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Fuel Mix change removed on F1 2021 during race?


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1 hour ago, GioProductions said:

I understand you can only change it manually during safety car?

I am a bit disappointed if that is the case.

Or do we have it as an option in the game settings? 

You're right based on on the gameplay footage that has been released, and since this reflects real F1 I'm not really sure why you should feel too surprised or disappointed. Personally I'll be glad to not have to worry about it any more 🙂.

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4 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

You're right based on on the gameplay footage that has been released, and since this reflects real F1 I'm not really sure why you should feel too surprised or disappointed. Personally I'll be glad to not have to worry about it any more 🙂.

I liked it as it could make a different in the battle/win strategy

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As far as I recall the constant managing of lean / standard / rich settings to get the most out of the system was not reflective of how it's used in real life at all. 

I found it tedious rather than strategic personally. 

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4 hours ago, GioProductions said:

I liked it as it could make a different in the battle/win strategy

Look on the bright side , you will probably  still have the gearbox that can go into neutral on the down change just like IRL

I liked the fuel management controls as well , of course it isn't like it is IRL but then most things in the game are not exactly the same as they are IRL although anything they can add to give the feeling of having other tasks to carry out while actually racing just as the real drivers do in a race is a welcome addition but with the loss of that feature they  are probably planning some other stuff to replace it in the future , I liked what they did with the  ERS deployment button addition in 2020 .   I was on 2019 the other day then switched to 2020 and did an identical race set up in Grand Priks mode and the improvement (except for graphics which is worse not better IMWO) is remarkable so if they really have improved the handling of the cars and made it more sim like for 2021 then it may make up for the loss of the fuel management feature.........  or not depending on your WI.

BTW probably may as well change the title to 'Simsters vs the Arcadians' to fuel or not fuel.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

You're right based on on the gameplay footage that has been released, and since this reflects real F1 I'm not really sure why you should feel too surprised or disappointed. Personally I'll be glad to not have to worry about it any more 🙂.

Hi I have been thinking about this quite a lot recently - according to BarryBL in May last year "we have taken feedback and information directly from F1 drivers and teams on how the system is used and deployed in real-life. We have been told from the teams/drivers that the current 2019 ERS management system was far too complicated and something that the F1 drivers do not engage in to this level. Therefore, we have made changes to create a system closer to real-life deployment strategies" in other words no more Strat options like None/Low/Medium/High engine settings during the race.

So the outcome in 2020 is we only have a Medium setting with the option to 'toggle on' Overtake (aka KERS) during the race and a 'Fuel Mix MAX' during qualy (something akin to Party mode I guess?). (Plus the old 2019 strat options during free practice) So far so good - HOWEVER over the course of the last few months whilst reading recent (season 2021) transcripts of Mercedes team/driver conversations it is common practice for Bono (Lewis Hamilton's Mechanic) to instruct him to change to different STRAT MODES during the race For example STRAT MODE 11 - during an outlap, STRAT MODE 5 - after a safety car, STRAT MODE 7 when having to push, push, push to catch Verstappen over a four or five laps during the recent Spanish Grand Prix. In other words it would appear contrary to what BarryBL stated last year drivers do change between different STRAT MODES (Engine Modes) that include various States of Charge (SOC) during the race.

Similarly I have recently noticed in F1 2020 an number of (if not all?) Esport drivers are using fuel mix as an exploit to gain traction into/outof corners - so if Codemasters are planning to reduce the number of options for fuel mix are they going to provide us with an option to change STRAT MODES (ie engine modes) during the race?

PS the recent banning of party mode only said you cannot use a one off strat mode in qualy - if a strat mode (engine mode including a specific fuel mix) is available during the race you can use it in Qualy - thing is no one uses party mode (ie STRAT 2) as it would possibly overheat the engine/tyres during a race ergo you cannot use it in qualifying.

Hope this makes sense and come on Codemasters let's have a more realistic game?

