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23 minutes ago, kalamazoo123 said:

Ok, so it’s 2 turns rather than 1, but they’re hardly “extensive” changes!

Six going by the picture above...

Personally I'd much rather have the tracks right rather than Braking Point by the way, but if all track making relating time/skills are focusing on the new tracks instead then I can see the argument for these being more important. As an outsider I have zero appreciation of the true complexity of making such changes, as I rather suspect you do too.

Edited by Ultra3142
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5 minutes ago, kalamazoo123 said:

Ok, so it’s 2 turns rather than 1, but they’re hardly “extensive” changes!

I can see 7 turns affected in that picture alone... including an entire removal of a chicane. 

Plus it's the butterfly effect. You make one small change (widening a corner by 2.5m) and you have to change an awful lot of AI behaviour. Then propagate that change across 6 other corners, including a lot higher speeds through 9/10 affecting braking for turn 11.  It's not just a graphical change. 

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  • PJTierney changed the title to F1 2021 Questions
6 hours ago, Krisperfectline said:

We really need to turn this game into simulation. I am glad they are making huge steps with the damage, the temperatures and the handling. I absolutely hated it when players can just easily stay within drs range without the power unit overheating and saving all their ERS. I really can’t believe that people prefer to know what Devon Butler is doing rather than making the tracks closer to the real life models and design. I can’t really say that those are real F1 fans to be honest, and that is a bit disappointing and a bit depressing to hear. This is probably the only way we can get close to the real feeling of the sport. I hope Breaking Point does, though, show us the business side, internal discussions of the sport though, like I don’t know…. For example maybe something like when Steiner was negotiating with sponsors in the Drive to Survive series. 

Turning F1 into a simulation would be nice and from what I understand from reviews F1 2021 has improvements in tire wear that are more realistic and damage to the car .  From the last few updates it appears they are slowly heading in that direction, EA may or may not continue in that direction, we shall see.  Like Barry said up thread the game is for a worldwide audience playing on multiple platforms so change is slow.  I also agree that tracks should be upgraded faster, which is do able, but totally depends on how tracks are implemented in the code, if the code was not written from the beginning with the ability to easily change tracks, then it just takes longer to implement, which is most likely why we do not get track DLC's too. 

If the worldwide community of F1 players want more simulation than game, they need to go to the top and express their desires, the top in this case is Liberty Media Formula One Group.  They own the license to the game and if enough people contact them direct and complain then it will happen.  A media company own the brand and they want that brand expanded as much as possible, especially in North America, which is why in the USA F1 is Live on ESPN without commercials, which means it is basically free if you have cable TV.  Sim Racing has exploded in the last year worldwide and Liberty Media wants to capitalize on that and most likely they do not know what the community wants in its game product all they see is how much money the game brings in licensing fees.  At a minimum a Liberty Media Group Suit will ask the EA Suit "W T F is going on with this game, why are the users complaining to us? Fix it." 

 

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1 minute ago, jpr3324 said:

Turning F1 into a simulation would be nice and from what I understand from reviews F1 2021 has improvements in tire wear that are more realistic and damage to the car .  From the last few updates it appears they are slowly heading in that direction, EA may or may not continue in that direction, we shall see.  Like Barry said up thread the game is for a worldwide audience playing on multiple platforms so change is slow.  I also agree that tracks should be upgraded faster, which is do able, but totally depends on how tracks are implemented in the code, if the code was not written from the beginning with the ability to easily change tracks, then it just takes longer to implement, which is most likely why we do not get track DLC's too. 

If the worldwide community of F1 players want more simulation than game, they need to go to the top and express their desires, the top in this case is Liberty Media Formula One Group.  They own the license to the game and if enough people contact them direct and complain then it will happen.  A media company own the brand and they want that brand expanded as much as possible, especially in North America, which is why in the USA F1 is Live on ESPN without commercials, which means it is basically free if you have cable TV.  Sim Racing has exploded in the last year worldwide and Liberty Media wants to capitalize on that and most likely they do not know what the community wants in its game product all they see is how much money the game brings in licensing fees.  At a minimum a Liberty Media Group Suit will ask the EA Suit "*** is going on with this game, why are the users complaining to us? Fix it." 

 

Yes.. and no.   You're completely right that things should be resemblant of an official season and with more support from EA coming next year, it's possible this is the last speedbump in the road and next year is much more aligned with realism. You'd prefer that. I'd prefer that. Codemasters would prefer that. 

However, he general aim of what Codemasters seems to do is to straddle the line between casual players and expert players. They want it to be fun for a total newbie to pick up a controller and be able to just drive around reasonably well. They also want professional eSports people to be able to ramp it around a track and feel like the physics are on point.

Improved levels of simulation are where it is creeping to, but without alienating the casual player. It's a 3+ game, i believe. A child isn't into simulation and just wants it to be fun and enjoyable, not with an intrinsic reflection on realistic scenarios. 

