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F1 2021 Engine Sounds


mendtofix

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Hi, as you know yesterday F1 2021 Beta version released for some chosen streamers. I think this year's game improved a lot. But i think there are problems on the engine sounds side as always. I think engine sounds still have nothing to do with reality. Is it really so hard to make the sounds like in this video that directly taken from F1TV On-Board camera? 

 

 

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The sound from FOM's onboard cameras isn't realistic. They have multiple microphones that they mix together in order to create something that's often called 'Broadcast Mix'. The position of these microphones, and the mixing, get changed every now and then as FOM tries to make the cars sound "better" for the broadcast

Since 2020, the game has included an option to try and imitate the broadcast mix.

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4 hours ago, UP100 said:

The sound from FOM's onboard cameras isn't realistic. They have multiple microphones that they mix together in order to create something that's often called 'Broadcast Mix'. The position of these microphones, and the mixing, get changed every now and then as FOM tries to make the cars sound "better" for the broadcast

Since 2019, the game has included an option to try and imitate the broadcast mix.

Since 2020 to be precise.

 

Sadly neither F1 2020 or F1 2021 sound anywhere close to the Engine Sounds we get to hear on SkyF1 / F1TV or on Pole Laps / Onboards.

 

From how the Audio has been handled over the past years, Codemasters are obviously doing their own thing, with their own Mix.

 

But for maximum immersion and accuracy, Codemasters need to use the exact same EQ, Filters, and Sound Mix as the guys from FOM / SkyF1 / F1TV, else the Engine Sounds will always be off by a mile.

 

It's good that they have put in the effort to try to imitate the second Turbo Whine (or Electrical Sounds) for the V6T Engines, but it's not perfect.

 

PS: I remember having read quite a while ago, that one of the guys at Codemasters' Audio department stated that they do indeed use the exact same Mic placement as the guys from FOM.

 

So why are the results completely different?

 

That is a question that i would appreciate, Codemasters answers!

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If anything, the game sounds pitch is way too low, the game engines are not "screaming" like the ones IRL, as if their revs where half of the real thing. As from some YT videos I have the impression, that F1 2021 engines sound like my wife using the kitchen mixxer and touching the bowl inside every round, as she is cooking.

Edit - since F1 invented these V6 engines with batteries, the main criticism always was they would not sound like F1 engines any more (go dig out some V10 sound). In a game, we would have the chance to let the engines sound whatever we would like them to, but instead we worsen that situation. That is - forgive me - a real shame.

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59 minutes ago, SturmDesTodes said:

So why are the results completely different?

I'd say that the complexity of audio has its part in it, as CM obviously wants it to be realistic. The audio team at FOM don't have nearly as much work as CM, as they only need to put the mics there, handle the data transmission and then mix them together.

CM on the other hand has to do what the audio team at FOM does and more, such as:

  • develop sound technologies and find good settings for those
  • record audio (everything from winds blowing to the jack man raising your car off the ground)
  • edit audio to the audio files that the game can operate with
  • figure out how to emit the sounds and how the sounds should behave in the system
  • add data for game objects on how they should interact with the sound system (sound reflection etc.)
  • edit the real life car sounds into usable bundles that can then be played correctly by the game
  • create multiple settings for the audio system, such as the Broadcast Mix

Not to mention that the team has been allocated with a specific amount of resources in real life and in terms of CPU processing time

E: Then there are also simply things in the FOM audio that you don't want to imitate, as the onboard broadcast mix is a great example of how to make something not sound real. It's made to try and excite the fans (as most don't like vacuums), not give anyone the feeling of actually hearing the car

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Okay, you are saying that the onboard sound mix FOM uses is not realistic and it is horrible. But we are saying we love the engine sounds that we hear from the TV as gamers. Isn't it more important what community wants? We don't care if the sounds from TV are realistic or not.  We simply just prefer the TV sounds over the current game's sounds. 

