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No Assists vs Assists


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This year it is absolutely a joke. 

There is nearly no benefit to drive without assists...

Full TC is nearly the same as no TC what???

and faster then medium TC???

Thats what I see with my races online, i have to push hard and be gentle at the same time to keep up with casuals playing with all assists...without any punishment...

EA is takin over...

F1 2021 : Assists vs No Assists - YouTube

 

Im not salty how people wants to play their game, every one has the right and has their options how they like...but cmon in online ranked f.e no assists driver should be rewarded.

Im not the best without assists, im still learning but at least i try to do it right

Edited by 2Pacalypse
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, FullThrottle152 said:

Assists do appear OP this year, you can see that on the time trial leaderboard. The top 100 times on tracks are full of drivers using TC, ABS. 

that`s pain in the a** and its not acceptable.

This has to be patched! 

@BarryBL please report to the Dev Team

 

Edited by 2Pacalypse
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Personally what I'd like to see would be separate TT leaderboards and rank system for no assist drivers. Trying to artificially make using assists slower always felt like a slightly odd concept since assists like TC and ABS should obviously make people quicker.

Edit: for context I do drive without assists, just not very quickly! 

Edited by Ultra3142
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21 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

since assists like TC and ABS should obviously make people quicker.

TC is not a grip boost (like people always think, only in wet conditions it is a huge help), TC its torque limitation --> less acceleration --> less speed it can`t be faster then without! it is only a help not lose the car as the name suggests "traction control" 

ABS is arguable, on the one hand it allows you to brake and steer at the same time, but on the other hand the braking force is never the same as without ABS, because the wheel is upright and therefore uses the entire contact area.

So from the physical and technical point of view, its not correct that ABS & TC is faster.

21 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

for context I do drive without assists, just not very quickly! 

same for me bro 😉

Edited by 2Pacalypse
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7 minutes ago, 2Pacalypse said:

TC is not a grip boost (like people always think, only in wet conditions it is a huge help), TC its torque limitation --> less acceleration --> less speed it can`t be faster then without! it is only a help not lose the car as the name suggests "traction control" 

ABS is arguable, on the one hand it allows you to brake and steer at the same time, but on the other hand the braking force is never the same as without ABS, because the wheel is upright and therefore uses the entire contact area.

So from the physical and technical point of view, its not correct that ABS & TC is faster.

I know exactly what TC is and my point about it making people faster stands. It makes it easier to accelerate as fast as possible consistently. Trying to do the same with TC off firstly takes a lot more skill and even then some margin for error has to be left to avoid spinning.

ABS similarly allows braking to be optimised better than anyone's foot can manage. There is zero debate on this one.

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the same unnecessary discussion every year. Controller drivers are faster, people with driving aids are faster blah blah blah sorry guys i have to say something about that. Sometimes I ask myself whether the people who initiate such discussions even understand what driver assistance systems are for. these systems are there to be able to move a car as safely as possible for the less experienced. not everyone plays F1 all day but also has a life. but these people just want to drive fast and also want to have a chance against pros. here are 2 videos linked and in the first of these videos you can clearly see that you are much faster without driving aids. The difference is 3.5 seconds. in the end it will unfortunately be the case again that you people screw up the fun of the game because you moan anew every time about controllers or driving aids that can't be serious. I myself am always on the move with ABS and TC medium because I drive with a controller. Last year there was also moaning because they are overpowered and that was then processed and I lost the fun of F1 2020 because it just became much harder to drive. Sometimes you had to struggle more than someone who hadn't switched on a driving aid. So again for everyone: just because you don't use driving aids does not mean that you are automatically much, much, much faster and more superior.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

and my point about it making people faster stands

yes it helps and casual gamer think that they are faster with it, but let some esports drivers drive with TC on, they would be 2 sec of their pace. And i think this diffrence is still to small. 

In my opinion it should be more rewarded not to use these assists, fact a) you learn better the understanding of your car behavior, b) you will drive carefully against other opponents not to spin > more clean racing in online modes.