In regards to going to Liberty Media. Interesting idea but I think it'll be scoffed out the park. 

Hypothetical scenario;

Dave, 25, from Sunderland, UK. - Sends an email saying "I want my game to be better.".

Liberty's executive assistant to the VPs. - *reads email* "Oh, they should tell Codemasters" *send email to junk*  "Oh, this next email says Singapore have cancelled their Grand Prix. Damn, best get on that."  They have far bigger priorities than whether the game has updated tracks or not. 

 

You've already bought the game. You'll buy next years game. You'll buy the one after that. Liberty wouldn't care too much about whether it's the perfect article of your enjoyment, just whether you'll come back next year.  Until a true competitor to Codemasters comes out, this is all you have as a licensed representation of F1 al and if they alienate the casual player, the game sells less as people buy more relaxed racing alternatives. Liberty and EA see the drop in sales and complain to Codemasters, threatening to pull funding. The next game reverts back to a balance of simulation/casual play with no drive to deviate from that pathway again. They have no choice as they'd have no money to invest without funding if they stay on the simulation path and the game will die without financial input within 5 years. You've just killed F1 2025. Boo. 

The game sells. That's the bottom line.  Until it sells less than expected, they won't change it too drastically. 

In regards to people complaining about the game, people will ALWAYS complain. About whatever they can. Players have a dislike and they complain. The company resolves the complaint. Players finds new things to complain about.  It's the cycle that has always been. It's the cycle that will always be. For the company, it's about choosing which complaints to resolve, and when, as the next one will be just around the corner.

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6 hours ago, Krisperfectline said:

We really need to turn this game into simulation. I am glad they are making huge steps with the damage, the temperatures and the handling. I absolutely hated it when players can just easily stay within drs range without the power unit overheating and saving all their ERS. I really can’t believe that people prefer to know what Devon Butler is doing rather than making the tracks closer to the real life models and design. I can’t really say that those are real F1 fans to be honest, and that is a bit disappointing and a bit depressing to hear. This is probably the only way we can get close to the real feeling of the sport. I hope Breaking Point does, though, show us the business side, internal discussions of the sport though, like I don’t know…. For example maybe something like when Steiner was negotiating with sponsors in the Drive to Survive series. 

Absolutely , I've said it before and I'll say it again, this game could be AMZAZING but it is being held back by a bunch of people who should be playing Grid or some other Fun little racerboy title , their one foot in one foot out stance is making the game a Joke, but that's how it is and until some developer decides to go all in and choose serious over 'doing it for the kids' then the code masters version of the game will be the only Official choice and due to the established customer base will  always be an Arcade style game , Its ok and looks good but its such a shame because its so close to being there that to have it like it is just seems such a waste. As you said its a little depressing really. If you go back to older titles and play minus the  Elton John , Liberace content  ' Ive had an idea' days It feels great and you can imagine a world that doesn't so closely resemble hell. It hasn't happened to Dirt Rally yet but it will be interesting to see the outcome of that if some one starts interfering with that title with some xxxxxxy little story about Devons butlers brother Cornwall. Anyway what can you do , the general consensus is usually the compromised option that's the way it rolls ..........https://youtu.be/P8Wdn4hM4UI

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9 hours ago, Sector4 said:

image.jpg

 

I'm not very good at math so I might be wrong but I think there's more than 1 corner that needs changing for Australia.

But I'm pretty sure Codemasters is banking on the race not happening in 2021 (or might know it already) so that's why they're implementing the chances for F1 2022 at the earliest.

Ahh, sorry; I forgot about the slight adjustment of T13 and the other minor adjustments widening corners.  Still, it's not like we're remaking half of the track here.  I stand by my comments of there really is no excuse for the F1 2021 game to be released without these adjustments as long as they've been known about.  We're not reinventing an entire circuit here.  Again; I do believe that the 3 new tracks should be there for launch as well; but I can completely understand that's an immense amount of work compared to the changes at Spain and Melborne.  I can defend them on the new tracks as much as I don't like it; but the adjustments to spain & australia.  Nope; sorry.   Should be done; just like the game should ship with the F2 2021 roster/cars; not last years.  I'm actually quite surprised that with EA's muscle behind this now (albeit early in that process) that they would be ok with releasing it without those adjustments.

The game is meant to replicate the season.  Again; I can understand the new tracks issue they weren't exactly announced well ahead of time for this year; but small changes to the two existing circuits should certainly be in.

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11 minutes ago, petro1319 said:

Ahh, sorry; I forgot about the slight adjustment of T13 and the other minor adjustments widening corners.  Still, it's not like we're remaking half of the track here.  I stand by my comments of there really is no excuse for the F1 2021 game to be released without these adjustments as long as they've been known about.  We're not reinventing an entire circuit here.  Again; I do believe that the 3 new tracks should be there for launch as well; but I can completely understand that's an immense amount of work compared to the changes at Spain and Melborne.  I can defend them on the new tracks as much as I don't like it; but the adjustments to spain & australia.  Nope; sorry.   Should be done; just like the game should ship with the F2 2021 roster/cars; not last years.  I'm actually quite surprised that with EA's muscle behind this now (albeit early in that process) that they would be ok with releasing it without those adjustments.