Besides if you ask me F1 2021's engine sounds are exact same as the F1 2020. Just turbo whine sound added to the background. Don't take it as disrespect but i can't see you're working so hard.

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19 minutes ago, UP100 said:

I think it's rather simple. The audio team at FOM don't have nearly as much work as CM, as they only need to put the mics there, handle the data transmission and then mix them together.

CM on the other hand has to do what the audio team at FOM does and more, such as:

  • develop sound technologies and find good settings for those
  • record audio (everything from winds blowing to the jack man raising your car off the ground)
  • edit audio to the audio files that the game can operate with
  • figure out how to emit the sounds and how the sounds should behave in the system
  • add data for game objects on how they should interact with the sound system (sound reflection etc.)
  • edit the real life car sounds into usable bundles that can then be played correctly by the game
  • create multiple settings for the audio system, such as the Broadcast Mix

Not to mention that the team has been allocated with a specific amount of resources in real life and in terms of CPU processing time

E: Then there are also simply things in the FOM audio that you don't want to imitate, as the onboard broadcast mix is a great example of how to make something not sound real. It's made to try and excite the fans (as most don't like vacuums), not give anyone the feeling of actually hearing the car

Of course the workload is a lot, and they have to keep the end product as "usable" / "accessible" as possible. But: 

 

If hobbymodders and or even small studios can nearly perfectly replicate the modern V6T engine sound effects and design from scratch, with no access to real life mic placements or audio files, and no hightech audio gear etc., then i'm sure Codemasters should be able to give us a much better end product.

 

-----------------------

 

Also, regarding your last paragraph:

26 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Then there are also simply things in the FOM audio that you don't want to imitate, as the onboard broadcast mix is a great example of how to make something not sound real. It's made to try and excite the fans (as most don't like vacuums), not give anyone the feeling of actually hearing the car

 

Would it not be advisable to create 3 different types of Sound Mixtures,  to have a more appealing product?

 

For example:

 

Sound Mix 1 (T-Cam / Offset T-Cam) = FOM mix. Exactly the same sound as on TV. 

 

Sound Mix 2 (Cockpit / Helmet Cam) = Raw audio files, minimal adjustments to imitate wearing a helmet via a muffle filter. (Maybe get some viable feedback from Real F1 drivers to get a more realistic audio mix; Leclerc, Norris, Russell etc. all do play the Codemasters F1 games and could be able to help out).

 

Sound Mix 3 (Chase Cam) = Raw audio files. 

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3 minutes ago, SturmDesTodes said:

If hobbymodders and or even small studios can nearly perfectly replicate the modern V6T engine sound effects and design from scratch, with no access to real life mic placements or audio files, and no hightech audio gear etc., then i'm sure Codemasters should be able to give us a much better end product.

Isn't this mostly just because they do the "copy & paste" thing? Even if that would somehow give a good quality simulation of the world, there would probably be license issues for a start

At least with modders, they skip almost all of the phases I said above.

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2 minutes ago, SturmDesTodes said:

Of course the workload is a lot, and they have to keep the end product as "usable" / "accessible" as possible. But: 

 

If hobbymodders and or even small studios can nearly perfectly replicate the modern V6T engine sound effects and design from scratch, with no access to real life mic placements or audio files, and no hightech audio gear etc., then i'm sure Codemasters should be able to give us a much better end product.

 

-----------------------

 

Also, regarding your last paragraph:

 

Would it not be advisable to create 3 different types of Sound Mixtures,  to have a more appealing product?

 

For example:

 

Sound Mix 1 (T-Cam / Offset T-Cam) = FOM mix. Exactly the same sound as on TV. 

 

Sound Mix 2 (Cockpit / Helmet Cam) = Raw audio files, minimal adjustments to imitate wearing a helmet via a muffle filter. (Maybe get some viable feedback from Real F1 drivers to get a more realistic audio mix; Leclerc, Norris, Russell etc. all do play the Codemasters F1 games and could be able to help out).

