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AI ridiculously fast in high speed corners


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How much of it is affected by your My Team car's aero performance relative to the rest of the field?

I've often wondered how much of an impact your car's aerodynamic performance has on your ability to take mid-to-high speed corners vs the AI and how much your mechanical grip performance has on low-to-mid speed corners.

I assume that if you're poor on aero vs the other teams, you'll naturally find yourself losing time to them through sequences like Maggots-Becketts-Chapel and Pouhon, etc. But I don't know how much that really is the case and if it is, how well that's communicated to players so they understand why they're slower than the AI at certain circuits.

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1 hour ago, SCStunner said:

Hi everyone,

So, i had this suspicion while racing Silverstone in MyTeam, where the AI has insane grip through the second sector (especially Copse). You can check Tom97's video in regards:

 

I got to Spa in my career, and the same happens through Pouhon (I've read about Zandvoort too, but yet to race it). The AI just has so much grip, it can go easily flat without understeer or lateral sliding that the player has to deal instead. I recorded a quick video to compare myself to the AI in that corner:

Granted, it's a MyTeam car vs a Red Bull, but a 40 kph difference in that corner is not realistic at all, also given I was trying out quite high wings (7-9).

 

Hopefully we can being this issue to the developer's attention, as it is more frustrating than the AI just being faster overall (we can't turn down the difficulty for just one corner).

Interesting would be to know if you could drive this corner with the Red Bull almost like the AI. Then we know, it is not the AI, it is the car performance. 

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55 minutes ago, PaddySk said:

I was already thinking that my setup or my driving is **** this year. Good to know that it seems to be an issue with the Myteams car or the AI in general. 

Can you keep up with your team mate Paddy? That's the best way to find out if the AI are overpowered... My team mate is Marcus Armstrong and its been 50/50 so far. He destroys me at the Netherlands/Japan/Hungary/Spain/Monaco... oddly I did beat him quite easily at Silverstone. I might have to turn the difficulty down a couple of points for the tracks where racing the AI is too hard to keep up. So far my Aero and Chassis is the worst in the field. 

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6 hours ago, SCStunner said:

Hi everyone,

So, i had this suspicion while racing Silverstone in MyTeam, where the AI has insane grip through the second sector (especially Copse).

Well, now we know what "simulator" Merc is using. 😄

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So from my (very) rough calculations, the AI is definitely over powered on Netherlands and Austria, and underpowered at Bahrain and France. I haven't checked all the tracks yet, but on 80 difficulty, AI pole times at Bahrain and France were ~4.7 seconds off the Time Trial world record. Whereas at Austria and Netherlands they were only ~2.7 seconds off the Time Trial records. So if you use Bahrain for setting your difficulty you might be in for some seriously tough races at tracks later on.

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6 hours ago, SCStunner said:

Hi everyone,

So, i had this suspicion while racing Silverstone in MyTeam, where the AI has insane grip through the second sector (especially Copse). You can check Tom97's video in regards:

 

I got to Spa in my career, and the same happens through Pouhon (I've read about Zandvoort too, but yet to race it). The AI just has so much grip, it can go easily flat without understeer or lateral sliding that the player has to deal instead. I recorded a quick video to compare myself to the AI in that corner:

Granted, it's a MyTeam car vs a Red Bull, but a 40 kph difference in that corner is not realistic at all, also given I was trying out quite high wings (7-9).

 

Hopefully we can being this issue to the developer's attention, as it is more frustrating than the AI just being faster overall (we can't turn down the difficulty for just one corner).

Yes mate you are correct and dont even try zandvoort ive tried it multiple times in gp mode with a red bull and a alpha tauri its just insanse this also have this problem its just unrealistic that the ai can go so fast

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When I brought it up (Silverstone Copse, Austria S3, Spa Pouhon, and Zandvoort T7) I was told “get good” or practice more. I’m glad people are experiencing it for themselves. For me it felt really off in Austria and Silverstone because it’s a two to four corners that you lose so much time at and I compensated by turning the AI down, it just felt strange being so much quicker than the AI on the rest of the track. I should also add that my experience was in a regular career in a Mercedes. 

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same here just done, austria and silverstone, i think ive matched my AI fairly well but its hard to tell when my sectors generally are in the right ball park, apart for the afore mentioned ones: last 2 turns i n Austria, Sector 2 at silverstone. 

not looking forward to belgium (which is my fav track) and zandwort by the sounds of the complaints....

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15 hours ago, NinjaElmo said:

So from my (very) rough calculations, the AI is definitely over powered on Netherlands and Austria, and underpowered at Bahrain and France. I haven't checked all the tracks yet, but on 80 difficulty, AI pole times at Bahrain and France were ~4.7 seconds off the Time Trial world record. Whereas at Austria and Netherlands they were only ~2.7 seconds off the Time Trial records. So if you use Bahrain for setting your difficulty you might be in for some seriously tough races at tracks later on.

You have to be careful about using laptimes to compare performance when Austria and Zandvoort are much shorter laptimes than Paul Ricard and Bahrain.

Using a percentage comparison would be more accurate.

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Regarding Spa, I also have to add Eau Rouge/Radillion to the list of unbalanced corners: on the dry it's not an issue as it is easily flat for the player too. However the AI gains a massive advantage on the wet, as they can tap the brake for a thousandth of a second and proceed with no loss of grip of understeer, while the player has to lift massively (this holds true while comparing yourself to your teammate, as I saw questions about it being down to the MyTeam car. Your teammate has the same "on rails" behavior as the other AIs).

