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cheaters in ranked multiplayer (obviously not disconnects)


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Posted (edited)

Would anyboby be so kind and give a little feedback on this multiplayer ranked video / on the cheating (?) that is going on here?

During the race in Japan, I seemed to have an awesome starting lap, only to loose it in a fast corner later on and spin together with the car in front of me, without making contact. When that happened, we were passed by the backmarkers and I caught up on them. However there was one car, which I nearly caught like 10 times, and every time I got close it leaped forward like a hundered meters so I could never catch it. Looking at the footage you can judge that this guy can hardly drive a fast line, he also seemed to leap outside the track. Times he had his name marked with a red X, times he had not. I drove my heart out and lost to him.

No big deal, but is this a form of cheating? See for yourself, time index from 25.45 minutes and on, the car in question is named "RBChrisF1" :

 

Edited by Schneehase
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Posted (edited)

On lap #4, he even looses it in the hairpin since he seemed to have "jumped" well outside the track (index 28.55 minutes and on), and I pass him, one corner later he appears in front of me. Just as I catch up on him still, he jumps straight another 200 meters, ***?

As if he had a button to leap forward. If anyone from Codemasters @BarryBL sees this, please give me a feedback if this is know / can be prevented for F1 2021 / can ban these players somehow. I suppose the game should be able to detect that kind of "driving", no?

Edited by Schneehase
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  • Schneehase changed the title to cheaters in ranked multiplayer (obviously not disconnects)

Honestly. To me it looks like that driver only has a really bad connection and is dropping in and out all the time. When he loses connection the AI drives the car and since the AI is set to a lower level it's slower than he actually drives. Then when he gets connected again the car in your view warps to the place where he actually is.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Lakrits said:

Honestly. To me it looks like that driver only has a really bad connection and is dropping in and out all the time. When he loses connection the AI drives the car and since the AI is set to a lower level it's slower than he actually drives. Then when he gets connected again the car in your view warps to the place where he actually is.

At first I thought this as well, but when you check the footage it becomes absolutely clear that it cant be disconnects alone.

First of all (while I am not the best driver) it is not possible that he is off the track and I pass him, driving myself without severe mistakes but as fast as I can, that he is ending the lap a few seconds in front of me. Mind you, we are talking hairpin to finish line only, in Suzuka. He had a bronze or low silver rating if I recall correctly without checking back to the footage, so how would that be possible? If it was, he must have lost connection and his car got off the track (which should not happen because AI takes over, doesnt it) and when he regains control, he doesnt only head back to the track but he beats my time by like 10 seconds over a complete lap, in order to get out ahead in front of me again (btw a guy whom I did beat in 1shot qualifying as well).

Secondly, if you follow the video it is very coincidently (?) that he always seem to leap forward once you get very close to him, or reach him. Later in the race, it seems he speeds this even up jumping forward at a much higher rate and thus pulling away, while at the same time he doesnt he seem to have very good control over his car, stumbling through the corners rather than finding an apex - and no, thats not the AI driving it in these moments.

I have driven a fair amount of online races and I have never seen anything like it. Would be interesting to get more information / opinions here please.

EDIT:

Look at the driver order with the times in the upper left corner of the screen during lap 4 and lap 5. His gap is the only one where the time of the gap never changes, eventhough all gaps to the other cars around are being updated consistently (plus one of these cars had a bad connect as well, driving about with a red X, times).

Edited by Schneehase
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13 minutes ago, Lakrits said:

Honestly. To me it looks like that driver only has a really bad connection and is dropping in and out all the time. When he loses connection the AI drives the car and since the AI is set to a lower level it's slower than he actually drives. Then when he gets connected again the car in your view warps to the place where he actually is.

Yeah it looks like this to me as well, it's incredibly distracting however I wouldn't be against a minimum connection level to get into ranked lobbies. 

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On 5/30/2021 at 1:47 PM, Schneehase said:

At first I thought this as well, but when you check the footage it becomes absolutely clear that it cant be disconnects alone.

First of all (while I am not the best driver) it is not possible that he is off the track and I pass him, driving myself without severe mistakes but as fast as I can, that he is ending the lap a few seconds in front of me. Mind you, we are talking hairpin to finish line only, in Suzuka. He had a bronze or low silver rating if I recall correctly without checking back to the footage, so how would that be possible? If it was, he must have lost connection and his car got off the track (which should not happen because AI takes over, doesnt it) and when he regains control, he doesnt only head back to the track but he beats my time by like 10 seconds over a complete lap, in order to get out ahead in front of me again (btw a guy whom I did beat in 1shot qualifying as well).

Secondly, if you follow the video it is very coincidently (?) that he always seem to leap forward once you get very close to him, or reach him. Later in the race, it seems he speeds this even up jumping forward at a much higher rate and thus pulling away, while at the same time he doesnt he seem to have very good control over his car, stumbling through the corners rather than finding an apex - and no, thats not the AI driving it in these moments.

I have driven a fair amount of online races and I have never seen anything like it. Would be interesting to get more information / opinions here please.

EDIT:

Look at the driver order with the times in the upper left corner of the screen during lap 4 and lap 5. His gap is the only one where the time of the gap never changes, eventhough all gaps to the other cars around are being updated consistently (plus one of these cars had a bad connect as well, driving about with a red X, times).

Well, I don't know. It's really difficult to say. I've seen people with bad connections plenty of time, warping around like mad, and I know they haven't been cheating. I'm not saying this isn't a cheat, I just find it an odd way to cheat though.

