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AI ridiculously fast in high speed corners


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Just now, aartstyle said:

T9 Spain 

@aartstyle If you would like to add a corner/area, please request and add a video of you in a OSQ comparing the performance (so we can see the ghost car). This will give a honest and impartial view to the developers of if the AI is too good in that area, or it is by design. My current list has been passed onto devs for analysis.

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I second T9 on Spain being an issue. I disagree that T15 at Zandvoort is an issue - I've found that the AI is actually far too slow through the last two corners here. At Spa, T15, before the back straight, is another section where the AI are far too SLOW. I'll post some videos when possible, just throwing my opinion in there to see if anyone agrees.

Edited by NinjaElmo
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3 hours ago, BarryBL said:

Is there is any I have missed, please let me know. I must stress here, it is areas/corners (basically specifics) I will need and where the AI gain a substantial advantage BY COMPARISON to your peak performance, not necessarily areas that are difficult.

- In Suzuka the problem is not 130R, but the esses in sector 1. The 130R I can take flat no problem, it's not even really a corner.

- In Zandvoort I'm not sure there's any problem with T8, it's mainly T7. And in T15 AI are not too fast, but the exact opposite, they're far too slow through the banking.

The rest seems pretty accurate. I'll try to record Spain T9 right now.

UPD Spain T9 turned out to be not so bad, actually. At least in my opinion. Also, it's kinda difficult to judge the gap in OSQ as there's no delta on screen.

Edited by CityGhostGamer
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I remember I was one of the first to comment on this issue a few weeks ago. I’m in the middle of a wet race (Intermediate level wet) at Zandvoort. My car is the second best overall with Mercedes being the best. In the dry in qualifying Hamilton and Bottas were 0.425/sec faster than me but in the race I’m about 0.600-0.700/sec a lap faster. In my opinion I’m not noticing the AI being OP in T7-T9 in the rain. It’s like the rain neutralizes the AI’s advantage in those series of corners.

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18 hours ago, MPHGP817 said:

In my opinion I’m not noticing the AI being OP in T7-T9 in the rain. It’s like the rain neutralizes the AI’s advantage in those series of corners.

Yes, this is part of the reason why I disregarded the post from blackheartbart7 as being irrelevant to the topic. In wet conditions AI seem to behave on a totally separate algorithm.

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On 8/12/2021 at 11:53 AM, BarryBL said:

Can you provide videos to confirm these everyone. Just important for direct comparison

Hello @BarryBL I would agree that Spain T9 needs to be added to this list and have provided some evidence below.

Here is a one-shot qualification lap, with myself at Bottas, at AI level 98. I am running a relatively high downforce setup (8-10 wings) and so should be quick in the corners. Overall I was able to match the AI through most of the lap, however, I lost a significant amount of time at T9. I finished +0.225s off of Hamilton.

F1 2021 Spain One Shot Qualy

The telemetry data for this lap (in blue) and Hamilton's lap (in red) is attached to this post. The top graph is speed over distance and the bottom graph is throttle over distance. As you can see, I was able to match the AI reasonably well through all parts of the lap with the exception of T9. in addition, it can be seen in the throttle trace that the AI does not have to lift at all in T9 which is unrealistic as the player's car is incapable of going through this turn at full throttle, no matter the setup. Even the quickest time trial guys on youtube are having to lift here.

As an aside, I would say that Spain T1 and T3 from your list are not a problem. Despite taking a poor line through these corners I was still able to stay very close to the AI.

As a bonus, here's a compilation of me trying to push the limit at T9 and match the AI. Predictably, I am unable to match the AI on any of my runs and many finish with losing control.

More T9 Attempts

 

SpainTelemetry.PNG

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7 hours ago, thatdc said:

Anyone noticed AI too fast in turns 11-12 Melbourne, Austrialia?

No matter the setup, I always loose 4 tenths in that high speed chicane.

After some playing around here with Barry's conditions I would agree that T11-T12 is also experiencing this issue. @BarryBL evidence below again.

Same situation, I am playing as Bottas, now on 100 AI. Running 7-9 wings.

F1 2021 Australia One Shot Qualy

It is quite visible in this one with the AI clearly trailing in my mirror prior to T11 and then blasting away leaving me in the dust on the exit of T12.

Telemetry attached to the bottom again. Me in blue, AI in red. Top graph speed, bottom graph throttle. Overall I get a pretty good beat on the AI in sector 1 with higher apex speeds in almost every corner. However, the AI absolutely smashes me in T11 and T12. Similar to my Spain T9 post above, the player HAS to lift significantly more than the AI here to remain stable. In fact, in T12 the AI does not lift at all which I do not believe is reasonable for the player to match. In the remainder of the lap I either match or beat the AI.

AustraliaTelemetry2.PNG

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13 hours ago, Andrew2448 said:

In fact, in T12 the AI does not lift at all which I do not believe is reasonable for the player to match. In the remainder of the lap I either match or beat the AI.

