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Portimao, Imola & Jeddah: Out Now ✅


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On 7/31/2021 at 6:16 PM, KNT2011 said:

Please, enlighten us lad, how long it takes to design and create a whole circuit from scratch. I'm sure we'd all like to know. 

Do be sure to note your experience in the field as well so we're all informed. 

What to enlight? 😁 Do you think they guessed Imola, Portimao and Jeddah 3 years ago

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3 hours ago, Nightfire1964 said:

Ahh yes because everyone planned how to deal with the pandemic and knew that the calender would be significantly different from what we are used to be normal. 28th April Canada got cancelled and Turkey was announced to replace this race then less a month later the Turkish gp was cancelled on the 17th of May and then it came back to the calender on the 25th June. How are expected to create something that keeps changing so often

They already started on the track when it was announced a second time based on the previous posts on here. The pandemic cannot be used as an excuse to strengthen your point as to why some tracks are there and other's are not. As somebody as said at the signing off stage turkey was not included as part of it. I was hoping it might be different as the OFFICIAL f1 game. It isn't. So I'II leave it at that.

Edited by Chromatic
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I swear the way some chime in here it makes it seem like Codemasters has a permanent seat on all FOM and FIA deliberations. Like our chap here @BarryBL is right there cracking jokes with Domenicalli and Jean Todt between slides from George Russell's powerpoint presentation about how they should consider adding a second Silverstone GP sometime after the summer break.

As if being an official F1 licensee would put Lee Mather's email on FIA's inside memos. 

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This is how it probably went:

1. Codemasters receives 2021 calendar including Imola and Jeddah but not yet Portimao
2. Codemasters assign resources to start working on Imola and Jeddah
3. Portimao added to race calendar to fill the spot of the postponed/cancelled Chinese GP
4. Codemasters assign additional resources to work on Portimao and lock these resources in place for the rest of the year
5. The race calendar is now locked.
6. Canada gets cancelled & Turkey gets added
7. Codemasters shrugs as this years' calendar is already locked in
8. Turkey gets cancelled
9. Codemasters stretch and yawn as it doesn't affect their production schedule
10. Turkey gets re-added
11. Codemasters too busy to care as they are working on the 3 other tracks already

Guys, I've said it before, but you can't just create tracks on a whim whenever FIA decides to replace a race. That's just not how it works no matter how much we all want additional tracks. This applies even more during Covid working conditions. And yes @Chromatic the pandemic can absolutely be used as an excuse in this case, since it made the whole calendar unpredictable and it made it practically impossible to go to a track for laser scanning + all the time it took the studio to switch over to full remote... I can tell you from experience it took my studio a solid 2-3 months to get close to matching productivity of the "before times".

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@CptBalloonhands is spot on as far as my armchair expertise can attest to.

Now to add drizzle to the tempest, say they've finally wrapped the circuits' physical assets. The track, the off track elements, the buildings and scenarios - everything. Now what? 

What makes the game modes interplay with the track? How are the track limits defined and imposed? What makes the AI know where to go? What sets the AI brake points and entries and exits? The AI maximum and minimum corner speed? How is the racing line created? What sets the goals and benchmarks for the practice programs and so on?

Codemasters have said it already but it's handy to reiterate. The "physical" assets are very time and resource consuming, but what really consumes time and resources is setting the parameters for the AI.

 

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4 hours ago, CptBalloonhands said:

you can't just create tracks on a whim whenever FIA decides to replace a race.

No you cant, and that is why it would be wise to have a pool of tracks to choose from. There are not too many FIA approved F1 tracks out there, and after 2 seasons with volatile FIA race calendars its about time devs start to change something in their approach.

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@Schneehase I'm afraid that proposition should be sent to the legalteam@codemasters.com, not the heyimadev@codemasters.com. From what we could glimpse from the fine print underlaying message from Codie's posts here, their deal is to represent the official F1 calendar as much as possible and pos$$ible given the constraints of the market (yearly franchise) and budget (yearly franchise, again), with compromises being agreed upon between everyone involved when a 1:1 depiction cannot be made. 

Unrelated but kinda related, Forza 7 will soon be delisted from all stores. Why? Licenses.

