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Thrustmaster - Force Feedback - FFB fading across a session


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25 minutes ago, RLLL said:

Happened today, happens every time I play. Developers only making a breakthrough with this issue now, almost 3 months after release. The bug was originally reported in the BETA 4 months ago. Will we get some sort of credit or refund for being sold an unusable product? How can an A+ racing game not support wheels made by one of the biggest sim equipment companies out there? 

As Barry pointed out above
 

On 9/14/2021 at 12:51 PM, BarryBL said:

We have had some challenges in replicating as some Thrustmaster users were experiencing this internally, and some were not

I have a Thrustmaster T300RSGT on PC using the Rally Sparco rim, with fully updated firmware. No fan mods or anything else. Running on a fully updated version of Windows 10, with all device drivers up to date. I have not personally had any force feedback issues in F1 2021. I do 100% races, and spend a lot of time practicing for my next race in time trial mode. The force feedback has been rock solid for me. This is what Barry is referencing when he says the have had challanges replicating this, because everyones setups have different quirks. Even on consoles.

This is the sort of reason why these things take time to diagnose and fix, because some people will experience the bug, others will not. They have to make sure that whatever they change fixes the bug, while not creating a new one somewhere else.

So would you prefer they rush a fix out that then may or may not solve your issue or create new ones?
Or would you prefer they take their time, work with Thrustmaster, and get the fix right first time?

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Bruh the game is 3 months old and this problem was happening in the first BETA version. It's not rushing out a fix is it, it's taking a long time to fix something that should of been fully tested before release. 

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15 hours ago, RLLL said:

Bruh the game is 3 months old and this problem was happening in the first BETA version. It's not rushing out a fix is it, it's taking a long time to fix something that should of been fully tested before release. 

But the fact it isn't possible to easily replicate makes the fix difficult. What part do you not understand? It's not like the devs thought "Oh I know, let's stuff the FFB for a percentage of the Thrustmaster users because it will be fun." Obviously the devs weren't aware of the issue during development and it wasn't until beta that the problem became apparent. 

CM are working with Thrustmaster to solve the issue, which indicates the cause (and therefore fix) is not necessarily on one side.

It was worse in beta, so maybe the initial fix wasn't such a good fix.

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2 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

But the fact it isn't possible to easily replicate makes the fix difficult. What part do you not understand? It's not like the devs thought "Oh I know, let's stuff the FFB for a percentage of the Thrustmaster users because it will be fun." Obviously the devs weren't aware of the issue during development and it wasn't until beta that the problem became apparent. 

CM are working with Thrustmaster to solve the issue, which indicates the cause (and therefore fix) is not necessarily on one side.

It was worse in beta, so maybe the initial fix wasn't such a good fix.

Its very easy to replicate, I know so many folk who have this issue. This is just TM I'm on about as well, what about fanatec wheels thinking they are key boards and logitec wheels taking over control of the car by themselves. Come on man.

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6 minutes ago, RLLL said:

Its very easy to replicate, I know so many folk who have this issue. This is just TM I'm on about as well, what about fanatec wheels thinking they are key boards and logitec wheels taking over control of the car by themselves. Come on man.

I won't descend to your level. It's fair enough to say that I've had few (but annoying and inexplicable issues) others who have updated their equipment with firmware and drivers are also experiencing either no FFB or more frequent failures. Those that don't update, well good luck because all you do is cloud the issue by getting errors related to the lack of updates. And once again, for the record, Thrustmaster do not issue firmware or drivers for no reason. It is to add functionality, improve compatibility and fix known issues. Otherwise they would not.

I've documented what I can replicate. I don't know what else to say. 

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3 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

I won't descend to your level. It's fair enough to say that I've had few (but annoying and inexplicable issues) others who have updated their equipment with firmware and drivers are also experiencing either no FFB or more frequent failures. Those that don't update, well good luck because all you do is cloud the issue by getting errors related to the lack of updates. And once again, for the record, Thrustmaster do not issue firmware or drivers for no reason. It is to add functionality, improve compatibility and fix known issues. Otherwise they would not.

