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Excited about Finland but... Jumps?

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The cars currently have some 'weird' behaviors when getting air. Most importantly, it seems they always take off with a pitch up attitude. This is the most extreme example I have experienced but most jumps go very similarly: 

http://youtu.be/d83hSF4Rov0

Notice how I let off the gas jump before the car gets airborne but the nose still pitches up. The same thing happens even if I brake just before the jump. I'm thinking this will make navigating the Finnish stages an exercise in frustration. I remember one of the devs talking about how Finland's stages prompted them to look into improving the physics and I got the idea this was the sort of thing they were talking about. If that's true it will be cool to see what improvements will be made, if not however, this needs to be addressed at some point as it makes negotiating jumps completely unpredictable. It is tricky IRL too, but with experience you can predict where the car will go. Currently in DR I am at a point where I go to great lengths to not get any air. The cars also bottom out almost every single time after jumping unless, I imagine, you have a tarmac suspension setup which I haven't tried. After bottoming out the front wheels (and only the front wheels) often jump in the air again. I don't know if this is an issue with the suspension (road car dampers?) or maybe having way too much weight at the front of the car (this could probably also explain the extreme understeer in most 4WD cars). 

Possibly related is the behavior when touching a dirt bank at the side of the road. IRL if you are turning and you hit something (dirt bank, rock) hard enough with the front inside wheel, the two inside wheels will lift off, whereas in DR the two front wheels lift off. 

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Watching the video it looks to me like your front springs are stiffer than the rear and you kind of slammed into it like you bottomed out. I am able to adjust the pitch at launch to some degree, and in the Subaru my jumps are much more level than that one. I am not even sure I could get that much pitch if I tried given my setup, so I suggest playing with spring stiffness and ride height.

I am actually really looking forward to having to learn how to launch more skillfully to survive Finland. It pretty much handles itself on these tracks in my experience.

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As I said, this is the most extreme example, first time I've seen it as pronounced as well. It's not a setup issue though, it's a physics issue. It happens in every jump no matter how smooth the takeoff. 

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Well with pikes peak there was further developments in aerodynamics, Germany there was Tarmac physics updates, so I expect with jumps being a big part of Finland, they will look at airborne physics. We will just have to wait and see

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WasabiWei said:
Watching the video it looks to me like your front springs are stiffer than the rear and you kind of slammed into it like you bottomed out. I am able to adjust the pitch at launch to some degree, and in the Subaru my jumps are much more level than that one. I am not even sure I could get that much pitch if I tried given my setup, so I suggest playing with spring stiffness and ride height.

I am actually really looking forward to having to learn how to launch more skillfully to survive Finland. It pretty much handles itself on these tracks in my experience.
I'm with you on that one, especially with the Impreza I had to adjust the springs/damper qiute a bit to get rid of this effect. My first thought reading the OP was exactly this, so I can only second your suggestion (;

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Hello, it happens because in rally cars there isn't any type of inertia! In rallycross update they edited mass movement (inertia, because they wasn't doing it righ) and the rallyorss cars are doing jump in pretty realistic way! Topic CLOSED :D BTW: Airborne physics let me laught :D no offence :relaxed: 

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This is not my native langugae, so i have small problems with it. I've mean they wasn't doing it right(mass movement).

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Hi, 
Time to show out one of my suggestions. Highly related.
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/19018/improvement-snow-gravel-roadside-banks-and-other-objects


But I have to disagree with @Kosmo17 because of this:
SETUP - SETUP- SETUP & ,yes, SETUP.

If your car rebounds in "landing" after a jump, I´m 99% sure it is a bad suspension setup ... and default setups are very poor.
In gravel, softer dampers (specially slow/fast rebound) and springs are usually needed. Also loosen antirrols a bit.
Dunno, there are many critical setup points and this is not a setup thread.

Understeering is also a behavior that can be highly corrected by setup. Obviously, the driver´s hands are important to create oversteer and get rid of understeer when it appears.


So, I´m absolutly not afraid of Finland and I´m quite sure the cars will go fine through there.

The only thing that I really think must be focused, fixed, improved, reworked... is the one linked above.
It creates very weird situations and jeopardize the whole harmony of the other good looking physics of the game.

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I'm quite excited for Finland I must admit. I think driving a 205 T16 flat out through the long stages is going to be a hell of a challenge. 

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I'm quite excited for Finland I must admit. I think driving a 205 T16 flat out through the long stages is going to be a hell of a challenge. 
that is basically me for months after finland is released B)

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I thinks it's also important the lack of oversteer of the cars. In fast corners, the loss of grip is simulated with understeer and barely any oversteer. Even with handbrake, the rear end of the car is a little bit grippy in my opinion. 