 

Sound Mix 3 (Chase Cam) = Raw audio files. 

Exactly! But i don't think they will make these things happen. Until now countless topic has been opened in this forum about audio part of the game but they refuses to do that in a way that I can't understand. 😞 

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4 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Isn't this mostly just because they do the "copy & paste" thing? Even if that would somehow give a good quality simulation of the world, there would probably be license issues for a start

At least with modders, they skip almost all of the phases I said above.

So what are we ask is actually needs less effort. 😄 

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F1 2021 is just the same engine sounds as F1 2020 but with an added turbo whistle. Pretty disappointing to be honest and maybe this year someone in the mod community will be able to make something better. 

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We know for a fact that the product as seen in the recently released gameplay footage is not finished and changes will come.

Adding a turbo whistle is very nice and with every engine except for the mercedes you could hear it from on-board camera footage from F1TV

I was cool with it all given that covid limited moving about, so to go to testing days and record some beautifull sounds would most likely not happen.
But after reading that the audio team uses the same mic placement as F1TV but different tuning I changed my mind.
I know there's alot to do for the audio team besides the engine sounds, but if at all possible, please look into 'improving' the engine sounds to match the albeit slightly unrealistic F1TV version.

Because at the end of the day, that's pretty much what most people want.

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Ok there is some workload, check, does that hinder CM to turn the pitch of engine sound up? Dont think so. Sound is soooo important for immersion, hence all the IRL discussions to make the V6 hybrid engines LOUDER in real life, so to attract more fans. Enough said.

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6 hours ago, Bhawk67 said:

F1 2021 is just the same engine sounds as F1 2020 but with an added turbo whistle. Pretty disappointing to be honest and maybe this year someone in the mod community will be able to make something better. 

It's more disappointed when you realising that they can make the F2 engine sound so close to the real thing, but for F1 they are really behind. But to be honest, the sound could be worse, it's not the greatest but it's acceptable. 

I think if they focus on just make the sound of the game close to the onboard sound in real life, no matter if the sound it's realistic or not, if FOM mix everything or not, it's better then have people complaining about it, that's more sad when you look at F2, they sound so much better and give you more immersive.

This version it's a old version, it's a 1.0, when the game comes for us will be at 1.10 like last year, something like that, let's hope they can make it even better.

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14 minutes ago, ParadoxAMG53 said:

It's more disappointed when you realising that they can make the F2 engine sound so close to the real thing, but for F1 they are really behind. But to be honest, the sound could be worse, it's not the greatest but it's acceptable. 

I think if they focus on just make the sound of the game close to the onboard sound in real life, no matter if the sound it's realistic or not, if FOM mix everything or not, it's better then have people complaining about it, that's more sad when you look at F2, they sound so much better and give you more immersive.

This version it's a old version, it's a 1.0, when the game comes for us will be at 1.10 like last year, something like that, let's hope they can make it even better.

I don't think they will change the audio, it will be most likely final version on the audio side unfortunately. Man i can't understand why they can't make the engine sounds as we(most of the community) want.

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16 minutes ago, mendtofix said:

I don't think they will change the audio, it will be most likely final version on the audio side unfortunately. Man i can't understand why they can't make the engine sounds as we(most of the community) want.

Maybe they are trying to do their own stuff, it's really far from the real thing yeah, but they are "original".
I Agree with you, if they just copy and paste the sound from onboards, people will be more satisfying with the game and perhaps play much more, bucause the imerssive thing, hope the new tyre model and handling are better, at least we have a minimon sound upgrade. 

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  • Codemasters Staff

Hello, I'll try and answer some of your questions here.

@mendtofix "I think engine sounds still have nothing to do with reality".