I've documented what I can replicate. I don't know what else to say. 

My wheels firmware is fully up to date, plugged directly into the console. No issues with the wheel itself, it will run 4/5 hours on Assetto with no issue. After 45 mins of use on F1 it cuts outs. If you do an 18min quali and 50% race the wheel will 100% cut out around the halfway point of the race every time. If CM need pointers to help replicate the issue, there you go.

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15 minutes ago, RLLL said:

My wheels firmware is fully up to date, plugged directly into the console. No issues with the wheel itself, it will run 4/5 hours on Assetto with no issue. After 45 mins of use on F1 it cuts outs. If you do an 18min quali and 50% race the wheel will 100% cut out around the halfway point of the race every time. If CM need pointers to help replicate the issue, there you go.

If it's replicable, it's a contribution. We can all accept that complaining and ranting about the situation won't change it any faster. Nobody is happy or complacent.

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5 hours ago, RLLL said:

My wheels firmware is fully up to date, plugged directly into the console. No issues with the wheel itself, it will run 4/5 hours on Assetto with no issue. After 45 mins of use on F1 it cuts outs. If you do an 18min quali and 50% race the wheel will 100% cut out around the halfway point of the race every time. If CM need pointers to help replicate the issue, there you go.

I'd be fuming in your position too. However, whilst the issue is easy to replicate for you it doesn't mean it will be for others with the same equipment. You didn't mention which console you're using but certainly on PS5 there is an issue like you describe which affects some players but not others with the same kit.

Edit: I believe Barry has posted noting variability like this found amongst Codemasters staff.

Edited by Ultra3142
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The fact that this issue exists for some poeple since release is horrible and not even acceptable. 

As I was thinking to upgrade to a Fanatec wheel for a time I decided to do it now.

I guess CM would pay my bill in case of forcing me to take this step by being unable to fix the issues on TM wheels? 😉

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On 9/19/2021 at 9:48 AM, RLLL said:

Happened today, happens every time I play. Developers only making a breakthrough with this issue now, almost 3 months after release. The bug was originally reported in the BETA 4 months ago. Will we get some sort of credit or refund for being sold an unusable product? How can an A+ racing game not support wheels made by one of the biggest sim equipment companies out there? 

Agreed 100%. They sold us a broken product and lied about hardware compatibility. Who wants to file a class action suit? Please DM if interested.

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On 9/21/2021 at 1:17 PM, partofkxv said:

The fact that this issue exists for some poeple since release is horrible and not even acceptable. 

As I was thinking to upgrade to a Fanatec wheel for a time I decided to do it now.

I guess CM would pay my bill in case of forcing me to take this step by being unable to fix the issues on TM wheels? 😉

There are issues for some on Fanatec too.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/16/2021 at 6:58 PM, JoeDiBOla said:

A detailed description of the issue. FFB LOSS AND WHEEL TURN LEFT BY DEFAULT
Report Code
Platform? PS5
Game-mode? PS4
[ONLINE] The amount of players in your session? If you know the players forum username, please tag as many people who were in your session here. -
[ONLINE] Were you the host? -
[PC ONLY] Please post your DXDiag, including the make and model of motherboard.
What troubleshooting have you tried? Please list everything you tried. UPDATED FIRMWARE AND GAME TO THE LATEST UPDATES. (UP AUGUST, 16)
Any screenshots or video of the issue? Remember to add as unlisted if video via a third party. 
How do you make the problem happen? Please add a step-by-step guide here so we can replicate and get reported as quick as possible. TRY SINGLE RACE, PICK UP THE WHEEL AND INMEDIATLY TURN LEFT BY DEFAULT. THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN PS5 VERSION OF THE GAME. THE PS4 VERSION HAS NO PROBLEMS.

