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WET TRACK CONDITION (e.g. IMOLA 2021)


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1 hour ago, Chromatic said:

 

I agree that weather dynamic is difficult it has been done before with localized weather on F1 2012 Paul Jeal explained it at the time problem is it's on the last gen engine. Not the current one right now.   

 

Thanks for that @Chromatic I played F1 2012 often and I loved the local weather system which was great to have. That's why I'm talking about the predictable races during different weather conditions in F1 2020 because it's not longer in the game. Would be good to know why Codemasters changed that system @BarryBL, although the new game engine should have more power to make a step forward. The issue comes up again, especially after Imola when it stopped raining around lap 5, then the drivers had to manage their Inters (cool down in puddles), a dry racing line formed around lap 20, drivers changed their Inters to dry tyres but the track wasn't completely dry. And this should be the challenge for sim drivers. To be able to adjust how fast the track should dry off. Under realistic conditions it can't be that the track is completely dry after around 5 laps in a 100% race. Realistically, there must still be wet surfaces and puddles that dry off very slowly.

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On 4/29/2021 at 12:41 AM, Lakrits said:

Weather dynamics is incredibly difficult, especially if you want differences around the track. Coding something like that is so complex that it's not gonna happen anytime soon. The situation with spray is probably a choise, but do remember that what you see on TV is not what the driver is seeing. Imagine an unranked race with that kind of spray, noone will survive the first corner.

 

Dynamic weather, localize weather, and drying tracks are very basic features, that's being around since 2001 in the GP4 F1 game.

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Ye F1 2012 had best weather of all codies F1s.Same for marbles out of ideal line.Dont understand why they downgraded it.

EDIT: Watched that video of 2012 lol that weather looks insanely better than last games.

Edited by Neomo
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On 4/29/2021 at 10:42 AM, Exasperated said:

WT .......Wet weather conditions on a race track is difficult IRL , isn't the general idea of playing the game of F1 to have the challenges of the real events to deal with in the game , its not going to be exactly how it would be in real life for obvious reasons but in the game called F1 that I am playing the rain effects are mind blowingly  good both visually and the loss of grip effects for game.

People who play the game need to step up to the plate or go and play Grid or some other less challenging game , a lot of people who are struggling in the wet in game  more than they should ; probably have poor set ups of both their car and their FFB settings aren't giving them enough grip and/ or their throttle is set too lively in its response. Set ups are everything IRL F1 and so they are in the game , that is what makes this game F1 , if you are not making setups in all possible tuning  areas to overcome problems at a racetrack then you might as well go and play a pure Arcade racer.

Relax man, this isn't a simulator, the whole point of the game is so not only wannabe racers but fans of the sport can enjoy feeling as close to a part of it as possible in video game form. 

If you want a simulator, and boy do you, you'll have to cough up a fair whack more than £60. 

Do agree that the rain effects are pretty damn good at this point in the game though, they really nailed that across genres this gen. 

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Posted (edited)
Just now, KNT2011 said:

Relax man, this isn't a simulator, the whole point of the game is so not only wannabe racers but fans of the sport can enjoy feeling as close to a part of it as possible in video game form. 

If you want a simulator, and boy do you, you'll have to cough up a fair whack more than £60. 

Do agree that the rain effects are pretty damn good at this point in the game though, they really nailed that across genres this gen. 

Dude you don't really think that I am serious about this , the game is a game, alot of it doesn't even work properly ( That doesn't bother me at all because its not being taken seriously as a simulation any way) When you are driving along minding your own business in a race you get wacked by another car from behind and you get a penalty .... or you are on the last lap of an hour and half race and you get shunted off the track by the AI  , what's the point of it being anything , I just use the game, have my fun and that's it . The complaints about the game not working properly are endless . When it is working its stunning , when its not that's just unfortunate. .......Its just a game.

You are right I do want a version of it to be a hard core simulation and leave the other version for the people who want a soft core arcadeulation. (Two separate games should be available from code masters ), its not like they haven't got the money to do it.

You must of missed a few of my posts where I  already mentioned that the simulation version would be very expensive ( F. obviously) to those that wanted it , perhaps it may retail at £1000 to £2000 or more but if people wanted something serious then they would pay it , it wouldn't be a big deal for them they already spend on Fanatec ,  Heusingfelderingturnipveld  and Leo Bodner gear at big money so they wouldn't even blink.

