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This year's gravel looks horrible.


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It's not that you will look at the gravel all the time; it's less likely the case that you (want to) end up in the gravel.

Still, Codemaster decided to remove the clear, sharp and beautiful gravel in F1 2020, for whatever reasons.

Below are screenshots of Silvertone gravel at the approx. same location. The top one is in F1 2021, the bottom one is F1 2020. Graphics are in 4K set to the highest with DLSS on and without Screen Space Shadow. 

Gravel in F1 2021 is blurred to a severe degree, and the texture looks like from a decade ago. It may help boost the FPS in F1 2021 a tiny bit, but it's immersion breaking because it really doesn't look like real gravel when the car ends up there.

If something in F1 2020 wasn't broken, it doesn't really need changing in F1 2021, right?

 

Edit: to dear Moderators, it'd be nice if you can help moving this thread to 'Report an issue'. Thanks!

 

Report code: GAXM-MERV-HMKH-KDVG

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F1 2021

1532791214_F12021(DirectX12)13_07_202118_32_47.thumb.png.e2ae3c29cb030d9f9b65ad1a8b272095.png

301584439_F12021(DirectX12)13_07_202118_32_47(2).thumb.png.77ea7ed5c25c580b1cac643235ebf657.png

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F1 2020

1580393136_F12020(DirectX12)14_07_202116_36_24.thumb.png.9df26dbfabf8573a7fbde9735fea8bd9.png

671607045_F12020(DirectX12)14_07_202116_36_24(2).thumb.png.dd9725b1c3fbbedba2b7103421ec92f0.png

Edited by WildPhilosopher
Add detailed crop.
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There have been some changes as gravel, dirt, sand etc. is now brought onto the track to a larger degree and remains on track for longer (something I like personally), it may have needed a rejig to make that happen. 

I can barely tell the difference between your screencaps though tbh. 

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10 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

There have been some changes as gravel, dirt, sand etc. is now brought onto the track to a larger degree and remains on track for longer (something I like personally), it may have needed a rejig to make that happen. 

I can barely tell the difference between your screencaps though tbh. 

Not to mention higher track surface detail, more trackside objects and better grass. Like you, I can't really see a difference anyway. 

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11 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

There have been some changes as gravel, dirt, sand etc. is now brought onto the track to a larger degree and remains on track for longer (something I like personally), it may have needed a rejig to make that happen. 

I can barely tell the difference between your screencaps though tbh. 

First, you can click on the picture to enlarge it.

Second, you can go into the game and compare yourself.

Tha main difference is that gravel in F1 2020 look more 3D whereas in F1 2021 it looks flat and blurred (particularly in further distance).

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8 minutes ago, magpieracer48 said:

Not to mention higher track surface detail, more trackside objects and better grass. Like you, I can't really see a difference anyway. 

I've added cropped sections of the screenshots so probably you can see it better now.

Again, you can always check it yourself in games.

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I can notice marginal differences but this is just a first day release. I imagine there'll be plenty of graphical texturing updates throughout the year so it'll get fixed but I can't imagine it'll be a big drive to make this a priority as drivers would be actively avoiding going into it and hopefully zooming by at well over 100mph. 

Still, harmless pointing out as it may be an irritation for other people too and making them aware, in case they weren't, is always a good thing. 

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41 minutes ago, Guga_Cyr said:

You have my sympathies but while I nitpick about a LOT of small details - how the gravel looks definitely isn’t high up on my list…. 

Sure. I also mention in the original post: it's immersion braking, because when I ended up on it, I felt I'm travelling back to some 2000s 3D game...
And ofc I'll try never ending up on gravel.

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37 minutes ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

I can notice marginal differences but this is just a first day release. I imagine there'll be plenty of graphical texturing updates throughout the year so it'll get fixed but I can't imagine it'll be a big drive to make this a priority as drivers would be actively avoiding going into it and hopefully zooming by at well over 100mph. 

Still, harmless pointing out as it may be an irritation for other people too and making them aware, in case they weren't, is always a good thing. 

I guess the point I want to make is this: lots of things were great and not broken in F1 2020, including the gravel texture. It's not clear why this year Codemaster had made changes to things that were not broken and caused issues for players (at least for me, but I also paid for the game almost EVERY YEAR).

You can head over to the 'Report an issue' sub-forum and see other issues I reported. It all added to the frustration.

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1 minute ago, WildPhilosopher said:

I guess the point I want to make is this: lots of things were great and not broken in F1 2020, including the gravel texture. It's not clear why this year Codemaster had made changes to things that were not broken and caused issues for players (at least for me, but I also paid for the game almost EVERY YEAR).