Hi. It´s October the 9th. We will probably have an update with a brand new Red Bull in white. But we still have a serious problem with the FFB since day one... It's really disappointing.. The thing is that the PS4 Version still runs the wheel BETTER than the PS5. What a disaster...

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6 hours ago, JoeDiBOla said:

Hi. It´s October the 9th. We will probably have an update with a brand new Red Bull in white. But we still have a serious problem with the FFB since day one... It's really disappointing.. The thing is that the PS4 Version still runs the wheel BETTER than the PS5. What a disaster...

Force feed back fading is usually caused by the motor working overtime as it is receiving masses of in put signals and therefore overheats , you can counter this by selecting fan permanently on in the TM wheel menu and turning down your overall FFB setting in the in game settings ; but the MAIN thing that will help fight FFB fade is modifying your wheel base by adding an external cooling fan and modifying the wheelbase casing to accept it so that the motor receives plenty of fresh cool air to keep it operating at a reasonable temperature , I have a T300RS and I like to use  high levels of FFB and used to have problems in many driving games with FFB fade until I modified the wheelbase so that the motor received more cooling air. I now have zero FFB fade in any driving game.

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4 hours ago, Exasperated said:

Force feed back fading is usually caused by the motor working overtime as it is receiving masses of in put signals and therefore overheats , you can counter this by selecting fan permanently on in the TM wheel menu and turning down your overall FFB setting in the in game settings ; but the MAIN thing that will help fight FFB fade is modifying your wheel base by adding an external cooling fan and modifying the wheelbase casing to accept it so that the motor receives plenty of fresh cool air to keep it operating at a reasonable temperature , I have a T300RS and I like to use  high levels of FFB and used to have problems in many driving games with FFB fade until I modified the wheelbase so that the motor received more cooling air. I now have zero FFB fade in any driving game.

Useful advice generally but the FFB is still lost completely for some users. Fade is likely to occur on older T300s that haven't been firmware updated (and / or run without the perma fan).

There is an underlying game issue that's proving hard to replicate. I've had total failure in this game and in beta (and I never fail to update and I use a TS-PC that doesn't even hardly ever use the fan, it's on after starting the wheelbase but soon goes off and doesn't ever come back on).

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1 hour ago, steviejay69 said:

Useful advice generally but the FFB is still lost completely for some users. Fade is likely to occur on older T300s that haven't been firmware updated (and / or run without the perma fan).

There is an underlying game issue that's proving hard to replicate. I've had total failure in this game and in beta (and I never fail to update and I use a TS-PC that doesn't even hardly ever use the fan, it's on after starting the wheelbase but soon goes off and doesn't ever come back on).

Seems like you have iI covered.  I haven't experienced this as I don't use the TS-PC , as you have actual experience of the problem you have more knowledge than I about  it  of course ; which from your description sounds like the FFB signal from the game may not be present at certain points while playing other than it  fading at the wheel that I have heard described by some as the FFB (while still being present) feeling 'soapy' which strangely does describe the feeling that I get when I personally have experienced FFB fading. Heres hoping the problem whatever it is can be found and help those that are affected . Regards. Exasperated

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19 hours ago, Exasperated said:

Force feed back fading is usually caused by the motor working overtime as it is receiving masses of in put signals and therefore overheats , you can counter this by selecting fan permanently on in the TM wheel menu and turning down your overall FFB setting in the in game settings ; but the MAIN thing that will help fight FFB fade is modifying your wheel base by adding an external cooling fan and modifying the wheelbase casing to accept it so that the motor receives plenty of fresh cool air to keep it operating at a reasonable temperature , I have a T300RS and I like to use  high levels of FFB and used to have problems in many driving games with FFB fade until I modified the wheelbase so that the motor received more cooling air. I now have zero FFB fade in any driving game.