The game is meant to replicate the season.  Again; I can understand the new tracks issue they weren't exactly announced well ahead of time for this year; but small changes to the two existing circuits should certainly be in.

I still think you're massively underestimating consequentiality. 

For example, i'll randomly choose a corner that is being changed in Australia but I could do it for any of them that are changing. 

Old Turn 9/10; 

You come around the curve of turn 8 and (hypothetically)  are travelling at 160mph and usually you'll stick to the left of the track and you'll be braking for turn 9 while halving that speed, putting g-force and loads on parts of your car and driver under braking, putting wear on the tires and heating up your brakes. Then you'd turn right and the load would change to the inverse side of the car. That would then be immediately followed by turn 10 where, by turning left. the load is completely flipped to the reverse side. Then you accelerate towards turn 11 as your brakes cool to lukewarm and you reach it at about 190mph before you need to brake again. 

New turn 9/10.

You come out of turn 8 at 160 mph, you head towards the new turn 9 and you don't brake but you drift over to the right hand side of the track to minimise the corner. You just keep accelerating and your brakes keep cooling since the last time you braked. You accelerate all the way to turn 11 (now turn 10) at 220mph with cold brakes. 

 

That's one corner that has changed and it's affected the behaviour from the corner before and the behaviour to the corner after as the car will now behave entirely differently when you approach turn 11. Your brakes are colder, your engine is hotter due to constant speed behind the car ahead, no airwash from the change of direction in the 9/10 chicane. no tyre wear under braking as it's been constant acceleration, the fuel usage has changed as you're not coasting, or accelerating in lower gears. Those changes affect your approach to turn 11 which immediately has turn 12 so if you screw up 11, you've ballsed that one too. You'll struggle down to 12 which is another radically changed corner. Every change they make feeds into further down the circuit.

And that is only on one particular AI difficulty as they'll do different things (speeds, braking distance, defending and attacking) on each setting. It's also in one weather condition as you'll have to do different things for each weather situation. It only concerns one track/air temperature setting as this has a massive effect on how the car behaves.  You have to model behaviour when you're following a car and when not following a car. You have to change behaviour of the AI when you're side by side with them as you go around the curve so they don't just punt you in the wall by following their old line. You have to factor in how much tyre wear you already have. Taking the corner with 1% tyre wear is different to 30% tyre wear which is different to 70% tyre wear. So many factors affect behaviours.

 

That one corner has changed your fuel usage, your tyre usage, your flow of the race and every other aspect of your race. Hell, it's even affected the amount of gear changes you'd have to make and that gearbox wear could affect whether you'd need a new gearbox or not further down the line if you're doing it throughout a full-length race. So, when one corner out of 7 can effect so much, both in a race and in a season, i'd say it's pretty important to get it right. 

By the looks of it, there's alot less heavy braking as you're maintaining more speed through 1, carrying a little more through 3, braking a medium amount for 4 and then a tiny amount for 8 unless you're brave. By the time you've even approached turn 9/10, the car is already behaving differently to what it did on this iteration of the game.

 

You say "it's just a few corners" but it's not. It's really not. It's basically a whole new track for Australia as every miniscule change affects the rest of that lap.

Spain is easier to change as it is only one corner that is pretty much negated when you get to the chicane but that will still require a fair chunk of behavioural changes throughout a race.

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4 hours ago, Exasperated said:

Absolutely , I've said it before and I'll say it again, this game could be AMZAZING but it is being held back by a bunch of people who should be playing Grid or some other Fun little racerboy title , their one foot in one foot out stance is making the game a Joke, but that's how it is and until some developer decides to go all in and choose serious over 'doing it for the kids' then the code masters version of the game will be the only Official choice and due to the established customer base will  always be an Arcade style game , Its ok and looks good but its such a shame because its so close to being there that to have it like it is just seems such a waste. As you said its a little depressing really. If you go back to older titles and play minus the  Elton John , Liberace content  ' Ive had an idea' days It feels great and you can imagine a world that doesn't so closely resemble hell. It hasn't happened to Dirt Rally yet but it will be interesting to see the outcome of that if some one starts interfering with that title with some xxxxxxy little story about Devons butlers brother Cornwall. Anyway what can you do , the general consensus is usually the compromised option that's the way it rolls ..........https://youtu.be/P8Wdn4hM4UI

At the end of the day, the series has never advertised itself to be a full-simulator, but a game of F1.

For something that's related to such a major global sport, its goal will always be aiming at reaching the widest audiences possible. Sim is great, but unfortunately it's too out of reach for majority of the people to really enjoy its full magic.

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26 minutes ago, DRTApophis said:

At the end of the day, the series has never advertised itself to be a full-simulator, but a game of F1.

