's legion manages it so I imagine f1 would also be able to on series x, even if you lose some framerate eg 120 -> 60 but I don't know and we won't until we get official confirmation.

Edit: just saw this

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/f1-2021/9n6j02vpg635?activetab=pivot:overviewtab , take a look under capabilities. It lists raytracing.

The Series X is absolutely not equivalent to a 2080 Ti. In rasterization, it's closer to a 2070S, and in ray tracing, it's around a 2060. Whereas the PS5 is around a 2060S/2070 in rasterization, and around a 2060 in ray tracing performance. So both next gen consoles have very poor RT capabilities.

Having said that, they will probably have some sort of ray tracing. What usually happens on these consoles in games that have ray tracing is that the ray tracing quality setting is set well below the lowest PC setting.

Edited by HDR10

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1 hour ago, Lakrits said:

I honestly don't see the point in a game like this, except for spectators. While racing just about noone will be able to notice it anyway. Considering the performance hit it will introduce I bet most will have it off anyway.

 

Luckily, on PC we will also have DLSS, which will negate most, or maybe even all, of the performance hit.

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2 hours ago, HDR10 said:

Luckily, on PC we will also have DLSS, which will negate most, or maybe even all, of the performance hit.

First of all, not all PC's will have DLSS. Does the game even support that, or will support it?

I know, AMD is working on their own version, but the game will still have to support it.

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5 minutes ago, Lakrits said:

First of all, not all PC's will have DLSS. Does the game even support that, or will support it?

I know, AMD is working on their own version, but the game will still have to support it.

F1 2020 supported. I'm confident F1 2021 will too.

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2 minutes ago, HDR10 said:

F1 2020 supported. I'm confident F1 2021 will too.

Ok, I have no idea since I don't have an nvidia card.

 

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3 hours ago, HDR10 said:

Reflections probably have the lowest impact on performance of any RT feature, and they're also the most noticeable.

I think RT reflections and shadows would work well in this game.

I'm sorry to say I don't believe this is quite true. I believe COD BOCW went with raytraced shadows because it had a lower performance cost. But I wasn't sure so I did a bit of research.

I believe the most effective method of raytracing depends on the environment and though I've struggled to find a simple comparison between the performance of all the types, I think the performance hit from shadows and reflections is roughly the same (though I remember hearing something from Digital foundry saying that COD BOCW chose shadows cause it uses less performance). If this is the case i'd love to see raytraced lighting in night races as I think this is where the games struggle most and if possible combined with reflections though most of (if not all) the night races are in deserts and puddles seem to be where RTX reflections look best.

But if you ask me a better shading of the entire game that looks more realistic would improve the visuals far more than any of this and I would rather they got that right before focussing on RTX.

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1 hour ago, smalls048 said:

I'm sorry to say I don't believe this is quite true. I believe COD BOCW went with raytraced shadows because it had a lower performance cost. But I wasn't sure so I did a bit of research.

I believe the most effective method of raytracing depends on the environment and though I've struggled to find a simple comparison between the performance of all the types, I think the performance hit from shadows and reflections is roughly the same (though I remember hearing something from Digital foundry saying that COD BOCW chose shadows cause it uses less performance). If this is the case i'd love to see raytraced lighting in night races as I think this is where the games struggle most and if possible combined with reflections though most of (if not all) the night races are in deserts and puddles seem to be where RTX reflections look best.

But if you ask me a better shading of the entire game that looks more realistic would improve the visuals far more than any of this and I would rather they got that right before focussing on RTX.

It depends on the game. The COD games are just generally well optimized.

In Cyberpunk, for example, Digital Foundry recommended using ray traced reflections but turning off ray traced shadows in their optimized settings to maintain performance.

 

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Cyberpunk is probably the worst example when it comes to raytracing. To begin with it's a very performance intensive game and raytracying makes it extremely demanding, even at it's lowest settings.

My view is that if a game won't be playable without something like DLSS it's not worth paying for. Sadly enough I'm afraid game creators will start to rely on it soon enough.

 

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With the current availability and prices of last generation GPUs we might not be able to get to see these raytracing features at all. My 2070 super already has trouble to render the game in 3440*1440@100fps and encode this for streaming the same time, without raytracing. Bet you would need more than double the GPU power to lift that in addition.