I would positively love to drive these cars on the Nordschleife, the true Green Hell. Or on a number of other FIA Grade 1 tracks such as Magny-Cours and Jerez, or our old not-so-old pal Hockenheim. Not gonna happen, even though Codies' staff probably would love that too.

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14 minutes ago, marioho said:

their deal is to represent the official F1 calendar as much as possible

Then - how in the world can we have this completely customizeable grand prix mode in 2021 then, allowing back to back races on the same track, a wide variety of number of races, a completely free order of races, tracks including China, Australia and so on?

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Compromises – that goes both ways, mate. FOM has to concede so we can have a game satisfying the standard of the industry.

You cannot botch the Series A or the Premier League by slotting in Flamengo and Boca Juniors in there, can you? Why, if the rosters are there and the championship structure is already there and all the files are already in there and so on and on?

Edit: To summarize, I don't have access to their licensing contract. I don't think anyone here has too, maybe not even many of Codies' staff that interact with us every day. So how can we assert that the devs must do this or that if we cannot even say with certainty they can?

Edited by marioho
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54 minutes ago, marioho said:

Compromises – that goes both ways, mate. FOM has to concede so we can have a game satisfying the standard of the industry.

You cannot botch the Series A or the Premier League by slotting in Flamengo and Boca Juniors in there, can you? Why, if the rosters are there and the championship structure is already there and all the files are already in there and so on and on?

Edit: To summarize, I don't have access to their licensing contract. I don't think anyone here has too, maybe not even many of Codies' staff that interact with us every day. So how can we assert that the devs must do this or that if we cannot even say with certainty they can?

I remember when f1 games of the 2001 season came and it was chaos with every jean alesi was on a different team as other drivers were present or not.

58 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

Then - how in the world can we have this completely customizeable grand prix mode in 2021 then, allowing back to back races on the same track, a wide variety of number of races, a completely free order of races, tracks including China, Australia and so on?

While it is a championship, with all these customizations, it is never called FIA 2021 Formula One World Championship, this right here is the difference. Pick the option of playing the 2021 F1 World Championship and place back to back races and still be called that. They arent raced oh their estimates date. Its just a track order pick.

While Austria-Áustria is back to back, it isnt Styrian GP and then Austrian GP. Its two austrian GPs.

Might even be something poorly worded or something that never went in consideration in the licence contract and bang, something its not possible to do, or it is awkwardly allowed.

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2 minutes ago, Hichel18 said:

While it is a championship, with all these customizations, it is never called FIA 2021 Formula One World Championship, this right here is the difference. Pick the option of playing the 2021 F1 World Championship and place back to back races and still be called that. They arent raced oh their estimates date. Its just a track order pick.

While Austria-Áustria is back to back, it isnt Styrian GP and then Austrian GP. Its two austrian GPs.

Might even be something poorly worded or something that never went in consideration in the licence contract and bang, something its not possible to do, or it is awkwardly allowed.

I there was a reaction of tears of joy here in the forum I would use that this comment, mate 💖

I'm a lawyer and this resonates fully and thoroughly with my experience.

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22 hours ago, Hichel18 said:

I remember when f1 games of the 2001 season came and it was chaos with every jean alesi was on a different team as other drivers were present or not.

While it is a championship, with all these customizations, it is never called FIA 2021 Formula One World Championship, this right here is the difference. Pick the option of playing the 2021 F1 World Championship and place back to back races and still be called that. They arent raced oh their estimates date. Its just a track order pick.

While Austria-Áustria is back to back, it isnt Styrian GP and then Austrian GP. Its two austrian GPs.

Might even be something poorly worded or something that never went in consideration in the licence contract and bang, something its not possible to do, or it is awkwardly allowed.

Might even be the reason why there's no Championship mode yet, because some tracks on the original calendar are not even completed yet, so officially it still isn't "The 2021 Championship".

About why we could still run the "Championship" in MyTeam/Career/Real Season Start, it probably has something to do with player involvements. "We" are not part of the official driver list so the conditions might be considered as different which allows a bit more freedom on how the game could use it. 

This might also be why Real Season Start forced us to use our own driver instead of real ones, it might just be a temporary solution without delaying the feature. When all the tracks are ready I assume they'll update it so we can use real drivers. 

That's my guess. 