Edited by HamishOK
Highlight question to Codemasters
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15 minutes ago, HamishOK said:

it is common practice for Bono (Lewis Hamilton's Mechanic) to instruct him to change to different STRAT MODES during the race For example STRAT MODE 11 - during an outlap, STRAT MODE 5 - after a safety car, STRAT MODE 7 when having to push, push, push to catch Verstappen over a four or five laps during the recent Spanish Grand Prix. In other words it would appear contrary to what BarryBL stated last year drivers do change between different STRAT MODES (Engine Modes) that include various States of Charge (SOC) during the race.

I don't agree with your conclusion that this is contrary to what Barry was talking about. While I take your point, if we go with your example, they're not looking to gain a strategic advantage with the changing of modes, and the driver isn't engaging with it in any meaningful way, it sounds like they going into different modes to prevent damage or issue ie. more like performance management than actual race strategy the player needs to be involved in. 

I'm not against them adding it in if it's something that demanded, but it's not the same kind of things as Barry was referencing and what we previously were able to use. 

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Hi KNT2011 - I think we may be kinda saying the same thing - yes the drivers only respond to an instruction to turn a rotary dial (as suggested by BarryBL and Lando Norris) - but like most things in F1 they probably only change engine mode if in the course of a race it brings a performance ie strategic advantage (I believe). I do think however constantly changing the fuel mix during the race is not realistic but again Esport drivers will do anything to gain a performance/strategic advantage - Yes?

Thanks for your comment - Hamish

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1 minute ago, HamishOK said:

Hi KNT2011 - I think we may be kinda saying the same thing - yes the drivers only respond to an instruction to turn a rotary dial (as suggested by BarryBL and Lando Norris) - but like most things in F1 they probably only change engine mode if in the course of a race it brings a performance ie strategic advantage (I believe). I do think however constantly changing the fuel mix during the race is not realistic but again Esport drivers will do anything to gain a performance/strategic advantage - Yes?

Thanks for your comment - Hamish

Absolutely mate, I do it myself in online races to gain any advantage that the game can offer, I just find it one of the more annoying parts of the game and if it doesn't represent a real function I'm glad to be rid of it :classic_laugh:

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

Absolutely mate, I do it myself in online races to gain any advantage that the game can offer, I just find it one of the more annoying parts of the game and if it doesn't represent a real function I'm glad to be rid of it :classic_laugh:

Me Too - most unrealistic

 

15 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

 

 

Edited by HamishOK
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9 hours ago, HamishOK said:

Similarly I have recently noticed in F1 2020 an number of (if not all?) Esport drivers are using fuel mix as an exploit to gain traction into/outof corners - so if Codemasters are planning to reduce the number of options for fuel mix are they going to provide us with an option to change STRAT MODES (ie engine modes) during the race?

I use lean fuel mixture in a lot of slow speed sections for this main reason, and to preserve the rear tyres. That is I only race against ai at 105 Difficulty. Or sections like the entire 3rd sector of Singapore, I would run the entire sector in lean until the start/finish straight.

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The real F1 rules have changed last year. The same engine setting (the combustion side of it, not the electrical) must be used throughout qualifying and the race and can only be dialed back if problems occur or are likely to occur. They can't be changed back up when the problems are solved. There are a few exceptions to this rule, like out laps and intentional slow laps. But you shouldn't be able to change it during normal race conditions and there shouldn't be a MAX or Rich setting during qualifying either.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Krisperfectline said:

I use lean fuel mixture in a lot of slow speed sections for this main reason, and to preserve the rear tyres. That is I only race against ai at 105 Difficulty. Or sections like the entire 3rd sector of Singapore, I would run the entire sector in lean until the start/finish straight.