Very entertaining listening to all the in depth conversations about realism in the game knowing that people then drive in that view or some other Frankenstein version of cockpit view. Its a farce but then again most things in life are.  20 cars on a grid and in the same race but there are three races going on in that one race because all the cars are not equal and the real reason for the race/races taking place  has nothing to do with racing.

Enjoy yourself treat yourself to a wheel and get in the cockpit you wont regret it .....driving in cockpit view isn't hard because of stereo scopic this or lack of peripheral vision or any other nonsense excuses its obviously the natural place that the driver should be........... give it a try what does it matter if it doesn't give a real representation of the view from a cockpit it doesn't matter as it is not a simulation its just a game, and one that doesn't work very well as can be seen reading through the various posts on here.  What does work is absolutely amazing .

Have some fun. Regards

 

 

Edited by Exasperated
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I mean no game/ sim has really got realistic wet weather driving yet, and the best atm is probably ACC (yet to actually try out AMS2) so maybe when codies uses the new engine they can hopefully have the best wet weather driving, imo it would bring a fair bit more attention to the game 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, DylanWest42 said:

I mean no game/ sim has really got realistic wet weather driving yet, and the best atm is probably ACC (yet to actually try out AMS2) so maybe when codies uses the new engine they can hopefully have the best wet weather driving, imo it would bring a fair bit more attention to the game 

Do you use T-Cam or Do you use cockpit cam?

When you say no game has got realistic wet weather driving yet are you comparing it to driving a van on a motorway or racing an F1 car at 150 mph on one of the real  tracks used in the F1 GP's ?

I'm not being funny or anything I'm just quite confused that what I am experiencing when I race in very wet conditions just doesn't compare to what other people say they are getting.

Edited by Exasperated
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2 hours ago, Exasperated said:

Do you use T-Cam or Do you use cockpit cam?

When you say no game has got realistic wet weather driving yet are you comparing it to driving a van on a motorway or racing an F1 car at 150 mph on one of the real  tracks used in the F1 GP's ?

I'm not being funny or anything I'm just quite confused that what I am experiencing when I race in very wet conditions just doesn't compare to what other people say they are getting.

i was talking about the physics side, like actually using the wet line, going into water to cool the tyres e.t.c. i feel that needs to be implemented properly into the game as personally it could be better, when i play ACC in the wet it feels immersive when i have to go into the puddles to cool the tyres and the f1 games should follow suit imo

anyway i use T-Cam purely because i am faster and feel more comfortable using it, and i also have dry and wet setups for all tracks which very much helps in the wet and i don’t typically struggle loads in the wet (at some tracks i do and the transition periods make the ai op sometimes) and i think making wet racing more true to real life will make it harder and more enjoyable. but no way should codies make a sim version thats just stupid 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DylanWest42 said:

i was talking about the physics side, like actually using the wet line, going into water to cool the tyres e.t.c. i feel that needs to be implemented properly into the game as personally it could be better, when i play ACC in the wet it feels immersive when i have to go into the puddles to cool the tyres and the f1 games should follow suit imo

anyway i use T-Cam purely because i am faster and feel more comfortable using it, and i also have dry and wet setups for all tracks which very much helps in the wet and i don’t typically struggle loads in the wet (at some tracks i do and the transition periods make the ai op sometimes) and i think making wet racing more true to real life will make it harder and more enjoyable. but no way should codies make a sim version thats just stupid 

You want the physics of the tyres sorted and implemented properly into the game because it feels immersive when you need to go into puddles to cool the tyres  and you drive in T-Cam because you are faster in T-Cam and wet racing  feels more true to real life (whatever that is like because probably 99.% of us have never driven an F1 car at 150MPH in the wet) but the Codesters should not make a Sim version as it would be stupid . I think you are the perfect example of a player of the F1 games and the  reason why the game has Jockey outfits in an in game shop.    Going back to the OP showing pictures of the wet conditions in a race that he thinks would be a great edition to the game ,,all I would say to people is as an example go to the Grand'rix part of the game and select the Spa Francochamps circuit  and 'Very wet' conditions' at a reasonable AI level for your standard of driving in the wet and choose a mid field car and drive in Cockpit View set at the in game defaults with 15 degrees of look to apex added  just for the for the purposes of this test and then qualify around 10th place on the grid . If you now race and  keep up with the pack then you should (NOT) be able to see why I cannot understand people that are saying  the wet weather conditions in game need to be more like they are in real life .