Edited by DRTApophis
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2 hours ago, DRTApophis said:

Might even be the reason why there's no Championship mode yet, because some tracks on the original calendar are not even completed yet, so officially it still isn't "The 2021 Championship".

I'm not really sure this is true, given that via GP mode we have the option of, '2021 FIA FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP' and with a little 'TM' at the end too.

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What I can´t understand is, why have a smaller studio like milestone laser scanned tracks in the game and more tracks as CM for a offical game. I drove yesterday on interlagos brazil and monza. Wow what an experience. Ok the game is hard but brazil feels so much better.
This is a really good game with very good high detailed tracks. It is a motor cycle game and a different experience.
The speed is enourmos. I really like the Unreal Engine 4 for racing games.

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3 minutes ago, Pow3rCharles said:

Is it true that codemasters has been making Imola for some time?

Nah, they started making it on Tuesday 😏

I think Imola is the one they had most chance with. Portimao came later to the calendar, I think. Jeddah hadn't even been built (and I still don't think it's finished).  Therefore it's probably the one they started work on first.

It could have been done quickly enough and it's the other two that are holding the process up. Unfortunately we have no idea what is happening regarding the new tracks at this point, just that they're coming later. 

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19 minutes ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

Nah, they started making it on Tuesday 😏

I think Imola is the one they had most chance with. Portimao came later to the calendar, I think. Jeddah hadn't even been built (and I still don't think it's finished).  Therefore it's probably the one they started work on first.

It could have been done quickly enough and it's the other two that are holding the process up. Unfortunately we have no idea what is happening regarding the new tracks at this point, just that they're coming later. 

I thought they started making them next week because so many people keep asking for them lol

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54 minutes ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

Nah, hanno iniziato a farlo martedì  😏

Penso che Imola sia quella con cui hanno avuto più possibilità. Portimao è arrivata più tardi al calendario, credo. Jeddah non era nemmeno stata costruita (e continuo a non pensare che sia finita). Quindi probabilmente è quello su cui hanno iniziato a lavorare per primo.

Avrebbe potuto essere fatto abbastanza velocemente e sono gli altri due che stanno bloccando il processo. Sfortunatamente non abbiamo idea di cosa stia succedendo riguardo alle nuove tracce a questo punto, solo che arriveranno più tardi. 

How do You Know it? Anyways, i don't have so much rush on having new tracks because for me the f1 2021 game is even good without the New 3 track. But if they add them i'm even happier

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10 hours ago, MadEvilBeavis76 said:

What I can´t understand is, why have a smaller studio like milestone laser scanned tracks in the game and more tracks as CM for a offical game. I drove yesterday on interlagos brazil and monza. Wow what an experience. Ok the game is hard but brazil feels so much better.
This is a really good game with very good high detailed tracks. It is a motor cycle game and a different experience.
The speed is enourmos. I really like the Unreal Engine 4 for racing games.

 

At this point I think CM should just release an in-depth behind the scenes video of how they build the tracks. No, not like that Zandvoort one. More in-depth. Show me what software you use to build the track layout, show me how you build the terrain around it, the full workflow etc. There are so many variables that could cause the production to take longer in one studio vs another. Do they have a specialized tool to quickly shape the track layout or do they handcraft everything in 3D Max? I have worked on some big urban open world games and to build the roads in the city we had a pretty neat in-house tool to quickly generate roads and it would adapt to terrain you painted around it etc. Huge timesaver. Do they have something similar? I would be shocked if they didn’t considering all they do is racing games, but who knows? 

Keep in mind also, and this has been said before I think, that a huge part of the production time on a track is spent building the area SURROUNDING the track. The stuff you see in the distance during the intro fly-bys. Not all other racing games have this level of detail and you only ever get to see the track from your car or at most the TV camera angles set up around the track. CM went the extra mile here. Personally I would gladly sacrifice those details if it meant having more tracks faster but that’s just me. 

And also, being the official F1 game, many stakeholders have a say in the final product and can request changes to be made. A lot of time is probably spent submitting stuff to various of these stakeholders and waiting for approval/working on changes they requested etc. It’s not an unofficial game where the team can just build whatever and release it quickly. 
 

