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Esport ready - worst league racing experience ever.​ 🤬​


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10 hours ago, shion13 said:

Everyone knows that it isnt a bug. 

This is all about Codemasters using servers instead of p2p connections. If companies like kudos or psyonix can afford servers, codemasters / EA should be able too as well. 

I replied to you earlier about this. Even if Codemasters would use dedicated servers, they could tie the game to the Steamworks' networking API, because the API gives neat features that can be used in various ways

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On 5/25/2021 at 9:10 PM, UP100 said:

There is no bug here. The game receives an error from the dependency (that's either caused by the user's machine or by Steam's servers being unresponsive) and then it'll do its best to keep running. This is how basically every single game works (though some games may treat all errors as fatal)

If the game would continue to try and send information to the other clients after you've lost connection to Steam, it will most likely cause bugs, which is something you don't want either 🙂

With ' there is no bug here'  i hope you mean with dropping from the lobby when losing connection to steam and not with the game in general.. because there aren't a lot of game with more bugs and issues than this one.

But It doesn't matter if this is a bug or not according to your definition. The system (Bugged or not) is flawed and unreliable. The exchange of information between clients is flawed and unreliable. there's countless examples of why this p2p system and not investing in actual servers is the wrong way to go. Online racing in this game is in a very, very bad state with it being almost entirely impossible to go through a longer race without encountering game breaking issues. 

The fact that the game drops you might be designed like that by the devs, but it is bad and flawed design, that hurts the experience and as such, still very much a problem. 

The next game needs significant improvements in this regard because the way it's now, this game is the laughing stock of online racing and a clear example for every other developer on how NOT to design your multiplayer. 

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On 5/26/2021 at 10:05 AM, shion13 said:

Everyone knows that it isnt a bug. 

This is all about Codemasters using servers instead of p2p connections. If companies like kudos or psyonix can afford servers, codemasters / EA should be able too as well. 

You're talking about companies that want to create a good game. Codemasters just wants to make money, as can be clearly seen from this 1 title a year aproach. 
Psyonix was so sure their game was good they litteraly gave it away for free when it just came out. just to show it off.  and now so many people play it they can live from microtransactions. 

There is no bigger disparaty in gaming than between games like sea of thieves/rocket league. that put gameplay first, keep developing the game and making it better all the time, 

And companies like codemasters that are clearly just in it for the money and milking franchises to death. They COULD have done something good with this series and make sure they have a good foundation to build on. But they choose to just release the same game with minimal changes and more bugs every year for full price. 

Personally i think it has more longevity to make sure you have a healthy playerbase and a working game that people come back to every time, and you as a dev can build on, improve on, and make better all the time. But the hell do i know. 

All i know is codemasters not investing time and effort in the multiplayer is hurting the games potential tremendously, and it could have been doing a lot better. 
But again, if you're just interested in cold hard cash and numbers the game is probably doing allright enough. as **** as it is compared to everything else on the market but it has the f1 brand so.. it will sell.

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4 minutes ago, Bblows said:

With ' there is no bug here'  i hope you mean with dropping from the lobby when losing connection to steam and not with the game in general.. because there aren't a lot of game with more bugs and issues than this one.

But It doesn't matter if this is a bug or not according to your definition. The system (Bugged or not) is flawed and unreliable. The exchange of information between clients is flawed and unreliable. there's countless examples of why this p2p system and not investing in actual servers is the wrong way to go. Online racing in this game is in a very, very bad state with it being almost entirely impossible to go through a longer race without encountering game breaking issues. 

The fact that the game drops you might be designed like that by the devs, but it is bad and flawed design, that hurts the experience and as such, still very much a problem. 

The next game needs significant improvements in this regard because the way it's now, this game is the laughing stock of online racing and a clear example for every other developer on how NOT to design your multiplayer. 