I know in some other games there are "god modes" that GM's can use to monitor things with. I've also seen people that's managed to hack into these modes and use them to their advantage. I don't know if there are such modes in this game, I honestly doubt it since there's no real use for them. So, I can only wonder what a cheat that does what you suggest really is supposed to do.

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50 minutes ago, Lakrits said:

Well, I don't know. It's really difficult to say. I've seen people with bad connections plenty of time, warping around like mad, and I know they haven't been cheating. I'm not saying this isn't a cheat, I just find it an odd way to cheat though.

I know in some other games there are "god modes" that GM's can use to monitor things with. I've also seen people that's managed to hack into these modes and use them to their advantage. I don't know if there are such modes in this game, I honestly doubt it since there's no real use for them. So, I can only wonder what a cheat that does what you suggest really is supposed to do.

Understood, I was asking for opinions and I got you right on this one, I think. It is my understanding that if someone has a bad connection, and the AI would have to take over for him, and this happens more than once, twice in a race, it should be to his disadvantage, rather than to his advantage. If I had to read elsewhere, that people in rainy multiplayer online races pause on purpose before driving through Eau Rouge (in order for the AI to take over for them) it is at least questionable if the disconnects are solved the right way.

I am by no means insisting this was cheating, if just seemed very odd (even when I look at it now, in the video) and I wanted to point it out.

Yes I agree that if you have a 1-time disconnect, its useful the AI catches your car rather than your car ramming away 3 drivers in front of you end of the straight. Then again, if this happens several times, let alone 10x or 20x like in this footage, why should the AI not get slower and slower driving your car, just as if you suffered some kind of mechanical failure? This would make the races somewhat interesting, it would allow you to stay in the game, it would not irritate others that much and it would ensure you cant catch any advantages by pausing on purpose. No?

Funny side note, met the same guy in another race later, he drove about normally without anything like in the video.

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40 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Understood, I was asking for opinions and I got you right on this one, I think. It is my understanding that if someone has a bad connection, and the AI would have to take over for him, and this happens more than once, twice in a race, it should be to his disadvantage, rather than to his advantage. If I had to read elsewhere, that people in rainy multiplayer online races pause on purpose before driving through Eau Rouge (in order for the AI to take over for them) it is at least questionable if the disconnects are solved the right way.

I am by no means insisting this was cheating, if just seemed very odd (even when I look at it now, in the video) and I wanted to point it out.

Yes I agree that if you have a 1-time disconnect, its useful the AI catches your car rather than your car ramming away 3 drivers in front of you end of the straight. Then again, if this happens several times, let alone 10x or 20x like in this footage, why should the AI not get slower and slower driving your car, just as if you suffered some kind of mechanical failure? This would make the races somewhat interesting, it would allow you to stay in the game, it would not irritate others that much and it would ensure you cant catch any advantages by pausing on purpose. No?

Funny side note, met the same guy in another race later, he drove about normally without anything like in the video.

That's a bit what I tried to say in my first post. If you pause the game the server AI takes over and when you regain control it doesn't change place since what the AI does also shows on your own screen while you're paused. Though, and this is as I have understood it, if a car loses connection the AI drives the car according to the difficulty the AI is set at. The driver that lost connection might be much faster than the AI so when he gets connected again the server finds out where he actually is and the car "warps" to that position in your view. The driver himself doesn't notice anything at all of this.

So, with a really bad connection that goes up and down all the time the effect will be as in your clip. I don't know what the AI level is set to in Ranked but it's probably not very high so just about anyone is faster than the AI there.

This is far from ideal of course. Having cars jumping back and forth like this can be very disturbing and can easily destroy other peoples races. That has happened to me a few times, once where the opponent suddenly appeared just next to me and pushed me into a wall before I even had a chance to react. No fault to the player in question since he obviously didn't see where I was because his client couldn't predict how I was driving when he didn't have a connection.

I don't know if it's at all possible to make this work better in the game, or if it's possible to just exclude players that have such bad connections from that session. Setting the AI level higher might also cause other unwanted issues.

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16 minutes ago, Lakrits said:

I don't know if it's at all possible to make this work better in the game, or if it's possible to just exclude players that have such bad connections from that session. Setting the AI level higher might also cause other unwanted issues.

Yeah the AI is fine to be honest, fi you watch cars driving when the payer has actually left disconnected and not returned, they run enough pace to get around the track faster than anyone messing around being a griefer but will be easily overtaken by someone driving the track as you're meant to, down to a pretty slow players level, so I don't think this needs adjusting personally. 

However as I stated, I'd welcome a ban on bad connections in ranked lobbies, if those running unranked want to open up the range that's fair enough, but currently it can be incredibly distracting especially on first corners when you have so much else to be paying attention to to get through smooth. Frankly if you don't have a strong and stable enough connection to not affect other players (excusing the occasional glitch or drop etc.) you shouldn't be racing in online modes. 

The game clearly reads who they are because it shows they're connection level as red in the lobby so it should be able to do this pretty easily. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2021 at 5:13 AM, Schneehase said:

On lap #4, he even looses it in the hairpin since he seemed to have "jumped" well outside the track (index 28.55 minutes and on), and I pass him, one corner later he appears in front of me. Just as I catch up on him still, he jumps straight another 200 meters, ***?

As if he had a button to leap forward. If anyone from Codemasters @BarryBL sees this, please give me a feedback if this is know / can be prevented for F1 2021 / can ban these players somehow. I suppose the game should be able to detect that kind of "driving", no?

On that specific incident, it was just lag.

Very common thing to happen in multiplayer racing when players are from all over the world with different network speeds, saw those million of times from my experience playing GT and Forza with Aussies/Asian players lol

Edited by DRTApophis
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