I’d really like to see a true dev diary style video of their track building team. Now would be an ideal time to make a video like this too. Really get into detail of what it takes to create the new Portimao track from start to finish for example. Why do things take so much time etc? I think explaining it in such a format would address some of the impatience many of us have while waiting for these tracks to be finished and help everyone understand why things are the way they are.

 

Edited by CptBalloonhands
untagged Barry :P
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10 minutes ago, CptBalloonhands said:

 

At this point I think CM should just release an in-depth behind the scenes video of how they build the tracks. No, not like that Zandvoort one. More in-depth. Show me what software you use to build the track layout, show me how you build the terrain around it, the full workflow etc. There are so many variables that could cause the production to take longer in one studio vs another. Do they have a specialized tool to quickly shape the track layout or do they handcraft everything in 3D Max? I have worked on some big urban open world games and to build the roads in the city we had a pretty neat in-house tool to quickly generate roads and it would adapt to terrain you painted around it etc. Huge timesaver. Do they have something similar? I would be shocked if they didn’t considering all they do is racing games, but who knows? 

Keep in mind also, and this has been said before I think, that a huge part of the production time on a track is spent building the area SURROUNDING the track. The stuff you see in the distance during the intro fly-bys. Not all other racing games have this level of detail and you only ever get to see the track from your car or at most the TV camera angles set up around the track. CM went the extra mile here. Personally I would gladly sacrifice those details if it meant having more tracks faster but that’s just me. 

And also, being the official F1 game, many stakeholders have a say in the final product and can request changes to be made. A lot of time is probably spent submitting stuff to various of these stakeholders and waiting for approval/working on changes they requested etc. It’s not an unofficial game where the team can just build whatever and release it quickly. 
 

I’d really like to see a true dev diary style video of their track building team. Now would be an ideal time to make a video like this too. Really get into detail of what it takes to create the new Portimao track from start to finish for example. Why do things take so much time etc? I think explaining it in such a format would address some of the impatience many of us have while waiting for these tracks to be finished and help everyone understand why things are the way they are.

Cough cough, @BarryBL can you make this happen? 😉

 

It might be interesting to see this from both the sides of implementing a well-known track like Imola in comparison to, say, Miami, next year. One they're basically doing from scratch.

That being said, they probably don't want to give too many trade secrets away so it'll not be an all-things-bare showcase behind the scenes and they'll still hold something back. Still would be an awesome thing to watch. 

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13 minutes ago, CptBalloonhands said:

I’d really like to see a true dev diary style video of their track building team. Now would be an ideal time to make a video like this too. Really get into detail of what it takes to create the new Portimao track from start to finish for example. Why do things take so much time etc? I think explaining it in such a format would address some of the impatience many of us have while waiting for these tracks to be finished and help everyone understand why things are the way they are.

 

I'd enjoy this, but is there such impatience outside of dedicated spaces like this forum?

I see the odd comment on a Youtube vid, but it's nowhere near like it is here. Indeed, going off Youtube comments Braking Point was very well received., for example. How much does a dedicated forum really matter to CM's public image. 

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4 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

I'd enjoy this, but is there such impatience outside of dedicated spaces like this forum?

I see the odd comment on a Youtube vid, but it's nowhere near like it is here. Indeed, going off Youtube comments Braking Point was very well received., for example. How much does a dedicated forum really matter to CM's public image. 

This is a pretty salient point.  Youtube videos are generally very positive about the game (although you can see that half the people there are angling for a creator content job so they can get free stuff so they're bound to be sycophantic) but they don't vocalise the same issues, and requirements, as on here. 

However, dedicated groups on Reddit, Twitter and Facebook all have vastly different opinions to here.  There's an aura that people on here know more of what they're talking about... usually... but, in terms of the audience of the game, it's quite a small percentage. Alot of people are just casual players or see it as something harmless to distract the kids more than them being passionate sim racers. 

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11 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

I'd enjoy this, but is there such impatience outside of dedicated spaces like this forum?

I see the odd comment on a Youtube vid, but it's nowhere near like it is here. Indeed, going off Youtube comments Braking Point was very well received., for example. How much does a dedicated forum really matter to CM's public image. 

i follow another game which has been waiting for some time for a game and it's a whole load of impatient people wanting things moaning about things etc so it's not just this following which is like it 

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  • PJTierney changed the title to Portimao, Imola & Jeddah: Out Now ✅
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