 

btw im also a "casual gamer" who spent maybe 1 hour/day with playing video game, but that makes me nuts to play online, where dirty drivers get more rewarded then people, who actually try to play fair.

Edited by 2Pacalypse
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13 minutes ago, 2Pacalypse said:

yes it helps and casual gamer think that they are faster with it, but let some esports drivers drive with TC on, they would be 2 sec of their pace. And i think this diffrence is still to small. 

In my opinion it should be more rewarded not to use these assists, fact a) you learn better the understanding of your car behavior, b) you will drive carefully against other opponents not to spin > more clean racing in online modes.

 

btw im also a "casual gamer" who spent maybe 1 hour/day with playing video game, but that makes me nuts to play online, where dirty drivers get more rewarded then people, who actually try to play fair.

You've misunderstood me. If Lewis Hamilton had TC and ABS in his car then he would be faster. The same would be true if the game accurately reflected reality.

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4 hours ago, FullThrottle152 said:

Assists do appear OP this year, you can see that on the time trial leaderboard. The top 100 times on tracks are full of drivers using TC, ABS. 

well, if I look at the leaderboard times on PS5, it's all green with ABS, so if that's the case then it has to be OP because a lot of those drivers normally don't use it in previous versions.

I have to say that braking has become way more different. Not directly more difficult, more challenging. Without ABS I completely have to learn how braking works in 2021 because it's "weirder"? without ABS when trying to trailbrake, because you can brake later now, braking feels harder, but it's so relentless when you brake TOO hard en the back comes around on 56% or 54% bias. The car has the tendency to do stuff it never did before. Don't know if this was intended, but it just feels strange compared to previous versions.

TC is just TC, always the easy way out to take away risk. On controller i can understand using it, but when you're on a wheel, i don;t know.... Why else do you buy a wheel? To get the best immersion possible right? I just don't understand why people spend hundreds of bucks on wheels and even pedals with Loadcells and all, and then use ABS and TC. 

I love that satisfying feeling when you do a good race, kept it on track, and in 1 piece when finishing.

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2 hours ago, ritti1987 said:

the same unnecessary discussion every year. Controller drivers are faster, people with driving aids are faster blah blah blah sorry guys i have to say something about that. Sometimes I ask myself whether the people who initiate such discussions even understand what driver assistance systems are for. these systems are there to be able to move a car as safely as possible for the less experienced. not everyone plays F1 all day but also has a life. but these people just want to drive fast and also want to have a chance against pros. here are 2 videos linked and in the first of these videos you can clearly see that you are much faster without driving aids. The difference is 3.5 seconds. in the end it will unfortunately be the case again that you people screw up the fun of the game because you moan anew every time about controllers or driving aids that can't be serious. I myself am always on the move with ABS and TC medium because I drive with a controller. Last year there was also moaning because they are overpowered and that was then processed and I lost the fun of F1 2020 because it just became much harder to drive. Sometimes you had to struggle more than someone who hadn't switched on a driving aid. So again for everyone: just because you don't use driving aids does not mean that you are automatically much, much, much faster and more superior.

I'm sorry but that last remark makes me laugh so hard. If people can drive fast without assists on controller or wheel, especially on controller they then have my deepest respect because that's HARD! But if people without assists are faster than people with assists, they actually ARE much much much faster and superior. After all they finish ahead of the assist users.  Plus they have a lot or car control, and gotten actually gud in driving a F1 car. 

plus you say it like what you say is truth, well, if I should start using TC and ABS, there's zero to none risk involved in racing and braking. Because ABS always let you make a corner by braking excessively later then non ABS users and you can steer at the same time, whilst TC saves you from spinning out when taking a curb too hard or ramming another player. They even don't slow people down when they have damage. 

So people who don't use assists will be more "superior" because they can actually handle a F1 car without training wheels. Just that simple. They practice and invest time to learn to git gud with handling, so yes they will be better. Practice makes perfect (or superior) after all.