For something that's related to such a major global sport, its goal will always be aiming at reaching the widest audiences possible. Sim is great, but unfortunately it's too out of reach for majority of the people to really enjoy its full magic.

It's genuinely not worth it, he's heard your point a hundred times. 

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1 hour ago, DRTApophis said:

At the end of the day, the series has never advertised itself to be a full-simulator, but a game of F1.

For something that's related to such a major global sport, its goal will always be aiming at reaching the widest audiences possible. Sim is great, but unfortunately it's too out of reach for majority of the people to really enjoy its full magic.

Absolutely totally understood , I've said it endlessly on here myself. .........he replied to me , I replied to him. Its a shame our views are different on the matter but you will find that in life not everyone holds the same view. Its just a fact of life , Personally I don't care about it being inclusive as a game , of course I understand why the game is like it is and it is not to make it inclusive its to make as much money as possible ; obviously , F1 IRL is an Elitist Sport ; not everyone can participate. So what would be so odd about a game about it not being accessible to all , People on here waffle on endlessly about this is not real and that's not real ( While driving in T-Cam on a wheel) LMAO how about making the F1 game more real by making the F1 part as near as a simulation as it could be ( You can't make a simulation of F1 for multi platform use it is impossible) given the limitations of the Hardware that gamers can afford and take Devons butler and stick him in a more appropriate place like the F2 part of the game and while we are at It transfer 'the pits' pass with all the nonsense Elton John deck chair helmet and car paint jobs( JHC you kids/Kidults) etc and then youngsters and Kidults can amuse themselves to their hearts content in the F2 class which is perfectly suited to being more Arcade like because the cars are equal, It is after all the feeder series into F1 so youngsters could prepare their race craft in F2 in an arcadey type game before moving up into a simulation type of game that F1 would be , NO ITS NOT GOING TO BE A FULl SIM I understand that , I have already said that , but it it could be a lot more like real life F1 ........., " but its going to cost lots of money "whimper whimper .  The games already unbelievably cheap for what you get , Don't make me larf.  Anyway that's my "I've got an idea " sorted ..........Enjoy.

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12 hours ago, Sector4 said:

image.jpg

 

I'm not very good at math so I might be wrong but I think there's more than 1 corner that needs changing for Australia.

But I'm pretty sure Codemasters is banking on the race not happening in 2021 (or might know it already) so that's why they're implementing the chances for F1 2022 at the earliest.

If I was to say that this track required more than a week of modifications, I would be exaggerating. The Barcelona circuit would require even less time. CM should have put more effort into updated these tracks for the launch date, given that no one knows when the three new track will be ready for the game. As it stands, the game will be launch with just the old tracks.  

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3 hours ago, Exasperated said:

Absolutely totally understood , I've said it endlessly on here myself. .........he replied to me , I replied to him. Its a shame our views are different on the matter but you will find that in life not everyone holds the same view. Its just a fact of life , Personally I don't care about it being inclusive as a game , of course I understand why the game is like it is and it is not to make it inclusive its to make as much money as possible ; obviously , F1 IRL is an Elitist Sport ; not everyone can participate. So what would be so odd about a game about it not being accessible to all , People on here waffle on endlessly about this is not real and that's not real ( While driving in T-Cam on a wheel) LMAO how about making the F1 game more real by making the F1 part as near as a simulation as it could be ( You can't make a simulation of F1 for multi platform use it is impossible) given the limitations of the Hardware that gamers can afford and take Devons butler and stick him in a more appropriate place like the F2 part of the game and while we are at It transfer 'the pits' pass with all the nonsense Elton John deck chair helmet and car paint jobs( JHC you kids/Kidults) etc and then youngsters and Kidults can amuse themselves to their hearts content in the F2 class which is perfectly suited to being more Arcade like because the cars are equal, It is after all the feeder series into F1 so youngsters could prepare their race craft in F2 in an arcadey type game before moving up into a simulation type of game that F1 would be , NO ITS NOT GOING TO BE A FULl SIM I understand that , I have already said that , but it it could be a lot more like real life F1 ........., " but its going to cost lots of money "whimper whimper .  The games already unbelievably cheap for what you get , Don't make me larf.  Anyway that's my "I've got an idea " sorted ..........Enjoy.

Some salient points in here, yeah. 
I think F1 being an elitist sport is a very important factor… just in the opposite way you’re implying.  The fact that the Average Joe cannot be a formula one driver in real life is negated that, due to the game, they can pretend to be. That’s part of the appeal.   Making it a full sim (or close to) takes that away from them if they aren’t competent in a sim format. 
I agree with your derision towards the podium pass items. 90-95% of them weren’t anything that remotely appealed to me. However, I wouldn’t want to take them away from the people that did like them as there’s no need for me to be selfish about something like that. 
If money is the issue then it’s just how much you’re willing to spend. Codemasters want the money, you want the game to be more realistic.  If they’ve alienated the casual part of their fanbase then equalling that out by charging their sim fanbase more means everyone wins.. except the kids with no money. 
I get your points and they’re valid. I just think the aim of the game should be about bringing such a unique sport to the masses and giving people an opportunity to step into a world they never normally would.  Ostracising them for not being comfortable with Sim racing is the antithesis of the business model. 

