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Team Meeting - Dnote's Notes

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I kind of feel like the community should hold an election to pick a handful (6?) of people to represent the community.

Perhaps CM have a publicly accessible workflow solution (like JIRA?) where these elected reps could submit bugs on behalf of the community.

Ideally the bugs should be sorted into groups (2014, 2015, multiplayer, audio/commentary, physics, UI, UX, etc)

A direct interface with Devs to avoid the constant bitch-moaning and descent into abuse.

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Dnote said:

...we can get a point where we’re able to fulfill your wishes as well as meet the requirements of the license, amongs other things (we definitely can’t do everything, but what we can do should align with what you want).

I'm curious about what are "the requirements of the license". Is safety car, for example, part of those requirements?

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@Dnote its good to hear that codemasters have recognised that communication needs to be a lot more then it has been,we can only hope that this doesn't turn out to be a false dawn.The multiplayer regular or league racer which I am a frustrated one may be the lesser slice of the pie as it were but I think it's absolutely necessary that lets say the top youtubers be given some sort of access to a beta build so that any major flaws with multiplayer be found as early as possible because to have a game 2 months on sale and the multiplayer is still unplayable is not really acceptable.But at least codies now seem to realise that us loyal fans of this sport and game may actually know what would make the game better.Im sure if you asked anyone who posts on this forum regularly to contribute that would do so in a heartbeat.#communicationcommunicationcommunication

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Would you be able to do Steam Early Access for the PC version, once it's approved? Seems to be working well for Dirt Rally.

If there's FOM issues, just use a fake unbranded car and maybe a test circuit of some kind. That would allow you to test multiplayer etc.

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Hello. 
I'm glad that you have decided to dedicate some of your time to keep us updated on the up and coming situations of the F1 title. Some of us don't fully understand how games are made or what it takes to get everything fully up and running, so it is much appreciated.  You will get people that are a little abrupt or angry about the situation, but I think as a professional organisation, rise above it and continue to  let us have more of a say in what we want as a game and I feel with the help of some of us, we can help each other to finally get the game on the right path to becoming great !

The things I think would make a great game even more greater are as follows.
- A more intelligent AI ( pit strategies, racing awareness, realism )
- More realistic situations ( car performance issues, stewards decisions, safety car, penalty's for track boundaries/engine changes etc )
- More in depth career mode ( upgrades, real time events, car performance changes, make your own driver. ) 
- Online cooperative mode.  AI being stable enough to have wheel to wheel racing, as I feel online has certain issues which cause a lot of trouble in that area. 
- More stability for online racing ( connection issues, sync, ) 
I would just like to add as well. I've noticed in all titles of F1 games, when the collisions are turned off, AI still drive as tho it's on. It's little things like this that would make those differences.  
- I love the the NEW chat engineer option that has been introduced into this years title, but I feel that more information would be better, like tire wear, fuel usage, best times to change tires, wet and dry situations, just in general more information.

In general, I could go on naming a lot of stuff, but  I think a game that revolves around more realistic situations would be a step in the right direction. I know that FIA laws etc don't allow certain things so that limits you to what you can do and I know that codemasters does it's up most and best to produce the best gaming experience, but if the game runs more smoothly and more solid as it should, less bugs etc, then the community wouldn't have much to say about it.  

I hope my input helps and I hope my F1 gaming  future never ends.

Yours gratefully.

Mr inspiretheworld. 

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Its a common thing these days for games to be released with bugs / glitches / issues etc, look at Microsoft's 343i effort for the Halo MCC release, now that was a big balls up.

For me, its not the above.

I'm new to the franchise, I've enjoyed the game in parts, for me what has let the setup down has been the communication.

That has lacked and we all hope this is the start of a new beginning.

IMHO we don't need devs' coming onto the forums and taking up hours of their time to answer the questions; do what others do and "employ" volunteers to monitor the forums, being the eyes and ears from the community then have a SPOC so one person can go to a particular person at CM and get the answers and in turn, feedback to us.

Hopefully that'll be yourself and we can all move on and enjoy the game!

Thanks for the update!