Hi. Thank you for the advise. The thing is that my FFB settings (not too much FFB strengh) are the same in both games (ps4 and ps5 version). And i have no issues with the ps4 version. The Ps5 versión has a big FFB loss and a massive problem with the direction of the wheel. It turns right by default (tried everything, rescan the wheel, disconecting the gamepad,…). But no solution anyway. After 4 months since the release of the game, seems to be a software problem. Not hardware. I dont know. Its really frustrating..

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4 hours ago, JoeDiBOla said:

Hi. Thank you for the advise. The thing is that my FFB settings (not too much FFB strengh) are the same in both games (ps4 and ps5 version). And i have no issues with the ps4 version. The Ps5 versión has a big FFB loss and a massive problem with the direction of the wheel. It turns right by default (tried everything, rescan the wheel, disconecting the gamepad,…). But no solution anyway. After 4 months since the release of the game, seems to be a software problem. Not hardware. I dont know. Its really frustrating..

Yes from what you describe its a fault with the software or the way the PS5 is out putting information from it  perhaps  because the game is optimised for use on the PS4 version and the ported Version to PS5 is creating a problem , I'm just guessing but obviously something isn't working as it should from software to hard ware on the PS5. That's usually the case with ' NEW IMPROVED ' until it actually does become improved . As long as you have PS4 and it works fine on that then at least you are sorted .......like they say 'Old but Gold '. Happy Racing . Regards Exasperated.

Edited by Exasperated
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short update after imola patch - game is still not playable, for wheelusers its more worse...apart from the connection errors, it is not playable online...gear switching operations are delayed and so is the steering....embarresing lads

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Can confirm that this is still happening. Friend lost his ffb during a race last night. This is ridiculous. Beta been going since what, May/June, and its been an issue since then? This is ruining the experience of probably half of your wheel users. I don't understand how something that worked perfectly in 2020 is so broken in 2021. Did a dev leave or something? We usually run 18m quali and 50% race, which requires 2 wheel restarts to complete one race! Absolutely unheard of. This and AI cooldown have to be priorities for the next patch. At this rate I'll be amazed if it's playable before the irl season ends... 

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On PC certainly if people ALT-TAB out of the game, then it hurts some games certainly. Haven't really had an answer about whether the Fullscreen exclusive mode is FSEnhancements compliant from CM.

I've certainly noticed on mine that I can run this game in FS exclusive whereas F1 2020 I ran it in (mainly) Fullscreen Windowed and F1 2019 prior to that as overlays worked more reliably. I have revisited F1 2020 and it runs Fullscreen exclusive just fine but as everything else (Windows, AMD drivers, software with overlays; Afterburner, Discord, Steam, Radeon ReLive, etc.) is shifting sand, so who knows where and what changed.

I still tend to ALT-ENTER before I ALT-TAB and I don't get the issues. Can't speak for Nvidia users as I had more EGO Dumper issues with the GTX970 and GTX1060 I've used on these games but was now some time ago. Don't really trust their driver development, think they've really tried to tweak things on Turing/Ampere for performance since AMD started to come on stronger with RX5xxx and RX6xxx products. Maybe others are suffering as a result, it seems to me a lot of issues are on RTX2xxx and GTX16xx but GTX10xx aren't out of the woods but seem generally more reliable.

How this all shakes out for consoles IDK, but it seems PS5 is not working at all well, PS4 seems more reliable but hardly issue free. XB seems to be being marginalised in the user base but looks like it's XB1X that seems to have crashes but XBL as a platform has issues. Just my take / opinion but only based on what I see here, not through benefit of use.

 

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Hello my FBB dont working 
 

  1.  Platform - Steam PC 
  2.  Wheel Used Thrustmaster TMX
  3.  Game-modes  playing all game moods 
  4.  Details on when the fade happened? For example - All tam in all modes when i start game FBB not working
  5.  Firmware and Drivers version. The Firmware and Drivers are up to date
  6.  Does this happen in every session regardless, - YES this is my problem can you help me ? 
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