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AI ridiculously fast in high speed corners


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1 minute ago, AlexTT said:

Yep and how do you compensate understeer? Turning harder, or adjust wings, springs, any way, when you try to compensate the understeer it snaps to oversteer. Maggots and becketts is the same story.

Touche.

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I did some research.

Here's my telemetry (using @Ender0042's excellent free telemetry app) of my best Q1 lap at Spa vs my AI team mate Armstrong's best FP3 lap at 97 difficulty, both on Softs.

While my lap was much quicker because it was qualifying and I could use full ERS and fresh Softs and was pushing as hard as I could (you'll see how much more speed I have on the two main straights), Armstrong is much quicker through Pouhon, which is T12.

Personally, I can live with this because the AI are pretty well balanced the rest of the lap, but it does suggest to me people aren't wrong to say the AI can take certain corners much quicker than we can.

Pouhon2.png

Edited by Blent
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I wish they could take away some of their speed through Pouhon and add it to their exit onto the back straight - glad to see I'm not the only one feeling like I get brake checked in that corner. A similar trace with Zandvoort turns 7 & 8 would be interesting.

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40 minutes ago, Blent said:

I did some research.

Here's my telemetry (using @Ender0042's excellent free telemetry app) of my best Q1 lap at Spa vs my AI team mate Armstrong's best FP3 lap at 97 difficulty, both on Softs.

While my lap was much quicker because it was qualifying and I could use full ERS and fresh Softs and was pushing as hard as I could (you'll see how much more speed I have on the two main straights), Armstrong is much quicker through Pouhon, which is T12.

Personally, I can live with this because the AI are pretty well balanced the rest of the lap, but it does suggest to me people aren't wrong to say the AI can take certain corners much quicker than we can.

Pouhon2.png

I would like to see a comparison of Copse and maggots and beckets but then in GP mode between lets say hamilton and verstappen

Edited by AlexTT
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A detailed description of the issue.

AI seemingly are able to take this specific corner (Zandvoort turn 7) at much higher speed than players could physically do in the same car, and despite tuning down the difficulty setting from 105 to 95, they're still taking that turn at very similar speed. I've heard other tracks have similar issue, which I've tested Silverstone, Spa, and Austria, yet this specific corner in Zandvoort is way worse than any of those tracks. 

Platform?

PC

Game-mode?

So far I've only tested Grand Prix mode, but I'm assuming Ai would be even faster in Career modes because the car upgrades usually improve their performance exponentially. 

What troubleshooting have you tried? Please list everything you tried.

Tested with the Red Bull car, lowering the difficulty settings to 95, lowering fuel loads (1 lap down in 25% race), and setting the car to run properly at max downforce, still couldn't take that corner at any speed close to Max with clean air ahead, he could easily pull 0.5 to a whopping full second on that corner alone, yet the rest of the track they were slower than me because I could still get purple in sector 1 and 3 quite easily. AI didn't have this issue in F1 2020 and I could even play at 110% with relatively ease.

How do you make the problem happen? Please add a step-by-step guide here so we can replicate and get reported as quick as possible.

The issue is always present, I recommend you test with the RBR car since it had decent rear downforce and less power than the Mercedes so it's more forgiving when accelerating down the exit of that corner. 

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  • DRTApophis changed the title to Physically impossible cornering speed of AI in Zandvoort turn 7
2 hours ago, Blent said:

Personally, I can live with this because the AI are pretty well balanced the rest of the lap

I'm not sure how you can say that. I mean, if you're losing 3 tenths through Pouhon, but gaining more though the rest of the lap, then yeah. But I wouldn't call that balanced. Balanced is when you're within 1 tenth of your teammate and very close to the cars of similar performance level to yours. And if you've calibrated your difficulty level on some other track without this problem, then in Spa you will be 3 tenths slower than before compared to AI, which will make all the difference in the world in both quali and in the race. To mitigate this, you will have to lower the difficulty. But the thing is, it's not a solution to the problem, it's only a patch, a band-aid.

Yeah, some people are fine with calibrating their difficulty level for each track individually, but I felt no need to do that in 2020, and I don't want to do that now. Certainly not because of Codies' mistake. No offence.

Edited by CityGhostGamer
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1 hour ago, DRTApophis said:

A detailed description of the issue.

AI seemingly are able to take this specific corner (Zandvoort turn 7) at much higher speed than players could physically do in the same car, and despite tuning down the difficulty setting from 105 to 95, they're still taking that turn at very similar speed. I've heard other tracks have similar issue, which I've tested Silverstone, Spa, and Austria, yet this specific corner in Zandvoort is way worse than any of those tracks. 

Platform?

PC

Game-mode?

So far I've only tested Grand Prix mode, but I'm assuming Ai would be even faster in Career modes because the car upgrades usually improve their performance exponentially. 

What troubleshooting have you tried? Please list everything you tried.

Tested with the Red Bull car, lowering the difficulty settings to 95, lowering fuel loads (1 lap down in 25% race), and setting the car to run properly at max downforce, still couldn't take that corner at any speed close to Max with clean air ahead, he could easily pull 0.5 to a whopping full second on that corner alone, yet the rest of the track they were slower than me because I could still get purple in sector 1 and 3 quite easily. AI didn't have this issue in F1 2020 and I could even play at 110% with relatively ease.

How do you make the problem happen? Please add a step-by-step guide here so we can replicate and get reported as quick as possible.

The issue is always present, I recommend you test with the RBR car since it had decent rear downforce and less power than the Mercedes so it's more forgiving when accelerating down the exit of that corner. 