This isn't true at all, perhaps if you're saying "reality" is a compressed feed you are watching on TV then yes, we're not identical to that. As I have mentioned before on this forum we record the actual PUs and work with multiple teams to achieve this so I don't really see how you can describe hearing the actual recordings taken from the actual cars during the winter test is anything other than reality. We also work closely with teams and drivers and have feedback from one team (I won't mention who due to NDAs) where both drivers have fed back that the audio they are hearing is fairly representative of what they hear in the cockpit. Perhaps this isn't to your liking and we will take your feedback on board.

@SturmDesTodes
"I remember having read quite a while ago, that one of the guys at Codemasters' Audio department stated that they do indeed use the exact same Mic placement as the guys from FOM."

Yes this is true, we try to replicate the set-up as close as possible, obviously space and positioning is limited on board but we aim place our microphones asclose to the broadcast microphones as possible. There are however some limitations.

@mendtofix "Besides if you ask me F1 2021's engine sounds are exact same as the F1 2020."

&

@Bhawk67 "F1 2021 is just the same engine sounds as F1 2020 but with an added turbo whistle. Pretty disappointing to be honest and maybe this year someone in the mod community will be able to make something better."

You won't find me using this excuse often but I will point out we have been in the middle of a global pandemic for a year and a half. I'd like to point out our job has been incredibly difficult this year with access to our usual routine very limited. I'll assure you though that we've done everything we can this year to once again deliver from the audio side and this year's game has a huge amount of time put into it from our department.

@SturmDesTodes "Would it not be advisable to create 3 different types of Sound Mixtures"

You'll find an option in the audio menu this year that offers you multiple levels of control over the mix. This also includes the filtered helmet (to simulate what a driver hears) you mentioned. As with the engine audio we've had feedback from drivers on this and it has been positive so far.

@SturmDesTodes "If hobbymodders and or even small studios can nearly perfectly replicate the modern V6T engine sound effects and design from scratch, with no access to real life mic placements or audio files, and no hightech audio gear etc., then i'm sure Codemasters should be able to give us a much better end product."

Perhaps but then again we're not allowed to simply rip footage from FOM feeds, we have to record our own audio.

 

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5 minutes ago, issueskid said:

Hello, I'll try and answer some of your questions here.

@mendtofix "I think engine sounds still have nothing to do with reality".

This isn't true at all, perhaps if you're saying "reality" is a compressed feed you are watching on TV then yes, we're not identical to that. As I have mentioned before on this forum we record the actual PUs and work with multiple teams to achieve this so I don't really see how you can describe hearing the actual recordings taken from the actual cars during the winter test is anything other than reality. We also work closely with teams and drivers and have feedback from one team (I won't mention who due to NDAs) where both drivers have fed back that the audio they are hearing is fairly representative of what they hear in the cockpit. Perhaps this isn't to your liking and we will take your feedback on board.

@SturmDesTodes
"I remember having read quite a while ago, that one of the guys at Codemasters' Audio department stated that they do indeed use the exact same Mic placement as the guys from FOM."

Yes this is true, we try to replicate the set-up as close as possible, obviously space and positioning is limited on board but we aim place our microphones asclose to the broadcast microphones as possible. There are however some limitations.

@mendtofix "Besides if you ask me F1 2021's engine sounds are exact same as the F1 2020."

&

@Bhawk67 "F1 2021 is just the same engine sounds as F1 2020 but with an added turbo whistle. Pretty disappointing to be honest and maybe this year someone in the mod community will be able to make something better."

You won't find me using this excuse often but I will point out we have been in the middle of a global pandemic for a year and a half. I'd like to point out our job has been incredibly difficult this year with access to our usual routine very limited. I'll assure you though that we've done everything we can this year to once again deliver from the audio side and this year's game has a huge amount of time put into it from our department.

@SturmDesTodes "Would it not be advisable to create 3 different types of Sound Mixtures"

You'll find an option in the audio menu this year that offers you multiple levels of control over the mix. This also includes the filtered helmet (to simulate what a driver hears) you mentioned. As with the engine audio we've had feedback from drivers on this and it has been positive so far.