I agree, totally. In corners like Copse or Zandvoort T7 its understeer that's the problem, but here and through Ascari, for example, it's simply the stability of the car over kerbs. The player car is hyper-sensitive to every little bump this year, but AI don't seem to give a damn at all.

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23 hours ago, thatdc said:

Anyone noticed AI too fast in turns 11-12 Melbourne, Austrialia?

No matter the setup, I always loose 4 tenths in that high speed chicane.

Yes! I wanted to mention it but didn’t have the ability to provide evidence for it. But this is definitely one to be added to the list. 

 

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Actually, has anyone noticed or mentioned the last 2 corners of Abu Dhabi? I can keep up with AI on 95 for the whole lap, but in the last two corners of Yas Marina I lose so much time. Unfortunately I don’t have the ability to provide video evidence, and it could be down to driver error but I definitely find I lost a lot of time to the AI in those two corners. 

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6 hours ago, 66Moo said:

Actually, has anyone noticed or mentioned the last 2 corners of Abu Dhabi? I can keep up with AI on 95 for the whole lap, but in the last two corners of Yas Marina I lose so much time. Unfortunately I don’t have the ability to provide video evidence, and it could be down to driver error but I definitely find I lost a lot of time to the AI in those two corners. 

I'd say those are tricky corner, but not impossible. I run on 86 around there and I see there are some imbalances in that track. For example T8-9 AI is sooo slow, while in T20-21 I always lose a couple of tenths

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ITALY - Monza

Hi there, I have run a little bit only in Monza so far, here my focus on the Ascari (8) and perhaps also Parabolica (11).
Given that I might not be up to the best, but I get interesting results both from the times of the sectors, and from the telemetry.
I run with no aids & Strict severity cut.

In the following table I compare my data with AI 110 and AI 105, in both case I can match (or beat) the AI in the first 2 sectors, while I'm (quite a lot) slower in the last sector which is just Ascari + Parabolica. Especially in the 105 table the clear difference is easily readable.

My laptimes in Q are made with Bottas while AI is always Hamilton. The 'gap' is with AI time:

AI_Monza_Ascari_chk.jpg.58ed1aa68e8a1596ced032989506d73e.jpg

 

Some images on telemetry will follow. You should always look at # 8 (and # 11). I am not making any particular comments, I let you read the images by yourself, they substantially confirm the data in the tables.

I only emphasize the feeling of an acceleration out of the #8 Ascari impossible for me (the curve of the AI has a sudden surge in speed between #8 and #9). And the possibility of having a minimum peak of speed much higher than mine (even the AI 105) at the #11 Parabolica, as if they had less understeer.

In the legend on the top right I am always Bottas (or Nuvolarix) while the AI is Hamilton:

bestAscari_vs_AI110.thumb.jpg.b05fb660c39acec33403466d2daa996a.jpg

bestAscari_vs_AI105.thumb.jpg.2e045a0ddcb2aea7897208573fed42a0.jpg

bestQ_vs_AI110.thumb.jpg.7c4fde842efa20d30c4a78ae8a58b256.jpg

bestQ_vs_AI105.thumb.jpg.24ce35e22e543bd4dbac249b6e96f145.jpg

bestTT_vs_AI110.thumb.jpg.bc0163cce75d4a54633a7fba84edcf97.jpg

bestTT_vs_AI105.thumb.jpg.af47b925eb9dc8d11b4ea797e4f90701.jpg

 

Here my setup which shouldn't be understeering (at least for what is possible with 2021 cars):


setup.jpg.4e386bc3ee3de7b119a8b47da8069784.jpg

 

In the near future I will look at the various curves where there can be suspected bug in AI, as I encounter them.

Greetings,
Nuv

Edited by Nuvolarix
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14 hours ago, Nuvolarix said:

I only emphasize the feeling of an acceleration out of the #8 Ascari impossible for me (the curve of the AI has a sudden surge in speed between #8 and #9).

Judging by your telemetry, it looks like AI are accelerating towards the last kerb of Ascari at full throttle, then doing a split second lift while going over the kerb and then immediately go full throttle again. So they don't lose control thanks to the lift, but at the same time it's so fast that they don't lose any speed either. Win-win.

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2 hours ago, CityGhostGamer said:

Judging by your telemetry, it looks like AI are accelerating towards the last kerb of Ascari at full throttle, then doing a split second lift while going over the kerb and then immediately go full throttle again. So they don't lose control thanks to the lift, but at the same time it's so fast that they don't lose any speed either. Win-win.

Yes, exactly. Impossible to replicate at least for me. Perhaps I could do it with “Normal” severity cut, not sure

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I understand that solving this issue could take time but it would be nice to have an update every so often as to knowing what progress has been made. I’m sure lots of other people would like to know if this issue is going to take priority and be the main focus for the next update. Thanks

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