Enjoy shopping for your 'snappy duds'

 

Edited by Exasperated
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40 minutes ago, Exasperated said:

You want the physics of the tyres sorted and implemented properly into the game because it feels immersive when you need to go into puddles to cool the tyres  and you drive in T-Cam because you are faster in T-Cam and wet racing  feels more true to real life (whatever that is like because probably 99.% of us have never driven an F1 car at 150MPH in the wet) but the Codesters should not make a Sim version as it would be stupid . I think you are the perfect example of a player of the F1 games and the  reason why the game has Jockey outfits in an in game shop.    Going back to the OP showing pictures of the wet conditions in a race that he thinks would be a great edition to the game ,,all I would say to people is as an example go to the Grand'rix part of the game and select the Spa Francochamps circuit  and 'Very wet' conditions' at a reasonable AI level for your standard of driving in the wet and choose a mid field car and drive in Cockpit View set at the in game defaults  just for the for the purposes of this test and then qualify around 10th place on the grid . If you now race and  keep up with the pack then you should (NOT) be able to see why I cannot understand people that are saying  the wet weather conditions in game need to be more like they are in real life .

Enjoy shopping for your 'snappy duds'

 

No they should not make a sim version imo, especially if you’re saying the retail price would be £1000 upwards as i doubt they would actually make profit from that, it would just be restricting a whole load of the fanbase as many people would not be able to afford that.

and why would they not make the wet racing more realistic and better? i don’t understand why you are so opposed to having better wet conditions?

and i also don’t understand why you are opposed to people using T-Cam over the cockpit view?

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There is a visible dry and wet line in F1 2020. Are people saying this is visual only and it doesn't have any effect on grip? I've always assumed it made a difference but I've never tried to test it, and it hasn't been immediately obvious at my (limited) skill-level. Partly as when I end up off the dry line there are other differences from a more ideal lap at play as well.

@Exasperated the view anybody races with has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in this thread. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, DylanWest42 said:

No they should not make a sim version imo, especially if you’re saying the retail price would be £1000 upwards as i doubt they would actually make profit from that, it would just be restricting a whole load of the fanbase as many people would not be able to afford that.

and why would they not make the wet racing more realistic and better? i don’t understand why you are so opposed to having better wet conditions?

and i also don’t understand why you are opposed to people using T-Cam over the cockpit view?

Every time I mention A hard core sim version I speak of 2 versions of the game  1 (one) that is like the version already available with what the general populace wants a game that is dabbling in F1  with people who want extreme realism in the game but if its causing them a problem then they want that to be thrown out because its just a game ,,their excuse for not having to confront the fact that they are bailing on making the effort to deal with things   This version of the  game ( Version ONE for gamers )costs the usual £70 - £100 or whatever . That's the game for 'Gamers'  that is your game its in your budget plus you get what you want a mix of arcade , children content and whatever nonsense people want , OK that's you taken care of

The other game is a second version that is made using all the content from the main game but minus the rubbish like pit pass and piffle stories about Bevan Duller or whatever ,,this 2ND (SECOND version) is developed for SIM RACERS and has all the things that you need if you actually give a XXXX in order that you are involved in something that relates to F1.  If this was undertaken it would require a dedicated team outside of the normal situation and those employees wages to do this exftra work would have to be paid for by charging the customer  extra for the finished product.  This is not made for YOU if you cannot afford it or do not want to buy a hard core sim. In the same way that Fanatec Podium Direct Drive  wheelbases  are made for people who want and can afford them.

I hope this clears up your mis understanding

Re: Driving in Replay spectator Cam , what does it matter what I think , drive it in 'Chase Cam' if you want or sat on the front wing  The fact that  I think its a slackers thing to do and is ridiculous is just my opinion like your opinion about the game needing better wet weather driving physics or whatever else.

The more people there are that drive in cockpit view the greater the chance the game has of getting VR .........getting any connections ?

"Its not a Sim its a game , Stop saying that , its just a game .........its just a game "

where you got the idea from that I am against the in game wet weather driving model being improved is beyond me when I have made it clear that I want the game to be a hard core sim , how does that work.