I don't like arguing about P2P vs Dedicated as it's basically a time sink that no one really wants to get into, especially if neither of the two parties know how the current system is designed and why is it like that. I'm just protecting myself from hours of arguments 😛 

So, I'll just reply to couple of things:

- Yes, I meant that losing connection to Steam is not a bug in the game
- You may've unintentionally worded that a bit confusingly, but I disagree a bit with the "flawed design" of the 'drop connection when you lose connection to Steam' feature. Games are complicated, so there won't be a single opinion on basically anything. As a developer, it is rather important to ensure that the game is running properly at all times. So, if a dependency that contributes to the networking side of things reports a fatal error, you'd probably want to shut down the current connection. Yes, there are cases in which you could get away with just ignoring the message, but ignoring it can lead to a lot of buggy behaviour, which is something everyone wants to get rid of

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On 5/26/2021 at 8:18 PM, UP100 said:

I replied to you earlier about this. Even if Codemasters would use dedicated servers, they could tie the game to the Steamworks' networking API, because the API gives neat features that can be used in various ways

And  if it makes that when steam dies your race dies, Then that is a bad trade of to make. 
Maybe not that bad if you're playing ranked with 3 other people (2 of which dont brake for turn one) because you wasn't having that much fun anyway 

But if an hour race gets affected by it, it was a bad tradeoff. 

Other games do it better. Again: ACC has dedicated servers and doesn't have any of the many issues f1 has online. (Sure it has some minor bugs but... no game breaking things like this)
and whatever 'neat' features using steam gives... i don't miss em in games that don't have them. 

If anything that stupid inviting through steam has lasted long enough as well. WAY past time we get to favourite servers in game. so we just have a list of the servers we always go on and don't have so search at all... add password on the lobby: Done with the admins having to invite 20+ people EVERY quali and EVERY race to the invite only servers. 

Playing f1 on pc feels like playing a 6 year old console game in terms of UI, menu's, and QOL stuff. 

 

 

1 minute ago, UP100 said:

I don't like arguing about P2P vs Dedicated as it's basically a time sink that no one really wants to get into, especially if neither of the two parties know how the current system is designed and why is it like that. I'm just protecting myself from hours of arguments 😛 

So, I'll just reply to couple of things:

- Yes, I meant that losing connection to Steam is not a bug in the game
- You may've unintentionally worded that a bit confusingly, but I disagree a bit with the "flawed design" of the 'drop connection when you lose connection to Steam' feature. Games are complicated, so there won't be a single opinion on basically anything. As a developer, it is rather important to ensure that the game is running properly at all times. So, if a dependency that contributes to the networking side of things reports a fatal error, you'd probably want to shut down the current connection. Yes, there are cases in which you could get away with just ignoring the message, but ignoring it can lead to a lot of buggy behaviour, which is something everyone wants to get rid of

Don't get to it then. To the people of us that actually play the game a lot online (and other racing games that DO have dedicated servers as well) It's clear from comparison that this game needs to change its ways. 

Games are indeed complicated. I wouldn't be making such bold statements if i didn't know it could be done. I play other games where 24 hours races with 100+ people in the lobby at the same time are NO issue, and are NOT dependant on steam for their functioning (which removes 1 factor where there can be issues) So that's why i say there's better ways of handling it than this. 

The 'neat' features that using steam brings can't possibly balance out all the issues that it brings us. So if a choice was made there, the bad one was made. 

But i'm not arguing this game NEEDS dedicated servers per se.. But i AM arguing that the devs need to start taking multiplayer serious yesterday, and that BIG changes are gonna be needed (And i think dropping p2p is one of them... or at least it should never EVER again be possible for 2 people to be desynced to each other alone because that is just ridiculous)  if the next game isn't gonna be a fiasco like this one in terms of multiplayer. More new players might have bought the game again this time, But they've lost a lot long-time fans as well that see the game they want to play competitive online become worse instead of better every year. 

So many horrible issues that were in the game at the beta and are still not fixed to this day and whether p2p/dedicated servers is the problem (i think it is) or not doesn't matter for the conclusion that something needs to change. And i hope very much at least the devs know what needs to be changed because if the next game is as bad as this one it is, once again, a HUGE waste of this franchise with so much potential. 






 

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@Bblows Yeah as I said earlier, I'm trying to avoid a long argument as I should use the time on something more productive for my future, so apologies about not being able to get back to you. Take a like as an apology 🙇‍♂️

Aside from the opinion stuff, some of which I agree with, some of which I disagree with, I want to point out that, as far as I know, using the Steamworks API for networking stuff only comes with... about(?) two issues

1. The game needs to be on Steam
2. The client needs to be connected to Steam

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23 minutes ago, UP100 said:

@Bblows Yeah as I said earlier, I'm trying to avoid a long argument as I should use the time on something more productive for my future, so apologies about not being able to get back to you. Take a like as an apology 🙇‍♂️

Aside from the opinion stuff, some of which I agree with, some of which I disagree with, I want to point out that, as far as I know, using the Steamworks API for networking stuff only comes with... about(?) two issues

1. The game needs to be on Steam
2. The client needs to be connected to Steam

Just out of curiosity, what do YOU think causes the following issues? 