You can head over to the 'Report an issue' sub-forum and see other issues I reported. It all added to the frustration.

You're quite right but probably bear in mind that not everything is separate. For example, you could leave the gravel exactly the way it was last year but change something elsewhere in the game (for example changing the behaviour of the tarmac) and it affects it somehow. Bugs don't always affect the thing you change and can permeate down the line. 

It'd be hard-pressed to assume that Codemasters intentionally saw last years gravel and thought "hey, that looks bit too realistic to me. Players are always saying we should use ideas from older games so I bet they'd love F1 2012 gravel in their 2021 game" as that's the assumption you would get if you're implying they willfully changed it to look worse than last year. 

I may wander over to the Issue page and have a look what else you've raised, or I may be able to see what topics you've created in your profile. Regardless, i'll have a look to see if there is more context to any unnecessary changes you think they've made and if there are a fair amount then this won't look like nitpicking and be more like Lt Columbo with his "and just one more thing". 

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I think there’s a lot of graphical and textures issues this year. The shadows on the car for example are so jagged it’s off putting, not to mention the flickering too. Also the Canadian flag at the exit of turn 2 looks shocking texture wise. Then there’s the shadows that pop in as you get closer. Never noticed this on last gen but on the Series X you just expect better. 

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28 minutes ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

You're quite right but probably bear in mind that not everything is separate. For example, you could leave the gravel exactly the way it was last year but change something elsewhere in the game (for example changing the behaviour of the tarmac) and it affects it somehow. Bugs don't always affect the thing you change and can permeate down the line. 

It'd be hard-pressed to assume that Codemasters intentionally saw last years gravel and thought "hey, that looks bit too realistic to me. Players are always saying we should use ideas from older games so I bet they'd love F1 2012 gravel in their 2021 game" as that's the assumption you would get if you're implying they willfully changed it to look worse than last year. 

I may wander over to the Issue page and have a look what else you've raised, or I may be able to see what topics you've created in your profile. Regardless, i'll have a look to see if there is more context to any unnecessary changes you think they've made and if there are a fair amount then this won't look like nitpicking and be more like Lt Columbo with his "and just one more thing". 

I wasn't nitpicking; this issue is raised because it's immersion breaking.

What's your last time in game looking at a marshal, the spectators, the national flags, the lamp posts, the tracktor, and the tres and grasses? You might argue that since few players would ever pay attention to these in-game elements when they're driving at over 100km/h, all these elements can be replaced with 2D or even 8-bit graphics, like racing games back in the 90s and early 2000s. And why bother putting famous YouTubers' twits into Braking Point because not everyone knows Jimmy Broadbent or aarava, and who cares, it's not the core of the game. Or why bother putting Matt Gallagher or Tiametmarduk's 3D scanned faces into the game when perhaps less than 50% of all players would know who they are or less than 50% of game time players would actually see them. Why bother inviting Will Buxton into the game when they can just use a generic 3D model and save some budget.

You're right that not everything is separated and so perhaps the change of gravel is due to the overall change of graphics, like the inroduction of raytraced shadow. But why even bother putting raytraced shadow into racing game when you don't have the attention to focus on the shadow, right?

Also, the gravel is not a real piles of 3D objects in game; it's just a 2D texture over a surface.  

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13 minutes ago, WildPhilosopher said:

I wasn't nitpicking; this issue is raised because it's immersion breaking.

 

I get that and I said I agree. Word for word, i said "I imagine there'll be plenty of graphical texturing updates throughout the year so it'll get fixed but I can't imagine it'll be a big drive to make this a priority as drivers would be actively avoiding going into it and hopefully zooming by at well over 100mph. Still, harmless pointing out as it may be an irritation for other people too and making them aware, in case they weren't, is always a good thing.".   I just pointed out that it won't be a priority and that it could look to others like nitpicking if it is the only problem you'd raised if you'd done a few.

18 minutes ago, WildPhilosopher said:

What's your last time in game looking at a marshal, the spectators, the national flags, the lamp posts, the tracktor, and the tres and grasses? You might argue that since few players would ever pay attention to these in-game elements when they're driving at over 100km/h, all these elements can be replaced with 2D or even 8-bit graphics, like racing games back in the 90s and early 2000s. And why bother putting famous YouTubers' twits into Braking Point because not everyone knows Jimmy Broadbent or aarava, and who cares, it's not the core of the game. Or why bother putting Matt Gallagher or Tiametmarduk's 3D scanned faces into the game when perhaps less than 50% of all players would know who they are or less than 50% of game time players would actually see them. Why bother inviting Will Buxton into the game when they can just use a generic 3D model and save some budget.