 

 

Edited by Exasperated
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

There is a visible dry and wet line in F1 2020. Are people saying this is visual only and it doesn't have any effect on grip? I've always assumed it made a difference but I've never tried to test it, and it hasn't been immediately obvious at my (limited) skill-level. Partly as when I end up off the dry line there are other differences from a more ideal lap at play as well.

@Exasperated the view anybody races with has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in this thread. 

This whole game can be different depending on which  settings you are using ( In Project cars 2 you can tune your car by changing the position of the head cam back forward and up and down) and if you do a lot of experimenting in the F1 games you will notice quirky effects by slight changes in camera views etc ,  , what you see as rain effects from T- Cam is going to be different than in Cockpit view as the camera is looking at the effects from a different height.  I am referring to the visual effect part of the OPs comment Dylan West is talking about the physics of driving on a wet track two different things.

 

Edited by Exasperated
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

There is a visible dry and wet line in F1 2020. Are people saying this is visual only and it doesn't have any effect on grip? I've always assumed it made a difference but I've never tried to test it, and it hasn't been immediately obvious at my (limited) skill-level. Partly as when I end up off the dry line there are other differences from a more ideal lap at play as well.

@Exasperated the view anybody races with has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in this thread. 

Regarding camera views by changing FOV settings you can make the corners of the track easier or more difficult to get through or you can make the track appear wider or narrower longer or shorter. The view that anybody races in has absolutely everything to do with visual elements of the game and physical to ,but  I don't expect you to understand this    As an example I raced the Alfa Romeo at Barcelona the other day after the video of Jarno Opmeer was put up Cockpit view race Last to First place over 5 laps . My version of the same thing against the AI  In Cockpit view I managed to do it but I only managed to take First place just before the final Chicane of the 5th lap and was almost demoted to 2nd place.  by comparison while driving using T- Cam I was in First place at the end of the 4th lap and easily drove round the 5th lap  at the front and finished with a very comfortable margin . So you see what camera settings you use can greatly affect things in the game

Edited by Exasperated
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Posted (edited)

An  extra belt and braces approach is needed as always , Just to clarify that when I mentioned the visual effects of rain in the game ,I mean obviously  water spray kicked up by grooved tyres and causing fog like conditions , visually this relates to the OP saying that he does not think that these effects in the F1 game are very strong and that the player can see too easily in wet conditions  , In my experience this is not the case , I gave an example of a race that I just did recently so that people could try it and then see it for themselves . I personally played in a game with those selections at Spa and  Could barely see the rain lights of cars in front of me and could not see the edges of the track because the spray effects were so dense the only reason I could drive round the track when in close proximity to groups of other cars was because I know it like the back of my hand after having completed 1000's of laps there over the years.

Try it you probably wo'nt like it.

Edited by Exasperated
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Exasperated said:

You want the physics of the tyres sorted and implemented properly into the game because it feels immersive when you need to go into puddles to cool the tyres  and you drive in T-Cam because you are faster in T-Cam and wet racing  feels more true to real life (whatever that is like because probably 99.% of us have never driven an F1 car at 150MPH in the wet) but the Codesters should not make a Sim version as it would be stupid . I think you are the perfect example of a player of the F1 games and the  reason why the game has Jockey outfits in an in game shop.    Going back to the OP showing pictures of the wet conditions in a race that he thinks would be a great edition to the game ,,all I would say to people is as an example go to the Grand'rix part of the game and select the Spa Francochamps circuit  and 'Very wet' conditions' at a reasonable AI level for your standard of driving in the wet and choose a mid field car and drive in Cockpit View set at the in game defaults with 15 degrees of look to apex added  just for the for the purposes of this test and then qualify around 10th place on the grid . If you now race and  keep up with the pack then you should (NOT) be able to see why I cannot understand people that are saying  the wet weather conditions in game need to be more like they are in real life .