 

(i just love when I can talk with my sarcastic voice 😛 )

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13 hours ago, AlexTT said:

I'm sorry but that last remark makes me laugh so hard. If people can drive fast without assists on controller or wheel, especially on controller they then have my deepest respect because that's HARD! But if people without assists are faster than people with assists, they actually ARE much much much faster and superior. After all they finish ahead of the assist users.  Plus they have a lot or car control, and gotten actually gud in driving a F1 car. 

plus you say it like what you say is truth, well, if I should start using TC and ABS, there's zero to none risk involved in racing and braking. Because ABS always let you make a corner by braking excessively later then non ABS users and you can steer at the same time, whilst TC saves you from spinning out when taking a curb too hard or ramming another player. They even don't slow people down when they have damage. 

So people who don't use assists will be more "superior" because they can actually handle a F1 car without training wheels. Just that simple. They practice and invest time to learn to git gud with handling, so yes they will be better. Practice makes perfect (or superior) after all.

 

(i just love when I can talk with my sarcastic voice 😛 )

I agree with that if you have the inclination and the time to practice driving without driving aids. But not everyone has the time they need for it. Then every year we cry about the fact that driving aids are so much faster is just ridiculous and that's what really mattered to me. I have probably expressed myself a bit misleadingly. Of course you are always faster and more thoughtful without driving aids, but there are people who either don't feel like driving or simply don't have the time to practice driving without driving aids. These people just want to have fun and race online nicely. But if you now significantly weaken the driving aids, then you are taking away the fun from the wrong people. especially since it has been every year in the time trail the first few weeks there have always been people who use driving aids and were among the top 100. but that regulates itself over time, only every time this demand of "the driving aids are overpowered, they have to be significantly weaker" is simply nonsense.

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1 hour ago, ritti1987 said:

These people just want to have fun and race online nicely.

Thats bs, people who never learn to drive without TC, racing line or pit stop assists will never drive fair online.

Because they never be punished for mistakes.

Im ok with TC for beginners and casual players like you said, but for ranked lobby it is important to remove the racing line and pit stop assists at least these 2 and maybe TC to medium.

In unranked it is a no-brainer all assists allowed 

But its all about ranked, where it **** me off.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, 2Pacalypse said:

Thats bs, people who never learn to drive without TC, racing line or pit stop assists will never drive fair online.

that's the biggest **** I've ever read. i have a volatile job from working hours and have family. when i'm free i use the time with my family and when they are out i use the time and play games. I still ride fairly, even though I have activated TC medium, ABS, automatic gearshift and ideal line. ERS and pit assistant are switched off by default simply because it is part of the process to brake for the pit yourself. So you shouldn't generalize because that's the biggest ******** you can say. If you can, you can only drive the ranking list if you drive without driving aids. That's pretty discriminatory. Everyone should play as they want, with or without driving aids, should be completely latte. People without driving aids always think they are the kings and they own the route. i am often overtaken by people without driving aids and what is noticeable is that they leave very little space. but people with driving aids drive unfairly. hahahah I laugh myself to death

 

10 minutes ago, 2Pacalypse said:

But its all about ranked, where it **** me off.

little tip .... then don't go online and cry softly

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I don't care about your personal life you re not the 1st and last guy with a job and a family, I have also these things. 

Its not about that, its simple about driving.

Best example I have pit stop off and have to brake from behind a maniac with assists on crash to me at entry.

Guess what I get 5 sec penalty for causing a collision and 5 sec for speeding in pit lane because he accelerated me with the impact.

And this maniac? Nothing absolutely nothing.

Removing racing line is also not big deal, you have to concentrate more and thats makes cleaner race. That's fact, don't search for excuses.

I give you arguments and examples you giving me only your bs opinion, thats the difference! 

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26 minutes ago, 2Pacalypse said:

Thats bs, people who never learn to drive without TC, racing line or pit stop assists will never drive fair online.

Nonsense. Choosing to deliberately ram other cars off the road is down to player mentality, not use of assists. 

You make a valid point about pit assist use where this leads to collisions though.

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In my opinion abs is the most overpowered thing on the game I drive for 3 f1 games now with no assist and my Bahrain time was a 25.4 with no assist my mates with assist do better times like 24.9-25.0 I decided to turn on abs and on the very 1st lap I do a 25.1 sorry but *** 

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TC needs to have the drawback of reduced power coming out of corners. Throttle control is rewarding as a driver and as the car going faster. 