@SturmDesTodes "If hobbymodders and or even small studios can nearly perfectly replicate the modern V6T engine sound effects and design from scratch, with no access to real life mic placements or audio files, and no hightech audio gear etc., then i'm sure Codemasters should be able to give us a much better end product."

Perhaps but then again we're not allowed to simply rip footage from FOM feeds, we have to record our own audio.

 

I appreciate your hard work and you are absolutely right about the pandemic situation. Maybe you are also right about the sound of the game is realistic audio but we will be happier if the sounds can be similar to the TV sounds. Just an advise from F1 games addict. Thanks for your hard work again.

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  • Codemasters Staff

@mendtofix Yes and feedback is always appreciated, this is why I make a point of trying to be fairly active in the forum around the release window (I don't think you'll find too many devs across the industry doing the same). I appreciate a lot of you want the game to sound more like the TV and we are taking this feedback on board, this is why for 2021 you'll find a lot more audio options than the last few games and we're trying to open up the variety of mix options, which is why you'll find helmet audio and ways to make the game sound more or less like broadcast/drivers POV.

Pointing out that the same hard working audio guys who make the F1 engines also make the Grid/Dirt engines using the same tools.

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What people is trying to say is that they don't care if the engine sound is checked by a real F1 driver or if it's the real deal. I appriciate CM point of view, they want us to feel like we are the drivers. But what the community is trying to tell to you is that they don't want it. They want the F1TV sound. That's what we all can relate to and not what Lewis Hamilton can relate to when he is sitting in the cockpit of a real F1 car. We are actually the people buying the product and everyone is urging CM to put mor resources in to this when you can. We appreciate the hard work you are putting in to this excellent product. 

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5 hours ago, ellenpabatn said:

What people is trying to say is that they don't care if the engine sound is checked by a real F1 driver or if it's the real deal. I appriciate CM point of view, they want us to feel like we are the drivers. But what the community is trying to tell to you is that they don't want it. They want the F1TV sound.

Well...I do not agree with this. I want the audio to be as close to real life as possible and not what it sounds like in TV. Exactly like in all other driving games. I want all cars to sound as realistic as possible like I would be standing next to it.

Sometimes it is a bit funny that many in this forum wants this game to be as realistic as possible (fix this kerb as it is not 100% as in real life, add new tracks as announced yesterday, etc.). Then the car should sound like in TV and not like in real life...?

I guess the best thing in the future is to have as many options as possible so that people can configure the game as they like. That's why I like the approach CM is taking and introducing these in the game.

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I think what we the community are trying to say is what we want is reality to be our version of reality even if that isn't reality  TV is reality because that's where we see and hear F1 and so that's how the game should be , just like the reality of TV and that's why we all drive around in T-Cam. What we also need to be added to the game to make it more like reality is during a race the camera needs to be constantly changing view and we need a running commentary over the sounds of the engines to make it more like reality , also there should be no vibrations ,haptic stuff or FFB as on TV there is nothing like that . We the community also need a way of selecting the exact sound that we hear in our particular houses based on the particular model of TV we have and the acoustics of the room.

IMWO as a person who isn't part of the we I think if the we part of the forum actually worked in the gaming industry and understood the limitations of technical aspects of recording sound and then mixing it and making it operate in the way that you want it to during game play and within the constraints of the allocated budget and space in the game they have ; then they may be a little more sympathetic to the people who actually do the job.

Personally I don't understand why they just don't stop messing around and press the button that makes the game have VR in it ,its not like its that hard to do.

Wanting things to be a certain way is easy , actually making things be in a certain way isn't usually as easy. Unfortunately THAT is the actual  reality.

We the community want realistic in car sound exactly the way that Lewis Hamilton hears it and we want VR and we want no children's content in the game and NO Bedtime Stories and we want Elton John's Shop shut down and we want Devon Butler to be gunned down in a drive by shooting so that there is no chance of him popping back for a sequel in the future , that's what we want , and I think I speak for everyone here.

 

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