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Thanks for the replies guys, but the issues are not setup related. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. Piotr, thanks man, it just occurred to me after you said that, that the RX cars indeed feel much more natural over jumps and bumps. 

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Kosmo17 said:
Thanks for the replies guys, but the issues are not setup related. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. Piotr, thanks man, it just occurred to me after you said that, that the RX cars indeed feel much more natural over jumps and bumps. 
Kosmo, bud, its just setup. Trust me. Just give it a try and play with suspension values. I assure you will find a suitable setup for your taste. :smile: 

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I don't know how suspension setup can change direction of the fly, can you explain? He isn't talking about landing, but  "Notice how I let off the gas jump before the car gets airborne but the nose still pitches up. The same thing happens even if I brake just before the jump"

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OzoreXS said:
Kosmo, bud, its just setup. Trust me. Just give it a try and play with suspension values. I assure you will find a suitable setup for your taste. :smile: 

It's not mate. ;) As I said, I probably can't explain it well enough, but if you watch a few RL rally jumps and then try it in DR you can easily see that the car's motion is weird on jumps. You can even try it yourself in that other rally sim that everyone hates now, jumps feel much more natural and much closer to RL videos (or RL jumps if you have the opportunity to actually try it IRL). You can predict where you will land and how, and you can actually influence that by your driving just before the jump. Not in DR, or at least not in a way that feels remotely correct. Mind you, I'm not looking for 100% realism necessarily, but there are some parts of the game that feel so very good and then some other are in such a sharp contrast with this that it spoils the experience a bit.  

I don't know how suspension setup can change direction of the fly, can you explain? He isn't talking about landing, but  "Notice how I let off the gas jump before the car gets airborne but the nose still pitches up. The same thing happens even if I brake just before the jump"
Exactly. I'm also not concerned about the fact that the car rebounds after a landing, I'm concerned about how it rebounds. 

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I know what you mean about the jump problem, it's like there is no aerodynamics or rotation momentum. It feels great on rallycross though, so I'm sure they just need to update the physics for rally and all the cars. I was hoping this would be fixed on the new cars they mentioned in one of the road books.

I don't think it's a setup issue, and it shouldn't be, I don't think car setup should dramatically change momentum and pitch on going off a jump, but I've only ever jumped motorbikes so I'm no expert.

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The last jump at Höljes feels great, coming slightly sideways at an angle making landing quite tricky. I really think there will be a big improvement when the things learned from RX and PP will be implemented on the rally cars.

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I don't know how suspension setup can change direction of the fly, can you explain? He isn't talking about landing, but  "Notice how I let off the gas jump before the car gets airborne but the nose still pitches up. The same thing happens even if I brake just before the jump"
In 4th gear I doubt accel/decel makes as much difference as it would in 3rd. Proper gear selection is huge in this game, especially on gravel when trying to alter trajectory and momentum. I think it just plain might have been too fast also - he came into that much hotter than I ever do. That said I am sure that the physics are not perfect but the v2 physics on the car should be a lot closer to reality. I love the RX builds and can't wait for the rework of the rally cars.

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Kosmo17 said:
OzoreXS said:
Kosmo, bud, its just setup. Trust me. Just give it a try and play with suspension values. I assure you will find a suitable setup for your taste. :smile: 

It's not mate. ;) As I said, I probably can't explain it well enough, but if you watch a few RL rally jumps and then try it in DR you can easily see that the car's motion is weird on jumps. You can even try it yourself in that other rally sim that everyone hates now, jumps feel much more natural and much closer to RL videos (or RL jumps if you have the opportunity to actually try it IRL). You can predict where you will land and how, and you can actually influence that by your driving just before the jump. Not in DR, or at least not in a way that feels remotely correct. Mind you, I'm not looking for 100% realism necessarily, but there are some parts of the game that feel so very good and then some other are in such a sharp contrast with this that it spoils the experience a bit.  

I don't know how suspension setup can change direction of the fly, can you explain? He isn't talking about landing, but  "Notice how I let off the gas jump before the car gets airborne but the nose still pitches up. The same thing happens even if I brake just before the jump"
Exactly. I'm also not concerned about the fact that the car rebounds after a landing, I'm concerned about how it rebounds. 
Oh, I see. Now I get your point. I didnt saw that behavior until today. It happened on sweet lamb + Rs Cosworth.. there was no apparent reason but front went up like 60cm (not accelerating before/in the jump) and landed with the back of the car. I touched a bit of the roadside BTW, but still there was no reason to do that.

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Yeah that video was an exaggerated version of what normally happens. All jumps feel similar but toned down from that. Anyway, updating all the cars with the latest physics should bring big improvements all around. 

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