ABS usually allows deeper breaking without locking up but if one doesnt know how to approach a corner it just give stability than without assist.

Unfortunately we don't really know the impacts of those assists in modern f1 nor how advanced they would be nowadays if it was allowed, only the theoretical understanding of such aids. I see many games which abs does give an edge and many just give in and use it as "meta" and real f1 wanted to take away such aids to value driver skill than tech racing.

All things considered, the game needs to decide if they want to balance the classes or really separate the driving experiences in its lobbies. But, with so many dirty drivers running amock, this seems unlikely for the time.

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I do think that if there were separate assist/no-assist ranked lobbies that the no-assist ones would likely be cleaner than we have now. Not perfect but cleaner. I say this as to me at least it seems those inclined to spend the time and effort to try learn how to drive without assists are more likely to be looking for good/realistic racing. This is NOT to say there aren't huge numbers of clean drivers who use assists - there absolutely are.

17 minutes ago, Hichel18 said:

Unfortunately we don't really know the impacts of those assists in modern f1 nor how advanced they would be nowadays if it was allowed, only the theoretical understanding of such aids. I see many games which abs does give an edge and many just give in and use it as "meta" and real f1 wanted to take away such aids to value driver skill than tech racing.

True but I still think we can be certain that allowing TC or ABS would make the cars faster. Teams introduced both into F1 specifically for this reason, and they achieved this. They wouldn't have been used otherwise 🙂.

Edited by Ultra3142
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12 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

I do think that if there were separate assist/no-assist ranked lobbies that the no-assist one would likely to be cleaner than we have now. Not perfect but cleaner. I say this as to me at least it seems those inclined to spend the time and effort to try learn how to drive without assists are more likely to be looking for good/realistic racing. This is NOT to say there aren't huge numbers of clean drivers who use assists - there absolutely are.

True but I still think we can be certain that allowing TC or ABS would make the cars faster. Teams introduced both into F1 specifically for this reason, and they achieved this. They wouldn't have been used otherwise 🙂.

I agree, such assists would allow a deeper racing and safety control of the car that could allow for as fast or quicker times, with robust setups around it. Engineers have the way too 😄

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

I do think that if there were separate assist/no-assist ranked lobbies that the no-assist ones would likely be cleaner than we have now. Not perfect but cleaner. I say this as to me at least it seems those inclined to spend the time and effort to try learn how to drive without assists are more likely to be looking for good/realistic racing. This is NOT to say there aren't huge numbers of clean drivers who use assists - there absolutely are.

True but I still think we can be certain that allowing TC or ABS would make the cars faster. Teams introduced both into F1 specifically for this reason, and they achieved this. They wouldn't have been used otherwise 🙂.

That’s what I’m saying for years! Non assist racers know the risk when braking too late, how touching each other wil hurt both in a spin and so on.

It requires a complete different driving style, and more awareness, which results in people racing (mostly) cleaner, but are also sportsmanlike enough to admit when they make a mistake which could hurt someone else.

if i have assist users with abs in the lobby, the divebombs are crazy, you see them pull away on kerbs as if they’re not there, heck I even get outbraked bij people who are on the grass.

i have said in another topic of mine what could be a good way to minimalise these things bij making assists linked to the so called Skill level. The higher the skill level, the less assists used. So can people who use all assists for example never get higher then silver1, and the less assists are used, the higher you can get, and i will bet the better the lobbies get and the cleaner the racing which in result turns into more fun and more usage of ranked lobbies.

Now so called skill rank means ZERO, nothing, it’s hollow and people have no incentive to want to get to highest level, because let’s be honest, someone who’s highest level who uses all assists, hasn’t got the same skill as someone who uses less assists or no assists. The less assists you use, the higher your SKILL level. Not saying who’s faster of better, but the one investing time to get better and used to no assists should be rewarded to be able to climb higher on the ladder, as for now It means absolutely nothing when you reach that level because everyone can get there. Fine by me, but then don’t call it SKILL level. Skill should reflect actual skill based on assists. Nothing else. 
 

and i will bet the lobbies on the higher levels will be cleaner, more fun and FAIR! 