I have absolutely no idea what the point of this soliloquy is, nor what you're talking about... 

Still, in response to your question(s) 

What's your last time in game looking at a marshal, the spectators, the national flags, the lamp posts, the tracktor, and the tres and grasses? - Every race. I find the real world of F1 beautiful and I love the intro to the tracks where you can see the surroundings.  Singapore, I especially find beautiful with all the buildings around. In terms of marshals and track accompaniments, sometimes I find driving around in circles when no other driver is around kinda boring, i regularly look at the scenery and random faces in the crowd. Not my biggest concern though. 

You might argue that since few players would ever pay attention to these in-game elements when they're driving at over 100km/h, all these elements can be replaced with 2D or even 8-bit graphics, like racing games back in the 90s and early 2000s. - Why would anyone argue to go back to the days of 90's and early 00's when we're talking about 2020-21 graphic changes?   It sounds like you're creating arguments nobody has actually made in order to answer a question nobody asked...   The closest remark I can attribute to this was when I said that they wouldn't willfully go backwards in terms of graphics.

And why bother putting famous YouTubers' twits into Braking Point because not everyone knows Jimmy Broadbent or aarava, and who cares, it's not the core of the game. Or why bother putting Matt Gallagher or Tiametmarduk's 3D scanned faces into the game when perhaps less than 50% of all players would know who they are or less than 50% of game time players would actually see them. - This is the closest you've made to a relevant point in this part. I get that it is an Easter Egg for people who watch content creators.  I know who MattyG is but he has a channel that acts like news so perfectly understandable, I know who Ben Daly is and his content is watchable so no problem with him being in it, I know who Aarava is and although I find his content is usually awful, I have no problem with him being in the game.  People will like it as they can go "hey, I know that guy!" and that's harmless fun.    What I do now have a problem with is what is the point of mentioning all these people when you're (and I cannot highlight this enough) talking about gravel?  Is Jimmy Broadbent hiding in the gravel waiting to pop out and you can't see him because the gravel isn't as clear as last year? 

Why bother inviting Will Buxton into the game when they can just use a generic 3D model and save some budget. - Always been very vocal that I like Will in the game.  I've regularly said there needs to be more actual F1 presence to make it feel more authentic

31 minutes ago, WildPhilosopher said:

You're right that not everything is separated and so perhaps the change of gravel is due to the overall change of graphics, like the introduction of raytraced shadow. But why even bother putting raytraced shadow into racing game when you don't have the attention to focus on the shadow, right?

Also, the gravel is not a real piles of 3D objects in game; it's just a 2D texture over a surface.  

It makes no difference if it is 2D, 3D or almost 4D because you can almost smell it... If something affects the graphic, something affects the graphic.  Although I imagine they do tell the apprentice that they have to manually put every gravel stone in one-by-one, just to mess with them. 

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17 minutes ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

I have absolutely no idea what the point of this soliloquy is, nor what you're talking about... 

It is to make the point that raising issue about gravel appearance isn't nitpicking and it shouldn't be (too) low on the priority list.
Because if Codemaster has made so much effort to make the in game F1 world real and to include influencers and celebrities that are less critical for on-track experience in game (and twits only appear in Braking Point, I guess), surely gravel deserves a better place. Gravel appearance is more relevant to most of the game time than tweets.

You said:

Quote

but I can't imagine it'll be a big drive to make this a priority as drivers would be actively avoiding going into it and hopefully zooming by at well over 100mph. 

So by the same logic, lots of elements in game could stay what they were like in the 90s and early 2000s because players would be actively avoiding going into them and won't focus on them when well over 100mph. 

Quote

Although I imagine they do tell the apprentice that they have to manually put every gravel stone in one-by-one, just to mess with them. 

I also don't understand why you wrote this. In any case, thank you for your inputs. I can feel your passion for F1 and I wish you enjoy the game.

Edited by WildPhilosopher
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3 minutes ago, WildPhilosopher said:

It is to make the point that raising issue about gravel appearance isn't nitpicking and it shouldn't be (too) low on the priority list.
Because if Codemaster has made so much effort to make the in game F1 world real and to include influencers and celebrities that are less critical for on-track experience in game (and twits only appear in Braking Point, I guess), surely gravel deserves a better place. Gravel appearance is more relevant to most of the game time than tweets.