- lap counter being wrong at the start of races (Start lap 2 'DRS ENABLED' message for spectators) 
- Driver order being scrambled during lap 1-2-3 for spectators. 
- Cars clearly crossing the line in front of other cars yet being behind them in the race results. 
- 4/5 second delay between when spectators see the lights go out and the drivers do (any ai starts driving as soon as the spectators lights go tho) 
- 2 cars side by side both getting DRS or 2 cars side by side both NOT getting drs
- Drivers driving 3-5 seconds in front/behind of where they actually drive according to the times (So you can have someone behind you who is -2,000 sconds ahead of you)  after rejoin
- TIre temps being messed up after taking over control from ai. (Sometimes 0 kelvin tires, or tires rivaling the surface of the sun in temps) 
- Two drivers being invisible to eachtother, or one to the other (And that other then has a random ai car driving in his game that gets destroyed all the time by players driving through it) 
- Perpetual yellow flags all over the track, or in random corners. 

My god. didn't think it would be so easy to sum up a couple of small ones that happen literally every race but here we are. 

I think a server telling clients what is actually what, at least in terms of the numbers that appear on screen (and who has drs etc) would go a long way in fixing most of them. 
Probably some or most of them can be fixed just by fixing them individually. but the fact is that we have quite a lot of these 'desync' (and i don't mean it as connection desync but 2 peoples games telling different things desync) if we didn't have all clients make **** up themselves but 1 server that KNOWS (and tells) which lap it is, and who crossed the drs line first. Or what a certain cars tire temps are supposed to be, this game would be a lot better for it.
 

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20 minutes ago, Bblows said:

Just out of curiosity, what do YOU think causes the following issues? 

- lap counter being wrong at the start of races (Start lap 2 'DRS ENABLED' message for spectators) 
- Driver order being scrambled during lap 1-2-3 for spectators. 
- Cars clearly crossing the line in front of other cars yet being behind them in the race results. 
- 4/5 second delay between when spectators see the lights go out and the drivers do (any ai starts driving as soon as the spectators lights go tho) 
- 2 cars side by side both getting DRS or 2 cars side by side both NOT getting drs
- Drivers driving 3-5 seconds in front/behind of where they actually drive according to the times (So you can have someone behind you who is -2,000 sconds ahead of you)  after rejoin
- TIre temps being messed up after taking over control from ai. (Sometimes 0 kelvin tires, or tires rivaling the surface of the sun in temps) 
- Two drivers being invisible to eachtother, or one to the other (And that other then has a random ai car driving in his game that gets destroyed all the time by players driving through it) 
- Perpetual yellow flags all over the track, or in random corners. 

My god. didn't think it would be so easy to sum up a couple of small ones that happen literally every race but here we are. 

I think a server telling clients what is actually what, at least in terms of the numbers that appear on screen (and who has drs etc) would go a long way in fixing most of them. 
Probably some or most of them can be fixed just by fixing them individually. but the fact is that we have quite a lot of these 'desync' (and i don't mean it as connection desync but 2 peoples games telling different things desync) if we didn't have all clients make **** up themselves but 1 server that KNOWS (and tells) which lap it is, and who crossed the drs line first. Or what a certain cars tire temps are supposed to be, this game would be a lot better for it.
 

I said I was trying to use my time more efficiently 😁

With the context of my last message, none of these issues are caused by the Steamworks API. Other than that, I don't really want to spend an hour on going through with my speculations for each one. They're complicated, especially if you don't have access to the networking code, at which point you have to work with shared assumptions and such

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2 minutes ago, UP100 said:

I said I was trying to use my time more efficiently 😁

With the context of my last message, none of these issues are caused by the Steamworks API. Other than that, I don't really want to spend an hour on going through with my speculations for each one. They're complicated, especially if you don't have access to the networking code, at which point you have to work with shared assumptions and such

No but people are coming here commenting on all the issues with multiplayer. And you are very quick to disregard their issues and tell em steam is not the problem even though, to OP, and the rest of us, it really is. The length of the 'matches' in this game being part of the reason why it is a problem. 