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2 hours ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

Some salient points in here, yeah. 
I think F1 being an elitist sport is a very important factor… just in the opposite way you’re implying.  The fact that the Average Joe cannot be a formula one driver in real life is negated that, due to the game, they can pretend to be. That’s part of the appeal.   Making it a full sim (or close to) takes that away from them if they aren’t competent in a sim format. 
I agree with your derision towards the podium pass items. 90-95% of them weren’t anything that remotely appealed to me. However, I wouldn’t want to take them away from the people that did like them as there’s no need for me to be selfish about something like that. 
If money is the issue then it’s just how much you’re willing to spend. Codemasters want the money, you want the game to be more realistic.  If they’ve alienated the casual part of their fanbase then equalling that out by charging their sim fanbase more means everyone wins.. except the kids with no money. 
I get your points and they’re valid. I just think the aim of the game should be about bringing such a unique sport to the masses and giving people an opportunity to step into a world they never normally would.  Ostracising them for not being comfortable with Sim racing is the antithesis of the business model. 

The voice of reason and well put , my statement was just a balancing of the books to be honest. Its an idea for a version of the game that could appeal to some less reasonable types , but we are on a particular road here and passing milestones , you know it and I know it , they don't; hence the fight back in fear of loss.

Its ping pong , .......now which are your favourite oven gloves , I prefer the ones inspired by the 'Borderlands' series , and  oddly enough I used to live in Devon and he looks a lot better on the inside.

Regards.

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18 hours ago, DRTApophis said:

At the end of the day, the series has never advertised itself to be a full-simulator, but a game of F1.

For something that's related to such a major global sport, its goal will always be aiming at reaching the widest audiences possible. Sim is great, but unfortunately it's too out of reach for majority of the people to really enjoy its full magic.

It’s a shame really. But at least they are going closer to a simulator. Although one thing I want to know, is the percentage of players playing on a controller be it PS4, PS5 or Xbox at Ultimate difficulty (101-110). Because I imagine it is difficult to play on a controller and going on at decent speeds without committing too many errors. I play on 105 difficulty. I think the reason, personally, is because of the difficulty in enjoying the game on a controller because a decent wheel is quite costly. 
 

Well, they are starting to implement sliders, so I think we can all say it’s a step forward?

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16 hours ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

Some salient points in here, yeah. 
I think F1 being an elitist sport is a very important factor… just in the opposite way you’re implying.  The fact that the Average Joe cannot be a formula one driver in real life is negated that, due to the game, they can pretend to be. That’s part of the appeal.   Making it a full sim (or close to) takes that away from them if they aren’t competent in a sim format. 
I agree with your derision towards the podium pass items. 90-95% of them weren’t anything that remotely appealed to me. However, I wouldn’t want to take them away from the people that did like them as there’s no need for me to be selfish about something like that. 
If money is the issue then it’s just how much you’re willing to spend. Codemasters want the money, you want the game to be more realistic.  If they’ve alienated the casual part of their fanbase then equalling that out by charging their sim fanbase more means everyone wins.. except the kids with no money. 
I get your points and they’re valid. I just think the aim of the game should be about bringing such a unique sport to the masses and giving people an opportunity to step into a world they never normally would.  Ostracising them for not being comfortable with Sim racing is the antithesis of the business model. 

I'm one of those who enjoy the contents in the podium pass, of course there's no way anyone would like all the liveries there but isn't that just normal? We do that all the time window-shopping in real life, right? 

The real issue is how the livery system works, its function is too bare-boned, decals not having outline option is the biggest issue here because the liveries often had sections that cross through where the sponsor decals located, it really limited the color you could use without making the decal blending into the livery and disappeared. 

With outline for decals I'm confident to make even the most ridiculous looking livery we've right now to becoming something cool and believable in real life, the choices really are not as bad as most people think.

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On 6/12/2021 at 3:04 PM, DRTApophis said:

I'm one of those who enjoy the contents in the podium pass, of course there's no way anyone would like all the liveries there but isn't that just normal? We do that all the time window-shopping in real life, right? 

The real issue is how the livery system works, its function is too bare-boned, decals not having outline option is the biggest issue here because the liveries often had sections that cross through where the sponsor decals located, it really limited the color you could use without making the decal blending into the livery and disappeared. 

With outline for decals I'm confident to make even the most ridiculous looking livery we've right now to becoming something cool and believable in real life, the choices really are not as bad as most people think.

I understand that point of view, yeah.  I'm not saying the idea of the podium pass was a fallacy but I think the customisation requires alot of fine-tuning. Like you said, the detailing sometime passes through the sponsors and the aesthetic is awkward.  However, that was far from the only gripe people had with the inflexibility of the sponsor placement. 