 

I agree it isn't nitpicking. I just implied it could look like it was.  The comment above mine refers to nitpicking in general and I was pointing out if you've raised other issues too then it doesn't look like you're just talking about gravel.   I don't think it should be low. I'm just saying that gamebreaking bugs and other complaints will probably supercede texture issues. 

4 minutes ago, WildPhilosopher said:

So by the same logic, lots of elements in game could stay what they were like in the 90s and early 2000s because players would be actively avoiding going into them and won't focus on them when well over 100mph. 

Like I said, it's priority. They will fix them when there's opportunity but something that a significant portion of people barely notice as they're whizzing around at top speed is below something that looks wrong when both stationary and moving. Aiden's mouth, for example in the Press Interview where he's all teeth. 

4 minutes ago, WildPhilosopher said:

 

I also don't understand why you wrote this. In any case, thank you for your inputs. I can feel your passion for F1 and I wish you enjoy the game.

It was a throwaway remark concerning practical jokes in the workplace. Akin to "tartan paint" and "a long weight".  Not worth focusing on,      Likewise, I hope the gravel issue is resolved along with the other ones you've raised and it's satisfactory for you to play. 

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Honestly, it just looks like the F1 2021 gravel is darker. The blurriness could be related to something in your in-game Graphics settings. Try playing around with some different settings.

Alternatively, it's possible that some textures now get down-sampled at slightly closer distances to compensate for other graphical improvements that were made to the game, in order to preserve performance (FPS).

If this is your immersion breaker...well... okay

Edited by CptBalloonhands
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2 hours ago, CptBalloonhands said:

Honestly, it just looks like the F1 2021 gravel is darker. The blurriness could be related to something in your in-game Graphics settings. Try playing around with some different settings.

Alternatively, it's possible that some textures now get down-sampled at slightly closer distances to compensate for other graphical improvements that were made to the game, in order to preserve performance (FPS).

If this is your immersion breaker...well... okay

As I said, all graphical settings had been maxed out except screen space shadow. But thank you for your suggestions and I'll try change settings.

As for why it's immersion breaking: well, I'm not proficient in F1 and can ended up in gravel a lot when learning a track. And it's just visually weird when it looks like the car is sliding onto some muddy patch. Not saying it's the only thing or often the case, but when it happens, it happens.

 

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The biggest difference between the two looks like the level of detail (LOD) is being varied more aggressively with distance in the new game. I'm not sure if there is a PC game setting that specifically relate to this but it's a pretty standard graphical technique to vary this to increase graphical capacity to use for something else instead. I'm therefore guessing this change has been made as a trade-off for an improvement elsewhere.

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I find it kinda amusing how the gravel looks is considered immersion breaking, but the same character models showing up in a different team uniform every time you see them isn’t 🤷🏽‍♂️

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/15/2021 at 3:22 AM, Ultra3142 said:

The biggest difference between the two looks like the level of detail (LOD) is being varied more aggressively with distance in the new game. I'm not sure if there is a PC game setting that specifically relate to this but it's a pretty standard graphical technique to vary this to increase graphical capacity to use for something else instead. I'm therefore guessing this change has been made as a trade-off for an improvement elsewhere.

Yes, quite possibly. Maybe they traded it with the new tyre effect when the car's on gravel. 

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On 7/15/2021 at 8:11 AM, Guga_Cyr said:

I find it kinda amusing how the gravel looks is considered immersion breaking, but the same character models showing up in a different team uniform every time you see them isn’t 🤷🏽‍♂️

I find your reply very amusing:

  1. I DIDN'T say anything regarding the character models in this thread, as it isn't an issue I wanted to talk about. The OP was about the downgraded gravels. I don't know how you could deduce from me saying nothing about character models to your reply here.
  2. You also miss a crucial point: the gravels look fine in F1 2020. And my question was: why Codemaster changed something to a worse version which wasn't broken in the last game?
  3. And you again missed my argument: gravels are in most parts of the play time, and with which players are more likely interact. That's why it's so much more important than the detail of the crowd or the characters in the pit lane. 
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2 hours ago, WildPhilosopher said:

I find your reply very amusing:

  1. You also miss a crucial point: the gravels look fine in F1 2020. And my question was: why Codemaster changed something to a worse version which wasn't broken in the last game?

From a performance/memory standpoint, textures are the most expensive resource. They take up the most space in memory. My guess is they did a downres of certain mip maps for some materials for performance reasons and the gravel was among those. Nobody went and made the gravel worse on purpose, it must have been done to mitigate an issue with performance or memory allocation.

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