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23 minutes ago, Kevin1723 said:

@BarryBL

maybe you guys have to take a look on this problem i have seen many reports regarding this problem i would also like to do a bug report if you need to have that information

Noted. Please can players add bug reports onto this using the usual template, and I'll get this sent to developers. Many thanks.

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22 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

Noted. Please can players add bug reports onto this using the usual template, and I'll get this sent to developers. Many thanks.

  • A detailed description of the issue: on some tracks the ai are very OP mainly in high speed corners
  • Report Code: NA
  • Platform?: ps4
  • Game-mode?: gp mode braking point and career mode
  • [ONLINE] The amount of players in your session? If you know the players forum username, please tag as many people who were in your session here.:NA
  • [ONLINE] Were you the host?:NA
  • [PC ONLY] Please post your DXDiag, including the make and model of motherboard.
  • What troubleshooting have you tried? Please list everything you tried.: i tried racing in an red bull on zandvoort (also noticed this on hungary as i drove in an aston martin) i drove on 78 difficulty which in f1 2020 got me the win and in f1 2021 even on 58 difficulty cant win in a red bull on zandvoort while red bull is one of the best cars on the grid.
  • Any screenshots or video of the issue? Remember to add as unlisted if video via a third party: see picture attached to this report (made by@AlexisMalcolm
  • How do you make the problem happen? Please add a step-by-step guide here so we can replicate and get reported as quick as possible.: just race on zandvoort or silverstone and some more tracks and you can see that the ai gain massifely on the player in the race and in austria their times are almost 2 seconds faster than the pole position time in real life
  • Edit: its on 100 ai so far as i know
  • @BarryBL

10-02-21-1673128283_F12021Autriche.thumb.jpg.9cc370dc2603dd225c89f117aac5bb00.jpg

Edited by Kevin1723
correction
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On 7/20/2021 at 1:05 PM, Blent said:

How much of it is affected by your My Team car's aero performance relative to the rest of the field?

Not much if at all. I tried a single GP in Spa as Hamilton and through Pouhon Bottas consistently pulled 3 tenths on me. I tried going through the corner in many different ways, but in the end I always had to either do a major lift or touch the brakes a little, while Bottas seemingly did it flat out each time. And I was running a top 5 TT setup too, so very high front wing. The car just won't turn in flat, no matter what.

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11 hours ago, Blent said:

You have to be careful about using laptimes to compare performance when Austria and Zandvoort are much shorter laptimes than Paul Ricard and Bahrain.

Using a percentage comparison would be more accurate.

I agree, and I used percentages in my rough checks before giving that info. Zandvoort particularly is still the standout. It's just giving the info as X seconds per lap is much more easily digestible to show the severity of the pace variation to the average person than say, 80 difficulty AI being 104.4% slower at Austria than the WR compared to 105.5% slower at Bahrain. Also it's risky using Bahrain, as since it's the first track, people have focussed on it much more in Time Trial and will likely put up much more optimised times. 

Below is what I found comparing WR times to 80 difficulty pole times. Didn't do all tracks and only once each, so it's definitely only a rough look:

  ai pole (80) wr sec dif perc
bahrain 88.724 84.085 4.639 105.5%
spain 77.521 73.884 3.637 104.9%
monaco 70.934 66.916 4.018 106.0%
baku 100.559 95.928 4.631 104.8%
canada 70.851 66.941 3.91 105.8%
france 91.379 86.505 4.874 105.6%
austria 64.763 62.02 2.743 104.4%
britain 88.239 84.194 4.045 104.8%
netherlands 70.917 68.193 2.724 104.0%
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Copse is a nightmare 2021, flatout is next to impossible and if you try it and turn in like before the rear catches up. Same with all the above.

I know there’s supposed to be 10% less downforce thnx to the new rules, but it has to be taken in account that teams have already gained back 6% or more.

look at the red bull at austria, or even in silverstone, IT WAS ON RAILS and well, we are far from it. The rear is way to unstable and unpredictable. 
 

and looking at austria, verstappen did a 1:03.720 as pole (which could have been a bit faster) but then the 1:01.600 that the AI is doing is just BONKERS! That’s 2 seconds faster, not even on 110% 

unrealistic in my opinion. 
 

Plus taking in account the way how relentless kerbs are in combination with the weird behaviour of the rear end, causes a lot of spins

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18 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

Plus taking in account the way how relentless kerbs are in combination with the weird behaviour of the rear end, causes a lot of spins

Idk man, the kerbs I can deal with, after some practice. And I have no problem with the rear. Through Copse and Pouhon it's the understeer that's the problem, not oversteer. The car just can't turn in under full throttle and you go off the track.

There will always be some discrepancy between real life lap times and in game ones. The main thing here is that in fast corners AI are able to do things that should be impossible this year. It's like Codies changed physics for the player, but not for AI.

Edited by CityGhostGamer
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3 minutes ago, CityGhostGamer said:

Idk man, the kerbs I can deal with, after some practice. And I have no problem with the rear. Through Copse and Pouhon it's the understeer that's the problem, not oversteer. The car just can't turn in under full throttle and you go off the track.

Yep and how do you compensate understeer? Turning harder, or adjust wings, springs, any way, when you try to compensate the understeer it snaps to oversteer. Maggots and becketts is the same story.

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  • DRTApophis changed the title to Physically impossible cornering speed of AI in Zandvoort turn 7

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