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Gav25182 said:
Britpoint said:
toshey said:
I'm worried for 2016. All this extra work is surly going to eat into 2016 working schedule.
Fixes that get created post release for '15 can be rolled into the new project, so it's not really wasted time :)

I think I've said before Britpoint, if we (CM and the community) as a team can get F1 2015 in to a healthy state regards bug fixes and playability, I feel a lot of fans would be happy with a 2016 game that is an evolution of 2015, rather than a whole new game. We are on the right track. You guys will have to fix these issues at some point, and where before you would fix to a point and then focus on the next game, now we should be looking at fixing F1 2015 completely, so that 16 requires little more than an season update. As I say, we are on the right track, this game has so much potential.


This communication is promising. You clearly have come to terms with where you have gone wrong in the past (and fair play to you for that), and I think you will find the community very responsive to this.


On a side note, I would love to help anyway I can :)

I don't think playable is enough, the game would still be barebones at its core. Added features and game modes would definitely be welcomed. Its good to see the developers/community managers wanting to fix the game but to what extent will they go? The game is far from par (from what I've read).

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@Dnote ; Thank you for this post. I've been waiting for some information about patches and why it is taking so long. Please keep communicating with us like this. I understand that you can't set a specific date for a patch release. But it is good to hear that you guys are still working on everything. 

I've gained a bit more faith now I know where you guys stand :). Keep this going please!

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I think a clean slate is probably needed in terms of a (and as much as it might hurt some egos (Not pun intended) a truthful Q&A from people like Lee Mather and Paul Jeal explaining why what happened happened.  Yes it might mean they may have to swallow their pride a bit and I don't want it to be come a witch hunt but I think whilst it's great @Britpoint has been interacting with the community I think that the community would be fascinated as to how decisions came to be made and how they felt when they realised that the game had it's flaws.  

At the moment I there is a lot of animosity between players and developers so I think there is a lot of skepticism around.  There will be no doubt be a post mortem internally as to how the game was launched in the state it was in not to mention the issues where the patches seem to cause additional issues.  But I think a "letter to the community" or a "Codemasters Charter" as to what is going on in the studio.  I know you can't give us screeenshots of cars due the the licensing issues, but perhaps have a week;y update from different departments such as the AI lead, Audio Lead, Weather effects Lead, and could be used as feed back for each of the teams following their post.

I agree that I think that community needs to have more involvement in the direction of the game.  I think Codies have been a bit "selfish" in terms of building a game Codemasters want rather than what the community wants.  I know not every request can be fulfilled due to resources but I think the lack of atmosphere/feeling of F1 has ebbed away whilst each year requests on how to bring back the magic of F1 to the games are posted time and time again.  Showing my age but i still dig out F1 97 for the PS1 not because of its graphics but because it oozes f1 out of every feature, with the flags/TV Decals/Commentary/Features even the ai and damage knowing that a small knock can break the front wing off.  It's a baffling thing that some of the basic features in games like F1 97 are done better than anything Codies have managed to do.

I should be getting nervous and tense as the red lights come on.  With Codemasters F1 games I don't get that.  F1 97 still gives me that buzz why?  Because it captures the essence of the sport I love. 

Codemasters F1 games seem to have stagnated because of the lack and even removal of features from a game representing a sport we here in the community are passionate about.  Combine that with AI I don't believe I can trust because I think they use a different rule set to the player which makes it feel you aren't playing to a level playing field.  Just seems that there needs to be some fresh eyes through the community.  However the lists for requests have been present every year yet there does not seem to be a move to implement these.

Now of course these caveats need a bit of a change of perspective from the top at Codemasters, Fences need to be mended between the devs and the community as we have had promises before and they failed to deliver.  We all want the best F1 game but I think it really needs both Community and devs to finally come together otherwise the resentment and accusations will continue to grow.  

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@Dnote Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear codemasters intends to put in the work to fix this title. Let's hope what you say comes to pass, however I think codemasters face a serious challenge to regain any credibility / confidence in the F1 series. I remember codemasters saying there would be no 2014 next-gen title so you could concentrate on getting the game right for the next gen, not just a graphics upgrade. F1 2015 is so bad it should have never been released! Quite honestly you should have waited another year, let alone bring release forward from the previous titles traditional date. I bought the game on release and the only reason I still have it is because it's the digital version. Suffice to say I won't be buying the next title at release, if 2015 gets fixed I may consider purchasing the 2016 game but only second hand bargin basement copy after all patches have been released. Maybe the 2017 or 18 game will be worth release day investment if you still have the license... Sorry for being cynical but you have a lot of work to do to regain my financial support after being conned with state of the 2015 release.