As for the question about the frequent issues. Do you at least agree with me that these are big issues and codemasters need to have fixed these before the release of the next game? Or do you think that the game is fine with them being in the game? 

I mean, come on. we are in agreement that the multiplayer as it is now is a total affront and the f1 license unworthy right?  whether they go the right or the left way round, big steps are gonna have to be made to get this game out of this mess. and slowly build trust with the community again (If that trust is at all fixable)


 

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9 minutes ago, Bblows said:

No but people are coming here commenting on all the issues with multiplayer. And you are very quick to disregard their issues and tell em steam is not the problem even though, to OP, and the rest of us, it really is. The length of the 'matches' in this game being part of the reason why it is a problem. 

What I originally said was about how losing connection to Steam is not caused by P2P. It could still happen with dedicated servers. I never intended to disregard any issues, the only intention was to correct misleading statements.

I also needed to differenciate two issues that both lead to the same 'Cannot connect to Steam' error, which are: Steam's servers being down or an error on the user's side (so something the game can't fix)

Realising that an issue is caused by your machine is the best way of getting it fixed, which is why I thought it was important to mention.

 

9 minutes ago, Bblows said:

As for the question about the frequent issues. Do you at least agree with me that these are big issues and codemasters need to have fixed these before the release of the next game? Or do you think that the game is fine with them being in the game? 

I mean, come on. we are in agreement that the multiplayer as it is now is a total affront and the f1 license unworthy right?  whether they go the right or the left way round, big steps are gonna have to be made to get this game out of this mess. and slowly build trust with the community again (If that trust is at all fixable)

Every issue would be fixed in an optimal situation. There's just not much for me to say about these issues after six long years. The problem is getting enough data to fix these issues. We tried with the leaderboard issues to try and come up with something that would help with the bug fix, but I think that thread died out at some point (or maybe the forums stopped notifying me about it)

I encounter the exact same issue every single time I open the game. There just isn't really anything for me to say about it, as I still haven't come up with a fix to it

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Jeez, this has gone unnecessarily too far. Besides that a bit interesting to know more of what's going on.

I indeed agree that the Codemasters' online services should be updated, but there are some risks or limitations, I asume.

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13 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Every issue would be fixed in an optimal situation. There's just not much for me to say about these issues after six long years. The problem is getting enough data to fix these issues. We tried with the leaderboard issues to try and come up with something that would help with the bug fix, but I think that thread died out at some point (or maybe the forums stopped notifying me about it)

I encounter the exact same issue every single time I open the game. There just isn't really anything for me to say about it, as I still haven't come up with a fix to it

You don't need to always have the last word in every thread, lad, you can admit the user has a point but you're not in a position to do anything about, that's perfectly fine. No one's expecting a forum mod to fix multiplayer issues. 

 

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5 hours ago, Bblows said:

You're talking about companies that want to create a good game. Codemasters just wants to make money, as can be clearly seen from this 1 title a year aproach. 

What are you talking about? The annual release is typical of sports games and is probably something that Codemasters have to do based on their contract with FOM. I fail to see how this tells us anything about the developer's interest in making a good game.

Every developer wants to make good games but they obviously do so as a business and so financial considerations have to come into play too.

Edited by Ultra3142
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1 hour ago, KNT2011 said:

You don't need to always have the last word in every thread, lad, you can admit the user has a point but you're not in a position to do anything about, that's perfectly fine. No one's expecting a forum mod to fix multiplayer issues. 

 

Well the thing is that many messages include something that I want to reply to 😁

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15 hours ago, Neox98 said:

@UP100 Hey, someone in our League had a bug today (if you watch it, the renault with the username: "Grunebusch"):

https://clips.twitch.tv/DepressedPopularWalrusANELE-OACCc1LkFLJ8B5fJ

where can I make a bug report, or can you forward that?

Classic "Missing Tyre" Bug, crazy which kind of bugs we discover every year 🤣

Bug Reports can be posted here:

https://forums.codemasters.com/forum/111-gameplay-issues-and-bugs-ta/

Make sure to read the rules first and stick to the template.

 

Rules:

Template Singleplayer:

Template Multiplayer:

 

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