Enjoy shopping for your 'snappy duds'

 

And whats that test mean? Wet conditions in game are far more difficult than real life for few simple reasons. First and very simple u cant feel car. Secondly in real cars they have totally different throttle and engine maping for wet, less agressive than dry and finally…most ppl play on one monitor and sitting meter away so they see nothing a have zero sense of speed bcs of fairy tail fov

Edited by Neomo
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Neomo said:

And whats that test mean? Wet conditions in game are far more difficult than real life for few simple reasons. First and very simple u cant feel car. Secondly in real cars they have totally different throttle and engine maping for wet, less agressive than dry and finally…most ppl play on one monitor and sitting meter away so they see nothing a have zero sense of speed bcs of fairy tail fov

In the context of me asking the question of why people think the weather effects in the code masters F1 game do not give the same LACK of visibility as the OP suggests that real life F1 races do in his post and then supports this by showing pictures of a real life wet race  ( Forget about car handling physics I'm not really talking about that ). It is very simple I raced in very wet conditions in game  at SPA and the in game representation of wet weather to  my mind  gave a very good representation visually of the semi opaque mist that forms in the air when tyres throw off water on a wet surface . The specific information I put up about going to Spa and the specific selections of car and the chosen view were so that any one who was interested could actually replicate what I had based my opinion on and see for themselves what I had experienced and why I have made the comments that I have made. Its just giving a reference point that is all that it is , try it don't try  it , whatever.

Your point about engine mapping etc relates to the physical aspects of driving the car and  that is not what I am referring to . The single monitor point that you make about , distance from screen and unrealistic FOV are not really relevant to if you are seeing rain effects or not ( this may not be the case if you are in another camera view other than the cockpit view because of the cameras position in relation to the effects), no matter what the set up of your screen is in terms of the distance you are from it is and also the missing reality such as stereoscoping or other ocular information  that is missing from the in game images you  will either see an effect of heavy mist or not ,  the lack of effect of speed etc is just an unfortunate occurrence due to the restrictions of a particular set up.

Anyway the only way you will have of making an opinion for yourself of if the weather effects in game are any good in the way that I have suggested that I think they are will be to try the set up that I put up and see for yourself. I'm not looking for you to agree that what I say is correct or you to  like my content or whatever , this is just a pass time for me in between Races. Regards. And remember ....this is not a simulation , Its just a game and with that in mind the wet weather driving effects are amazingly good , but if you want really amazing wet weather go drive sweet lamb in Dirt rally in the rain and drive through some water , but make sure you have your wipers on.

 

Edited by Exasperated
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In terms of graphics 2020 spreay effect looks ok but the way how track drying and how it looks and whole wather system is miles ahead in 2012

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13 hours ago, Exasperated said:

This whole game can be different depending on which  settings you are using ( In Project cars 2 you can tune your car by changing the position of the head cam back forward and up and down) and if you do a lot of experimenting in the F1 games you will notice quirky effects by slight changes in camera views etc ,  , what you see as rain effects from T- Cam is going to be different than in Cockpit view as the camera is looking at the effects from a different height.  I am referring to the visual effect part of the OPs comment Dylan West is talking about the physics of driving on a wet track two different things.

 

This thread isn't about PC2. Unless changing camera view alters the spray effect on screen to obscure your view, or changes the grip levels, camera settings are irrelevant. If we could try to keep this thread on topic it would be much more interesting, and easier to follow. 

Out of interest, does anyone know the answer to my question about whether the in-game dry-line is purely visual or if grip levels change?

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7 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

This thread isn't about PC2. Unless changing camera view alters the spray effect on screen to obscure your view, or changes the grip levels, camera settings are irrelevant. If we could try to keep this thread on topic it would be much more interesting, and easier to follow. 

Out of interest, does anyone know the answer to my question about whether the in-game dry-line is purely visual or if grip levels change?

I've got the answer for you , go and test it yourself and you will find out , someone else's  opinion of that is not as good as you doing it and knowing yourself , theories  and hypothetical thoughts are all well and good but there is nothing like first hand knowledge of a subject.

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1 minute ago, Exasperated said:

I've got the answer for you , go and test it yourself and you will find out , someone else's  opinion of that is not as good as you doing it and knowing yourself , theories  and hypothetical thoughts are all well and good but there is nothing like first hand knowledge of a subject.

Somebody may know the facts of how the game models it, and I also thought some of the comments above may have been referring to it being known that the game didn't do so. 

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Thinking about it I realise I don't know if the game models grip differently on vs off the racing line in dry conditions either. 

The wet situation is complicated by the dry racing line not necessarily being fastest in the wet too. This isn't a simple thing to get 'right' in the game.

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