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Steams recommended specs are a 3060, Nvidia really made a step up in the ray tracing acceleration the cards were capable of which combined with the normal increase in performance with dlss I think it maybe achievable. Not speaking for myself here my 1660 super will definitely not capable. But given that people have the power it will be a nice feature. That being said buying a new gpu to play this game definitely won’t be an option seeing as I can sell my card now for more than I bought it for a year or 2 ago.

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8 hours ago, Schneehase said:

With the current availability and prices of last generation GPUs we might not be able to get to see these raytracing features at all. My 2070 super already has trouble to render the game in 3440*1440@100fps and encode this for streaming the same time, without raytracing. Bet you would need more than double the GPU power to lift that in addition.

Are you using DLSS?

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, HDR10 said:

Are you using DLSS?

Actually I did not even have to, prior to the latest driver updates from NVidia. I ran nearly 100 fps without. Even with DLSS on now, i cant reach 90 fps consistently. Something significant must have changed, and its not the F1 2020 game. Since I run a seperate PC only for simracing, I dont suppose it is windows either, though that might still be the case if one of the latest updates had any performance impact.

Edit - Gotta add, there still is potential in overclocking my CPU and GPU, but I did not have to during the last year. I would say my recent performance drop was about 10% minus in frames. It seems like NVidia drivers would "ensure" that older cards dont have too much performance versus their newer models released, however I am yet to test this with an older driver version.

In any case, the point still stands that most of us will never benefit from raytracing in the F1 2021 game, unless we spend between 1.700,- and 2.500,- Euros for a new GPU. While I am not the poorest person on the planet, I can exclude this for me personally, I wont spend so much only to run a new graphics feature in a PC game. There is a point when too much becomes too much, no matter if you could afford it or not.

Edited by Schneehase

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15 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Actually I did not even have to, prior to the latest driver updates from NVidia. I ran nearly 100 fps without. Even with DLSS on now, i cant reach 90 fps consistently. Something significant must have changed, and its not the F1 2020 game. Since I run a seperate PC only for simracing, I dont suppose it is windows either, though that might still be the case if one of the latest updates had any performance impact.

Edit - Gotta add, there still is potential in overclocking my CPU and GPU, but I did not have to during the last year. I would say my recent performance drop was about 10% minus in frames. It seems like NVidia drivers would "ensure" that older cards dont have too much performance versus their newer models released, however I am yet to test this with an older driver version.

In any case, the point still stands that most of us will never benefit from raytracing in the F1 2021 game, unless we spend between 1.700,- and 2.500,- Euros for a new GPU. While I am not the poorest person on the planet, I can exclude this for me personally, I wont spend so much only to run a new graphics feature in a PC game. There is a point when too much becomes too much, no matter if you could afford it or not.

Not sure why you're experiencing a performance drop on the latest drivers, but I haven't experienced that at all.

I also disagree about the ray tracing comment. I think with DLSS even those on a 2060 will be able to get 60fps at max settings at 1440p. Keep in mind that 60fps will be enough for most people. Those with better cards should see even better performance. 

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On 4/18/2021 at 3:45 PM, Schneehase said:

Actually I did not even have to, prior to the latest driver updates from NVidia. I ran nearly 100 fps without. Even with DLSS on now, i cant reach 90 fps consistently. Something significant must have changed, and its not the F1 2020 game. Since I run a seperate PC only for simracing, I dont suppose it is windows either, though that might still be the case if one of the latest updates had any performance impact.

Edit - Gotta add, there still is potential in overclocking my CPU and GPU, but I did not have to during the last year. I would say my recent performance drop was about 10% minus in frames. It seems like NVidia drivers would "ensure" that older cards dont have too much performance versus their newer models released, however I am yet to test this with an older driver version.

In any case, the point still stands that most of us will never benefit from raytracing in the F1 2021 game, unless we spend between 1.700,- and 2.500,- Euros for a new GPU. While I am not the poorest person on the planet, I can exclude this for me personally, I wont spend so much only to run a new graphics feature in a PC game. There is a point when too much becomes too much, no matter if you could afford it or not.

If you updated Windows, this may be your issue: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-update-bsod-frame-rate-plummeting

The update from last week is causing performance degradation for some people.

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On 4/16/2021 at 4:34 AM, HDR10 said:

The Steam page confirms ray tracing will be supported. 

Will be interesting to see which features this includes. Reflections? Shadows? Lighting?

Will remain switched off ......

 

 

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