Sounds like if we had different engine modes (ie a choice of pre-mapped STRAT modes) we could manage situations like this better for example would the old (2019) LOW engine mode become an option? - my limited understanding  of different pre-mapped STRAT modes allows for different ERS, SOC, Derating and Timing throughout a single lap - in other words it is pre mapped to change "during" different sections of a lap and the driver is instructed to rotate the STRAT dial during a race to delivery different STRAT (ie engine) modes, as needed, at different phases of a race. I don't think they change the fuel mix at most corners to increase/decrease traction (that's what the 2 x Diff thumb wheels on their steering wheels do and I don't think they do it at nearly all the corners?). If I remember correctly pre-mapped engine modes (ie STRAT modes) was covered in some earlier posts by @Sloppymusic back in May 2020. Also there is some interesting bits in this youtube by Hywel Thomas Mercedes Power Unit Director who explains about the number of pre-mapped "Strat Positions" (engine modes) available to drivers during a race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwwUOYTbyfs&feature=emb_rel_end%5C

 

Edited by HamishOK
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4 hours ago, Falstojudilofa said:

The real F1 rules have changed last year. The same engine setting (the combustion side of it, not the electrical) must be used throughout qualifying and the race and can only be dialed back if problems occur or are likely to occur. They can't be changed back up when the problems are solved. There are a few exceptions to this rule, like out laps and intentional slow laps. But you shouldn't be able to change it during normal race conditions and there shouldn't be a MAX or Rich setting during qualifying either.

Thanks Falstojudilofa - I guess that's what I have been trying to say - frequently changing fuel mix is not realistic - however the option to change pre-mapped STRAT Modes during a race is.

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11 minutes ago, HamishOK said:

Sounds like if we had different engine modes (ie a choice of STRAT modes) we could manage situations like this better for example would the old (2019) LOW engine mode become an option? - my limited understanding  of different pre-mapped STRAT modes allows for different ERS, SOC, Derating and Timing throughout a single lap - in other words it is pre mapped to change "during" different sections of a lap and the driver is instructed to rotate the STRAT dial during a race to delivery different STRAT (ie engine) modes, as needed, at different phases of a race. I don't think they change the fuel mix at most corners to increase/decrease traction (that's what the 3 x Diff rotary wheels on their steering wheels do and I don't think they do it at nearly all the corners?). If I remember correctly pre-mapped engine modes (ie STRAT modes) was covered in some earlier posts by @Sloppymusic back in May 2020. Also there is some interesting bits in this youtube by Hywel Thomas Mercedes Power Unit Director who explains about the number of pre-mapped "Strat Positions" (engine modes) available to drivers during a race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwwUOYTbyfs&feature=emb_rel_end%5C

 

Look, in real life I firmly don’t believe that the drivers change the fuel mix every corner or every sector. If the team pre map their settings, and if they can implement this into the game, that would be really useful in the race. 
 

 By the way, I never use lean in qualifying. In the rain, I may switch it to rich on some corners, because the acceleration difference in qualifying between lean and max is massive.

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5 minutes ago, HamishOK said:

Sounds like if we had different engine modes (ie a choice of STRAT modes) we could manage situations like this better for example would the old (2019) LOW engine mode become an option? - my limited understanding  of different pre-mapped STRAT modes allows for different ERS, SOC, Derating and Timing throughout a single lap - in other words it is pre mapped to change "during" different sections of a lap and the driver is instructed to rotate the STRAT dial during a race to delivery different STRAT (ie engine) modes, as needed, at different phases of a race. I don't think they change the fuel mix at most corners to increase/decrease traction (that's what the 3 x Diff rotary wheels on their steering wheels do and I don't think they do it at nearly all the corners?). If I remember correctly pre-mapped engine modes (ie STRAT modes) was covered in some earlier posts by @Sloppymusic back in May 2020. Also there is some interesting bits in this youtube by Hywel Thomas Mercedes Power Unit Director who explains about the number of pre-mapped "Strat Positions" (engine modes) available to drivers during a race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwwUOYTbyfs&feature=emb_rel_end%5C

 

I don't know about yours or others experiences in the game but I have been instructed by Jeff  to select and use a specific fuel mix to protect worn parts of the charging system on the power unit during a 100% distance race on several occasions this can end up having a detrimental affect on performance depending on if you need to be in Lean or Rich mix as the former gives less speed and the latter could over deplete fuel reserves if you started the race with a zero margin amount and have a damaged ERS deployment and so your race is restricted as it can be for a driver IRL F1 , the fact that it is not happening exactly the way it happens IRL makes absolutely Zero difference, ITS JUST A GAME and as most people are on a pad and driving in T-Cam view what's realistic got to do with anything.      