Its not only pc but also on xbox, Just everywhere. @BarryBLwatch TOM97HD his tweets about the ai status. Its insane and Just stupid

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6 minutes ago, CityGhostGamer said:

Yeah, some people are fine with calibrating their difficulty level for each track individually, but I felt no need to do that in 2020, and I don't want to do that now. Certainly not because of Codies' mistake. No offence.

No offence, but I felt far more need to adjust AI level per track on F1 2020 than I have in my career so far in F1 2021.

The AI was always slightly OP in Silverstone and way, way underpowered in Singapore. Whereas now, I haven't felt the need to adjust it because, as I say, I feels pretty balanced to me.

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17 minutes ago, Blent said:

No offence, but I felt far more need to adjust AI level per track on F1 2020 than I have in my career so far in F1 2021.

The AI was always slightly OP in Silverstone and way, way underpowered in Singapore. Whereas now, I haven't felt the need to adjust it because, as I say, I feels pretty balanced to me.

Fair enough. I haven't done any career myself yet, so I can't argue here.

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Tom Martinez just released a video where he experiences the issue firsthand. At the end he mentions all the exact same corners that have been mentioned in this thread. And he had the luxury of experiencing Spa both wet and dry. Next up is Zandvoort. I'm going to prepare some popcorn XD

 

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Hi there, given that I haven't raced much yet, if not a little in Monza, I add here the data I have collected as a comparison between F1 2020 & F1 2021 AI 110 with PS4/PS5.

Image1.jpg.d3ecc68958283d569275f1a943a09d9c.jpg

Some notes:
-1- they are taken in a single attempt in GP mode, so they may not be super accurate
-2- I still have no idea how fast I can run 2021 cars, so the table has absolutely partial meaning
(for example I'm currently a couple of tenths slower in Monza, while the AI looks the same)

Based on my experience in F1 2020 where at Silverstone I was struggling to keep up with the AI, I welcomed the clear worsening in lap time there, but reading this topic I guess there are still problems on the fast corners. Didn't personally checked yet.

In other tracks which were easy in F1 2020 (Austria, Monaco, Singapore) now the AI looks much faster, but it's hard at the moment to say if it's better or not for the player (because of -2-).

Regards,
Nuv

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3 hours ago, AlexisMalcolm said:

So I rather have the impression that it is only on PC that the AI is overperformed. To do with the others.

Nah man, it's exactly the same on PS5.

 

11 hours ago, 1512marcel said:

A video would be good to have on this issue.

I can make a video or two, but only when I'll get home in the evening.

It's actually very easy to replicate, just set your usual difficulty level or even a little lower, do a single GP in Spa as Hamilton, take pole, start the race and then just watch the gap between you and AI shrink by 3-5 tenths through Pouhon. You can do it in other ways, but taking Mercedes and pole position ensures that your car and dirty air have nothing to do with it. Same can be done on any other affected track, of course.

You can even set max front wing, or even both wings. Spoiler: it won't help.

Edited by CityGhostGamer
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On 7/22/2021 at 12:13 PM, BarryBL said:

Thanks for the reports everyone, keep them coming.

 

A detailed description of the issue.

AI are able to take high-speed corners at much higher speeds than players can. I personally experienced it mostly in Copse (Silverstone) and Pouhon (Spa), but Spain, Austria, Zandvoort and basically all tracks containing at least one high-speed corner are affected. Last year we could take Copse and Pouhon flat out, but this year we can's due to reduced overall downforce. AI, however, still take all those corners flat like there's nothing to it.

Platform?

PS5

Game-mode?

All

What troubleshooting have you tried? Please list everything you tried.

I tried different setups, including top 5 time trial setups, I lowered the difficulty and increased front wing angle to the max. None of these allowed me to take Pouhon flat or eliminated AI's gain on me through the corner.

How do you make the problem happen? Please add a step-by-step guide here so we can replicate and get reported as quick as possible.

I select Gran Prix mode, Mercedes, Hamilton, Spa-Francorchamps, 90 AI difficulty, one-shot quali, 5 lap race, then I take the pole, then in the race I pull several seconds on Bottas (to eliminate the dirty air effects), and then try to take Pouhon as fast as I can and watch the gap to Bottas shrink rapidly. Then I do flashbacks and try again, again and again.

Edited by CityGhostGamer
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Hello everyone, so I want to add video evidence to the topics mentioned here! While I think 110AI should be tough and dare I say almost impossible, it needs to be balanced out, which right now, it isn't.

All I want to mention in regards to context (as most the of the thread is identical), is that I'm running 110AI using the World Record TT setups (and in the case of Zandvoort, 11-10 wings)

Britain: 

 

Spa: 

 

Zandvoort: 

 

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I think the problem with AI being massively quick exists on all tracks in fast corners. Bahrain/Canada where there are no fast flowing corners, you can match the AI in similar car but tracks like Silverstone/Austria (Sector 3 and last part of Sector 2)/ Monza (Ascari)/ Spa (Puohon) etc they are insanely fast through the corners.

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5 hours ago, imranap said:

I think the problem with AI being massively quick exists on all tracks in fast corners. Bahrain/Canada where there are no fast flowing corners, you can match the AI in similar car but tracks like Silverstone/Austria (Sector 3 and last part of Sector 2)/ Monza (Ascari)/ Spa (Puohon) etc they are insanely fast through the corners.

I agree, that seems to be exactly the issue. The reason people discuss these particular corners is because they illustrate it the best and make it very obvious. I'm sure Codies will find the exact reason why this is happening and hopefully implement a fix in the next patch.

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