I spent two years with the Mecha livery which is probably as chaotic as it really gets if you get the colours wrong but it really worked for the team. So, with the right amount of effort, you could probably make any of them work.

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12 hours ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

I spent two years with the Mecha livery which is probably as chaotic as it really gets if you get the colours wrong but it really worked for the team. So, with the right amount of effort, you could probably make any of them work.

The Cutout livery from '20 was my favourite, all those little details like "engine goes here" and "this (wheel) is a spinny bit" were fun to see 🙂 

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So, are they finally going to implement mouse support?

And the ability to actually have my steering wheel display and shakers working at the same time and not choose between using one or the other?

If not I will pass on it yet again.

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On 6/11/2021 at 10:46 AM, SmokyAtom07 said:

I still think you're massively underestimating consequentiality. 

For example, i'll randomly choose a corner that is being changed in Australia but I could do it for any of them that are changing. 

Old Turn 9/10; 

You come around the curve of turn 8 and (hypothetically)  are travelling at 160mph and usually you'll stick to the left of the track and you'll be braking for turn 9 while halving that speed, putting g-force and loads on parts of your car and driver under braking, putting wear on the tires and heating up your brakes. Then you'd turn right and the load would change to the inverse side of the car. That would then be immediately followed by turn 10 where, by turning left. the load is completely flipped to the reverse side. Then you accelerate towards turn 11 as your brakes cool to lukewarm and you reach it at about 190mph before you need to brake again. 

New turn 9/10.

You come out of turn 8 at 160 mph, you head towards the new turn 9 and you don't brake but you drift over to the right hand side of the track to minimise the corner. You just keep accelerating and your brakes keep cooling since the last time you braked. You accelerate all the way to turn 11 (now turn 10) at 220mph with cold brakes. 

 

That's one corner that has changed and it's affected the behaviour from the corner before and the behaviour to the corner after as the car will now behave entirely differently when you approach turn 11. Your brakes are colder, your engine is hotter due to constant speed behind the car ahead, no airwash from the change of direction in the 9/10 chicane. no tyre wear under braking as it's been constant acceleration, the fuel usage has changed as you're not coasting, or accelerating in lower gears. Those changes affect your approach to turn 11 which immediately has turn 12 so if you screw up 11, you've ballsed that one too. You'll struggle down to 12 which is another radically changed corner. Every change they make feeds into further down the circuit.

And that is only on one particular AI difficulty as they'll do different things (speeds, braking distance, defending and attacking) on each setting. It's also in one weather condition as you'll have to do different things for each weather situation. It only concerns one track/air temperature setting as this has a massive effect on how the car behaves.  You have to model behaviour when you're following a car and when not following a car. You have to change behaviour of the AI when you're side by side with them as you go around the curve so they don't just punt you in the wall by following their old line. You have to factor in how much tyre wear you already have. Taking the corner with 1% tyre wear is different to 30% tyre wear which is different to 70% tyre wear. So many factors affect behaviours.

 

That one corner has changed your fuel usage, your tyre usage, your flow of the race and every other aspect of your race. Hell, it's even affected the amount of gear changes you'd have to make and that gearbox wear could affect whether you'd need a new gearbox or not further down the line if you're doing it throughout a full-length race. So, when one corner out of 7 can effect so much, both in a race and in a season, i'd say it's pretty important to get it right. 

By the looks of it, there's alot less heavy braking as you're maintaining more speed through 1, carrying a little more through 3, braking a medium amount for 4 and then a tiny amount for 8 unless you're brave. By the time you've even approached turn 9/10, the car is already behaving differently to what it did on this iteration of the game.

 

You say "it's just a few corners" but it's not. It's really not. It's basically a whole new track for Australia as every miniscule change affects the rest of that lap.

Spain is easier to change as it is only one corner that is pretty much negated when you get to the chicane but that will still require a fair chunk of behavioural changes throughout a race.

Thats all great.  Really; it is.   However, lets keep this in perspective here.  It's their job to make the F1 2021 video game.  They seem to pride themselves on it replicating the real season as that's often been the reasoning behind why certain things in the past weren't done.  Heck, it was a common reasoning for new tracks not being added last year... "the game was meant to replicate the 2020 season and schedule"  So, here we are in 2021 with changes made to existing tracks and now were being told the opposite.  Fact of the matter is it's their job to make a game that replicates the real season, cars, circuits.  Get the job done.   I'm not sure why some are so quick to make excuses here.  Look; I love this series.  It's my most played game every year.  I think they do a fantastic job with it for the most part.   Not updating tracks that everyone knew were changing months ago is inexcusable IMO.  I cant understand some of the other circuits not being in, and the constant changes to the calendar making that a difficult task. I can completely understand why those 3 aren't ready for launch.  However regardless of if what you say is the process or not and how involved it is and how true all that is; it doesn't matter.  It's their job.  It's been widely known these changes were coming.  Just do it; enough excuses.  That would be like the NHL hockey series releasing next year without the new Seattle team.   Oops...  Sorry, we didn't get to that.   Or Fifa releasing without Manchester United because they couldn't update something in time.  At the end of the day when you're in the business of making video games, and one that has you replicating a real life sport as lifelike as possible things like this are inexcusable in my books.  You can defend it all you want and think I'm unreasonable; that's fine because I think the same of the opposite opinion of this.   Doesn't mean I hate the game, or Codies etc. etc.  the reality there is quite the opposite.  I just don't want excuses, when the excuse being used is now countering what was being said last year for other additions people asked for. 