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10 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

That’s what I’m saying for years! Non assist racers know the risk when braking too late, how touching each other wil hurt both in a spin and so on.

It requires a complete different driving style, and more awareness, which results in people racing (mostly) cleaner, but are also sportsmanlike enough to admit when they make a mistake which could hurt someone else.

if i have assist users with abs in the lobby, the divebombs are crazy, you see them pull away on kerbs as if they’re not there, heck I even get outbraked bij people who are on the grass.

i have said in another topic of mine what could be a good way to minimalise these things bij making assists linked to the so called Skill level. The higher the skill level, the less assists used. So can people who use all assists for example never get higher then silver1, and the less assists are used, the higher you can get, and i will bet the better the lobbies get and the cleaner the racing which in result turns into more fun and more usage of ranked lobbies.

Now so called skill rank means ZERO, nothing, it’s hollow and people have no incentive to want to get to highest level, because let’s be honest, someone who’s highest level who uses all assists, hasn’t got the same skill as someone who uses less assists or no assists. The less assists you use, the higher your SKILL level. Not saying who’s faster of better, but the one investing time to get better and used to no assists should be rewarded to be able to climb higher on the ladder, as for now It means absolutely nothing when you reach that level because everyone can get there. Fine by me, but then don’t call it SKILL level. Skill should reflect actual skill based on assists. Nothing else. 
 

and i will bet the lobbies on the higher levels will be cleaner, more fun and FAIR! 

Ranked for me should the most structured event in multiplayer, with or without assists. It should be something the players strive for and get better for it.

So, that being said they should really define how the races would run, and really enforce cleanliness in races, because there is so much grief that its just not fun. Unfortunately, thats bad in many racing games which uses a ranked system similar to this one.

I race in a private league and its a really great experience, even with hybrid assists. Racecraft is really something for the willing.

 

 

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When I first started properly league racing back on the 2013 game if you wanted to compete you literally had to turn the assists off because assists were patently slower(it might of been some sort of weight penalty) assists had less straight line speed and the car just felt heavier,so that was a big incentive for people to turn assists off,but ever since that time there hasn’t been that incentive because people can be just as quick if not quicker with assists on,that should just never be the case! So it’s on codies to restore the correct balance but we all know they won’t.

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1 hour ago, Hichel18 said:

Ranked for me should the most structured event in multiplayer, with or without assists. It should be something the players strive for and get better for it.

So, that being said they should really define how the races would run, and really enforce cleanliness in races, because there is so much grief that its just not fun. Unfortunately, thats bad in many racing games which uses a ranked system similar to this one.

I race in a private league and its a really great experience, even with hybrid assists. Racecraft is really something for the willing.

 

 

Like I said, link assists to that skill level, which incentifies people to put in the effort needed to get higher. 
 

Make the higher skill levels have actual meaning. Now they’re just empty vessels which have zero reflectation of the actual skill people have.

It just doesn’t reward the right people who put in the time and effort but for them it’s pretty impossible to get higher because (almost) all the “masters” use assists and exploit them to the fullest, and even with a “S” safety rating they know exactly that if they use the PIT manouvre to take you out, it doesn’t hurt their safety rating at all. Just keep a look out at the so called “masters” with a S rating, you’ll see what I mean😉

Using assists should always block you to get higher up the skill ladder. 
 

In FPS is an ELO rating, the better the player -> more skilled, the higher his ELO rating. Then the skill based matchmaking puts people of the same ELO together. 
 

and yes the highest level should be exclusive, it should be rewarding to achieve that by using no assists, and should be an exclusive lobby where only the people on the same level should be able to be matchmade. 
 

has nothing to do with elitist behaviour, or whatever. Every game online has those lobbies. It should be a reward for people who are willing to invest their time to get better, and an incentive for people to get better without assists to get to the highest level. 
 

now the highest skill level doesn’t feel rewarding because everyone can get it who can push a button. 
 


 

 

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