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Can we quit the "thanks for this, but don't forget, F1 2015 was so bad blah blah" - go outside, talk to your kids (or parents), read a book or learn something new.

Sake.

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Nice to hear something finally after beiing in the dark for so long. Cheers Dnote! If you ever need someone to come in and test the upcoming game I'd be more than willing to travel over (I'm from Australia) that's how dedicated I am! Anyways, hopefully all the existing issues are fixed and we could see things like the Safety Car come back.

Cheers,
Ben.

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I should be getting nervous and tense as the red lights come on.  With Codemasters F1 games I don't get that.  F1 97 still gives me that buzz why?  Because it captures the essence of the sport I love. 

Building on this - i'd like to see the starts be more problematic - like having to match the revs to a certain point in the rev range (which changes race to race so not always the same) + holding down a button at the same time to launch at the right time - something to "solve" to make the starts a bit more true to life.

I think that would be cool/fun/challenging.

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Can we quit the "thanks for this, but don't forget, F1 2015 was so bad blah blah" - go outside, talk to your kids (or parents), read a book or learn something new.

Sake.
That is my opinion and I reserve the right to express it on a forum that is for said expression, may I add a forum is not for personal attacks! I have been outside on many occasions since the release of the game, many times and on a daily basis. As an avid reader I have read about 8 books (mainly philosophy and quantum physics) and learnt plenty of new things. And yes, I've also talked to both my parents and kids.

Perhaps, in this time since release, I'd have liked to play and enjoy a video game I paid good money for in good faith.

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Can we quit the "thanks for this, but don't forget, F1 2015 was so bad blah blah" - go outside, talk to your kids (or parents), read a book or learn something new.

Sake.
That is my opinion and I reserve the right to express it on a forum that is for said expression, may I add a forum is not for personal attacks! I have been outside on many occasions since the release of the game, many times and on a daily basis. As an avid reader I have read about 8 books (mainly philosophy and quantum physics) and learnt plenty of new things. And yes, I've also talked to both my parents and kids.

Perhaps, in this time since release, I'd have liked to play and enjoy a video game I paid good money for in good faith.
OK dude, sorry - I didn't intend to come across so flippant and wasn't directed at you specifically (I would have quoted you otherwise) - more of a general observation of many of the posts made here.

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Can we quit the "thanks for this, but don't forget, F1 2015 was so bad blah blah" - go outside, talk to your kids (or parents), read a book or learn something new.

Sake.
That is my opinion and I reserve the right to express it on a forum that is for said expression, may I add a forum is not for personal attacks! I have been outside on many occasions since the release of the game, many times and on a daily basis. As an avid reader I have read about 8 books (mainly philosophy and quantum physics) and learnt plenty of new things. And yes, I've also talked to both my parents and kids.

Perhaps, in this time since release, I'd have liked to play and enjoy a video game I paid good money for in good faith.
OK dude, sorry - I didn't intend to come across so flippant and wasn't directed at you specifically (I would have quoted you otherwise) - more of a general observation of many of the posts made here.
No worries.

There are many comments here that are not in least bit constructive, on that I'm sure everyone agrees, however people need to vent frustration. Codemasters are making the right noises, but it's too early to tell if the game will be fixed. Project Cars and The Witcher 3 are making good progress so there is hope that the industry as a whole can turn around what has been a very bad start to next generation console games. I think codemasters need to fix the bugs in the game before adding content, perhaps then we can look forward to a 2016 game that is closer to the communities expectations.

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ChasteWand said:I think codemasters need to fix the bugs in the game before adding content, perhaps then we can look forward to a 2016 game that is closer to the communities expectations.
This. Fix problems first, then look into feasibility of adding SC, Red Flags etc.


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I think a clean slate is probably needed in terms of a (and as much as it might hurt some egos (Not pun intended) a truthful Q&A from people like Lee Mather and Paul Jeal explaining why what happened happened.  Yes it might mean they may have to swallow their pride a bit and I don't want it to be come a witch hunt but I think whilst it's great @Britpoint has been interacting with the community I think that the community would be fascinated as to how decisions came to be made and how they felt when they realised that the game had it's flaws.  