Don't worry though; I'm sure we'll have a bunch of shiny new cartoonish liveries, suits, emotes, and poses to buy throughout the game's life cycle though!  So; that's exciting.

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6 hours ago, petro1319 said:

Or Fifa releasing without Manchester United because they couldn't update something in time. 

A little hyperbolic, it's more like Man Utd shipping with the wrong colour socks. I'm sure we can live with it. 

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7 hours ago, petro1319 said:

Thats all great.  Really; it is.   However, lets keep this in perspective here.  It's their job to make the F1 2021 video game.  They seem to pride themselves on it replicating the real season as that's often been the reasoning behind why certain things in the past weren't done.  Heck, it was a common reasoning for new tracks not being added last year... "the game was meant to replicate the 2020 season and schedule"  So, here we are in 2021 with changes made to existing tracks and now were being told the opposite.  Fact of the matter is it's their job to make a game that replicates the real season, cars, circuits.  Get the job done.   I'm not sure why some are so quick to make excuses here.  Look; I love this series.  It's my most played game every year.  I think they do a fantastic job with it for the most part.   Not updating tracks that everyone knew were changing months ago is inexcusable IMO.  I cant understand some of the other circuits not being in, and the constant changes to the calendar making that a difficult task. I can completely understand why those 3 aren't ready for launch.  However regardless of if what you say is the process or not and how involved it is and how true all that is; it doesn't matter.  It's their job.  It's been widely known these changes were coming.  Just do it; enough excuses.  That would be like the NHL hockey series releasing next year without the new Seattle team.   Oops...  Sorry, we didn't get to that.   Or Fifa releasing without Manchester United because they couldn't update something in time.  At the end of the day when you're in the business of making video games, and one that has you replicating a real life sport as lifelike as possible things like this are inexcusable in my books.  You can defend it all you want and think I'm unreasonable; that's fine because I think the same of the opposite opinion of this.   Doesn't mean I hate the game, or Codies etc. etc.  the reality there is quite the opposite.  I just don't want excuses, when the excuse being used is now countering what was being said last year for other additions people asked for. 

Don't worry though; I'm sure we'll have a bunch of shiny new cartoonish liveries, suits, emotes, and poses to buy throughout the game's life cycle though!  So; that's exciting.

While I agree with your general sentiment that the game should be as realistic and based on real-life as possible, I do feel like you demean your point with hyperbolic statements like the Manchester United one (however, some games like Football Manager actually don't include Manchester United due to licensing issues beyond just the premier league not being licensed and even Modders have legal issues by putting them in).  If they had took Australia and Spain out of the game because they couldn't update them in time then, yes, your point would be somewhere in the ballpark of being relevant. However, they compromised by just using last years.

Also, I get the NHL point but, in honesty, firstly the market for hockey (as far as i'm aware) is alot less worldwide than Formula One. If you're supplying a product for a larger demographic then there is more of an emphasis on the quality. Secondly, the problem is also on a different scale as well. Them not including something like Seattle joining the league would be akin to them not putting Haas in when they started a few years ago. 

Months creating basically a whole new track for Australia and a few weeks of work for the Spain one. is alot bigger expenditure of time, effort and resource that you still seem to be underestimating.

 

I do feel that shouldn't take away from the fact that I agree with your overarching point that you'd expect it to be fully up-to-date, just that I feel your expectations were a little high in times of pandemic.  However, with EA resource coming for the next game or two (confirmed by Lee Mather stating EA were offering some of their capabilities), it'd be harder to make excuses for them from now on. 

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On 6/11/2021 at 7:52 PM, LEWISt17KIMI said:

If I was to say that this track required more than a week of modifications, I would be exaggerating. The Barcelona circuit would require even less time. CM should have put more effort into updated these tracks for the launch date, given that no one knows when the three new track will be ready for the game. As it stands, the game will be launch with just the old tracks.  

I think you underestimate the work that has to be done to change a track in a game. It would take a whole lot more than a week to change everything, from visuals to physics, from AI behaviour to all info around it (career mode practice programs, the introduction of the circuit by your engineer and the commentary team etc). Besides that, it's not just making the changes, it's also getting approval from the FOM which may take weeks, it takes time to test everything, tweak as needed and test again.

 

Even besides all the things mentioned above, the track is not even finished in real life nor is it sure that F1 will actually race there.

