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physics/tyres in reality

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Posted (edited)

How is it with the grip of rain tires on dry in reality?

I once heard that newcomers always get rain tyres at practice drives because they can't get the slicks up to temperature.
From this I conclude that the grip of rain tires is good even without water. Probably much better than their grip on wet?

Would that be the right ranking?

1. soft tyres on dry
2. hard tyres on dry
3. rain tyres on dry
4. rain tyres on wet
5. soft tyres on wet
6. hard tyres on wet

Or are rain tyres better than hard tyres on dry surfaces? (What effect does ambient temperature have on this?)

How much faster do rain tyres wear on dry surfaces compared to soft tyres?

Edited by PaulNbg

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Yeah, I would like to know that, too.

My assumption is:

1. soft tyres on dry
2. medium tyres on dry
3. hard tyres on dry
4. rain tyres on dry
5. rain tyres on wet
6. soft tyres on wet
7. medium tyres on wet
8. hard tyres on wet

My logic says, if rain tyres have the best grip on wet of all tyres, they of course must be also pretty good on dry, because dry surface creates more grip naturally.
But I don't believe they are better than hard tyres, because these are made for dry surfaces.

In formula 1 the intermidiates and full wets wear out very quick if it gets dry, so I believe this happens in rally, too.


In the game, though, the tyres don't wear out extremely.
You can do a 12-long-stage event on wets without a single service area and the car is still drivable.
I believe the game just has 3 stages of tyre degredation: new, used and weared out.
And in the last stage, the tyres, any tyre, has just much less grip, but doesn't get more worse over time.

The difference between hards and wets on dry tarmac doesn't seem to be very big either.

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Posted (edited)

Let's take the following example in reality

If you had to decide one day in advance/before, and for the next rally stage (8km) there was a 50% chance of rain (from the start of the race), which tyres would you rather choose?

Because I've claimed earlier loudmouthed that it should be the rain tires. But now I wonder if I have to revise that.
Dry tyres also have some profile, they are not slicks. With ordinary wetness, they are perhaps still reasonably clear? On the other hand, it is only a short stage and for rain tyres also on dry well doable?

And if the right choice is the rain tires, then the question: which choice would be the right one if the probability of rain is only 40%? Or only 30%?

Edited by PaulNbg

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In principle, one could also formulate it differently: 5km of the track is dry, another 5km completely wet. But I think rain tyres are the better choice. I also forgot to take into account that soft tyres get too little temperature in the rain and are therefore not so good for wet conditions.
I guess that with 7 km of dry track and 3 km of wet track, the choice will be difficult in reality.

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How slippery is the snow/ice in Monte Carlo?

LOEB onboard Rallye Monte-Carlo, minute 9:23

I ask myself, which tyres could these be?

Dirt Rally 2.0 seems to be very realistic in any case.

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minute 5:50 - rear soft tyres, front hard tyres
https://www.redbull.com/int-en/live/fia-world-rally-championship-2021-croatia-saturday-highlights


It is possible that a driver chooses different tires for the front and rear. But the reason was not revealed.
I always did that in Project Cars 2, soft in the rear and medium in the front, to get the sudden oversteer under control. Conversely, of course, understeer can also be quickly fixed with it. More games should therefore offer this in the setup menu.
 

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TL:DR, 

anyway, from experience Rain Tyres are good on the Dry if the stage is small. The compound is even softer than softer tyres, so good grip from the get-go, however, due to the sides being too soft too, what usually happens is that you overheat the tyres very quickly especially in FWD cars. 

The medium, soft and hard compounds have more or less the same grip levels. Usually, it depends on the stage. If you do have big stages a hard tyre is required because they don't wear as much as a softer tyre. But when you have the tyres on the right temperature grip levels are the same for soft, medium and hard. The softer the compound the faster they get to temperature and the faster they wear.

 

Don't try to use the hard compound in the rain, even the soft tyre has to have crazy tyre pressures to work properly. With the hards you'll probably don't get them to temperature and you'll end up crashing due to aquaplaning.

 

The rain tyres can be used in FWD in the rear axle, in small stages as they are up to temp faster than a soft tyre.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/25/2021 at 8:39 PM, UnderclassGDfan said:


In the game, though, the tyres don't wear out extremely.
You can do a 12-long-stage event on wets without a single service area and the car is still drivable.
I believe the game just has 3 stages of tyre degredation: new, used and weared out.
And in the last stage, the tyres, any tyre, has just much less grip, but doesn't get more worse over time.

The difference between hards and wets on dry tarmac doesn't seem to be very big either.

yes true ,i hope for dirt rally 3 the game have better strategy of tyre

Edited by gk9147
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I've been actually looking at this using data recently and I'll post some of my results (and fancy data!) when I get the chance.

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