At the moment I there is a lot of animosity between players and developers so I think there is a lot of skepticism around.  There will be no doubt be a post mortem internally as to how the game was launched in the state it was in not to mention the issues where the patches seem to cause additional issues.  But I think a "letter to the community" or a "Codemasters Charter" as to what is going on in the studio.  I know you can't give us screeenshots of cars due the the licensing issues, but perhaps have a week;y update from different departments such as the AI lead, Audio Lead, Weather effects Lead, and could be used as feed back for each of the teams following their post.

I agree that I think that community needs to have more involvement in the direction of the game.  I think Codies have been a bit "selfish" in terms of building a game Codemasters want rather than what the community wants.  I know not every request can be fulfilled due to resources but I think the lack of atmosphere/feeling of F1 has ebbed away whilst each year requests on how to bring back the magic of F1 to the games are posted time and time again.  Showing my age but i still dig out F1 97 for the PS1 not because of its graphics but because it oozes f1 out of every feature, with the flags/TV Decals/Commentary/Features even the ai and damage knowing that a small knock can break the front wing off.  It's a baffling thing that some of the basic features in games like F1 97 are done better than anything Codies have managed to do.

I should be getting nervous and tense as the red lights come on.  With Codemasters F1 games I don't get that.  F1 97 still gives me that buzz why?  Because it captures the essence of the sport I love. 

Codemasters F1 games seem to have stagnated because of the lack and even removal of features from a game representing a sport we here in the community are passionate about.  Combine that with AI I don't believe I can trust because I think they use a different rule set to the player which makes it feel you aren't playing to a level playing field.  Just seems that there needs to be some fresh eyes through the community.  However the lists for requests have been present every year yet there does not seem to be a move to implement these.

Now of course these caveats need a bit of a change of perspective from the top at Codemasters, Fences need to be mended between the devs and the community as we have had promises before and they failed to deliver.  We all want the best F1 game but I think it really needs both Community and devs to finally come together otherwise the resentment and accusations will continue to grow.  
Good post.

FWIW I'll give you my take on what I think happened.

CM have been running the old engine for years. The new hardware meant that a new engine needed to be written. The amount of effort that needs to be put into this is massive and the difficulty shouldn't be underestimated. My guess is a significant amount of the resource has been used up just trying to get the basics working, let alone the higher level functionality. That's why the game is in the current state.

Now the fundamentals have been completed the next game should be better as they have more resource to test stuff like online functionality. However, whether the customer base is willing to tolerate being continually sold the games in the current state is a huge gamble.They could get themselves in a state where they don't have enough sales to justify getting the game to a mature state where people do actually start to really like it and it sells, or even if they do so no-one will buy because they have been burnt on previous occasions. So if they are under resourcing at this stage it could prevent them getting to the point where they can really earn the cash from the huge investment they have put in writing the new engine.

All this sort of stuff is pretty symptomatic of modern day sbusiness, where accounts refuse to take a long term view and demand ROI within say a 2-3 year timescale. In videogames my guess is that it is on 5 years where you really start to capitalise on all that initial investment in the engine.

To me all businesses need to get to a stage really where they need to make a decision, either they are in it for the long haul and invest the money necessary to produce things people want or get out. Staggering along hoping that you can make the cut is just a slow drawn out death. Best to either play to win or not play at all. 

I love CM games. I think they are great (or at least the previous ones I have played are) and want them to continue. I have some issues though with the way they seem to want to interact with the community, which Dirt Rally seemed to begin to address. Pcars has leveraged the community in an amazing way. If CM can't do this then they are losing out and losing competitiveness. I'd also want to make the point though that although I am prepared to wait for a great game to appear. I respect that other people who have paid their money don't give a damn about CM and whatever issues may or may not go on in their business. They just want a great game and have a right to demand that as customers.

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ChasteWand said:I think codemasters need to fix the bugs in the game before adding content, perhaps then we can look forward to a 2016 game that is closer to the communities expectations.
This. Fix problems first, then look into feasibility of adding SC, Red Flags etc.


I don't know how thing's work within codemasters but more coders and programmers within working on the game engine with some QA testing (Possibly letting gamers trying out the game before it's out) while in development might mean more features can be added with less possibly of bug's in the future.

Didn't this happen when GOBO games helped you guy's with development with F12012?

   

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@Chromatic true. but really all resources should be dedicated to resolving the bugs (at least in the short-medium term).


I agree I know asking for a feature before bug fixes comes across as dense on my part.

But it can't kill you to ask I suppose. 

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