In conclusion as far as what you are alluding to goes it is loosely in the 2020 game now.

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On 5 lap MP Races  to not have this option will have quite some impact 

fuel mix on start and the right corners made a difference ….

Curios to see this in practices 

In F1 2020 you could use this in a very good way during race to overtake or prevent from being overtaken/ together with the right timing of ERS …

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On 6/6/2021 at 3:49 AM, Shark2Racing said:

On 5 lap MP Races  to not have this option will have quite some impact 

fuel mix on start and the right corners made a difference ….

Curios to see this in practices 

In F1 2020 you could use this in a very good way during race to overtake or prevent from being overtaken/ together with the right timing of ERS …

This is another issue I have. At times like on Singapore and Monaco, I wish to have the car underfuelled, and in the majority of 5 lap races, the car is overfuelled for my liking. But it would be great if they could fix the fuel discrepancies, because lean appears to be the best fuel mode in race trim for a set of corners or sections that do not require long full throttle application. Because it is better to go to lean than to standard in those sections to save tyre wear, particularly the rears, and at Baku or Canada, where rear tyre wear is just off the charts, this becomes a really great technique due to the game mechanics.

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2 hours ago, Krisperfectline said:

This is another issue I have. At times like on Singapore and Monaco, I wish to have the car underfuelled, and in the majority of 5 lap races, the car is overfuelled for my liking. But it would be great if they could fix the fuel discrepancies, because lean appears to be the best fuel mode in race trim for a set of corners or sections that do not require long full throttle application. Because it is better to go to lean than to standard in those sections to save tyre wear, particularly the rears, and at Baku or Canada, where rear tyre wear is just off the charts, this becomes a really great technique due to the game mechanics.

I can't help but feel you're overthinking 5 lap races. They are intended as quick, fun races rather than deep strategy challenges surely?

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1 hour ago, Ultra3142 said:

I can't help but feel you're overthinking 5 lap races. They are intended as quick, fun races rather than deep strategy challenges surely?

To be fair I also play with fuel mix to gain every advantage in these races, but as before, it's not representative of anything in real life, and is more tedious than engaging so it won't be missed by me at least. 

I have no idea how much of your typical lobby might mess with this during a race, mind. I would have probably have fuel rich too to get the best turn 1 divebomb possible. 

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2 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

I can't help but feel you're overthinking 5 lap races. They are intended as quick, fun races rather than deep strategy challenges surely?

Honestly, maybe I suck so bad at qualifying or low fuel runs LOL But leaving the fuel mix on rich for the whole 5 lap race has never been my style. 

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I don't like the change if that's the case.   I was OK with the ERS change last year because it responds more to how things really work.  I don't like the idea of removing the fuel mix settings though.  We know the engineers on the pit wall and drivers can change settings to increase engine power and technically therefore fuel usage as well.  I mean, we see/hear the calls all race long from the teams telling the drivers to adjust settings, or from the driver's requesting for more power when chasing down the leader.   So because they can't find a way for it to work logically in the game we're just going to remove it?  Not a fan of that decision at all.

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11 hours ago, petro1319 said:

I don't like the change if that's the case.   I was OK with the ERS change last year because it responds more to how things really work.  I don't like the idea of removing the fuel mix settings though.  We know the engineers on the pit wall and drivers can change settings to increase engine power and technically therefore fuel usage as well.  I mean, we see/hear the calls all race long from the teams telling the drivers to adjust settings, or from the driver's requesting for more power when chasing down the leader.   So because they can't find a way for it to work logically in the game we're just going to remove it?  Not a fan of that decision at all.

I think strat modes are different to engine modes, which I think we are not seeing things in black and white. Otherwise, teams would be receiving penalties every race. I think the ban on engine modes requires more technical details to the fans. I don’t think it is that simple. 

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