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6 hours ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

While I agree with your general sentiment that the game should be as realistic and based on real-life as possible, I do feel like you demean your point with hyperbolic statements like the Manchester United one (however, some games like Football Manager actually don't include Manchester United due to licensing issues beyond just the premier league not being licensed and even Modders have legal issues by putting them in).  If they had took Australia and Spain out of the game because they couldn't update them in time then, yes, your point would be somewhere in the ballpark of being relevant. However, they compromised by just using last years.

Also, I get the NHL point but, in honesty, firstly the market for hockey (as far as i'm aware) is alot less worldwide than Formula One. If you're supplying a product for a larger demographic then there is more of an emphasis on the quality. Secondly, the problem is also on a different scale as well. Them not including something like Seattle joining the league would be akin to them not putting Haas in when they started a few years ago. 

Months creating basically a whole new track for Australia and a few weeks of work for the Spain one. is alot bigger expenditure of time, effort and resource that you still seem to be underestimating.

 

I do feel that shouldn't take away from the fact that I agree with your overarching point that you'd expect it to be fully up-to-date, just that I feel your expectations were a little high in times of pandemic.  However, with EA resource coming for the next game or two (confirmed by Lee Mather stating EA were offering some of their capabilities), it'd be harder to make excuses for them from now on. 

We can all sit here and over, or underestimate it as much as we want, the fact of the matter is none of us know because it's not our job to do, it's theirs.  The optics here sure seem to show that they were more focused on a story mode, and simplifying career/my team R&D modes than they were adjusting the tracks already in the game.  And also as I stated I'm sure we'll have another full slate of weekly items to "buy".   Although I'm sure alot of that will be recycled too.  To me it's just typical of video game company's now.  There's no accountability for them.  They release buggy games constantly; leave things unfinished and unaddressed etc. etc.  I'm making a general statement here of course; not directed at Codies.  Again, as I've stated I think they do a fantastic job with this series all things considered.  I just feel like the focus has been off for this year on the things important to the player base, as they try to grow/expand that player base and make it more accessible sacrificing the things the fans of this series would really want to see.   If they said the changes to Australia and Spain were coming down the line; I could get on board with that; same with the 3 new tracks but the apparent message that seems to be out there about it not happening at all; that's the part that really rubs me the wrong way as somone who buys this game yearly since it hit consoles and plays it constantly.

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33 minutes ago, petro1319 said:

We can all sit here and over, or underestimate it as much as we want, the fact of the matter is none of us know because it's not our job to do, it's theirs.  The optics here sure seem to show that they were more focused on a story mode, and simplifying career/my team R&D modes than they were adjusting the tracks already in the game.  And also as I stated I'm sure we'll have another full slate of weekly items to "buy".   Although I'm sure alot of that will be recycled too.  To me it's just typical of video game company's now.  There's no accountability for them.  They release buggy games constantly; leave things unfinished and unaddressed etc. etc.  I'm making a general statement here of course; not directed at Codies.  Again, as I've stated I think they do a fantastic job with this series all things considered.  I just feel like the focus has been off for this year on the things important to the player base, as they try to grow/expand that player base and make it more accessible sacrificing the things the fans of this series would really want to see.   If they said the changes to Australia and Spain were coming down the line; I could get on board with that; same with the 3 new tracks but the apparent message that seems to be out there about it not happening at all; that's the part that really rubs me the wrong way as somone who buys this game yearly since it hit consoles and plays it constantly.

You're not fundamentally wrong.  There are issues with accountability once companies have monopolised a market as they tend to get lax with some things. I do think Codemasters are making concerted efforts to continue improving (such as adding new game modes, more customisation) but I agree that sometimes the playerbase can be quite divided on which avenue to focus on.

In an ideal world, i'd personally would want loads of playable tracks. I'd want about 30-40ish in the game. The 23 that are actually in the plan for the season then places like Hockenheim, Turkey, Nurburgring, Malaysia, etc. That way I can mix up different seasons and stop it getting stagnant by doing the same ones over and over. If they had done that instead of the Braking Point then i'd have been content as it covers more what i'd play but I won't throw my toys out the pram because they did something that isn't in-line with my hopes for the series. as they're making a game for millions of people worldwide, not just a few people like me. Therefore I don't see them as sacrificing things the fans of the series want as they are generally fans of the sport as well as fans of the game series. 

I'm generally impartial to the customisation on the podium pass. It's there, it's nice to earn things but generally i'll choose 2-3 style alternatives and then ignore the rest. However, the more options there are, the wider range of people it could cater to. I don't see any reason why they'd deviate from that one year after introducing it so I expect it will be the same as last year, with the same or very similar items. 

 

Would I have liked Spain and Australia to be updated? Sure. Am I going to say that my experience this year will be ruined as it doesn't look like it does in real life?  Probably not.  If it's still the same next year, then maybe. Although they'd be designing Miami next year so we shall see what else changes trackwise. 

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