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Thrustmaster - Force Feedback - FFB fading across a session


BarryBL
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We’re aware that some of you with Thrustmaster wheels have been experiencing issues with force feedback, including fading as you play, within F1 2021. We’ve been investigating this issue with Thrustmaster and can announce that a firmware update will be coming from them later this month. Players will need to install this update to resolve the issue.

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On 12/17/2021 at 12:19 PM, BarryBL said:

We’re aware that some of you with Thrustmaster wheels have been experiencing issues with force feedback, including fading as you play, within F1 2021. We’ve been investigating this issue with Thrustmaster and can announce that a firmware update will be coming from them later this month. Players will need to install this update to resolve the issue.

Does this include all platforms or just PC?

(For example: I play on XB1, but trough PC I install this update to my wheel via the Thrustmaster wheel software.)

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1 hour ago, Kislesko0317 said:

Does this include all platforms or just PC?

(For example: I play on XB1, but trough PC I install this update to my wheel via the Thrustmaster wheel software.)

all platforms, you will need to update the wheel firmware even if you are on a console so you will need to downlaod the driver package on a pc/laptop and update the firmware as per your wheel bases instructions found here https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/cat-wheels-en/ 
 

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https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/product/ferrarisf1000addon-en/

new driver is released @steviejay69 firmware is only needed to be updated on t300, tmx & t248 wheelbases, ferrari rim doesnt need firmware update either 

http://ts.thrustmaster.com/download/pub/webupdate/T500RS/Package_2021_TTRS_4_Release-Notes.txt

Edited by cearp8858
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a new setting called BOOST is now present for all pc users in the driver

overall the feel that i mentioned had been lost is now back so i guess whatever they changed from driver 1 to driver 2 reduced overall strength .

had to reduce damper from 30 in game to 1 so the wheel wight isnt too strong 

Capture.PNG.d6a6bd125dbf0bfba3705c60a28136b4.PNG

Edited by cearp8858
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On 12/20/2021 at 2:04 PM, cearp8858 said:

a new setting called BOOST is now present for all pc users in the driver

overall the feel that i mentioned had been lost is now back so i guess whatever they changed from driver 1 to driver 2 reduced overall strength .

had to reduce damper from 30 in game to 1 so the wheel wight isnt too strong 

Capture.PNG.d6a6bd125dbf0bfba3705c60a28136b4.PNG

Have you found a way to fine tune the boost or is it just to adjust Constant and Spring values? (I see you adjusted in-game)

There was no firmware update for TS-PC and TTRS_4 with Boost OFF pretty much felt like TTRS_3, however with it ON the in-game FFB level step change is very large.

I have tried some other racing software as I had become disillusioned with the F1 game. I shall measure any impact in those as well with Boost ON and OFF.

Be interesting to see if T300 users complain of fade because I bet it will kick in now if the FFB boost is as strong there.

There will still be those that miss the firmware updates because you need to check it - the driver does not prompt, you need to run the updater. Those on console should also use the new firmware where available as a few have been updated. 

Quote

T248 (both SKUs) v.2.00, T300 v.34.00, TMX v.17.00, TX v58.00

All other wheelbases were same firmware in 2021_TTRS_3 but there will be others who have not updated to even those.

Edited by steviejay69
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1 hour ago, steviejay69 said:

Have you found a way to fine tune the boost or is it just to adjust Constant and Spring values? (I see you adjusted in-game)

There was no firmware update for TS-PC and TTRS_4 with Boost OFF pretty much felt like TTRS_3, however with it ON the in-game FFB level step change is very large.

I have tried some other racing software as I had become disillusioned with the F1 game. I shall measure any impact in those as well with Boost ON and OFF.

Be interesting to see if T300 users complain of fade because I bet it will kick in now if the FFB boost is as strong there.

There will still be those that miss the firmware updates because you need to check it - the driver does not prompt, you need to run the updater. Those on console should also use the new firmware where available as a few have been updated. 

All other wheelbases were same firmware in 2021_TTRS_3 but there will be others who have not updated to even those.

no way to tune the boost so i assume it's a pre determined value or percentage above whatever is set at driver level and to be honest i am not sure if i can even tell teh differance with it on or off 

in game i set the ffb to default profiles and then reduced overall to 55 and damper to 1% which is still stronger than what i would normally use so i think i will end up dropping overall another 5 clicks i think.

the ffb does feel a lot better now better than what i remember from beta and initial release of game, also its also helped in other titles like iracing cos FFB overall in every game got weaker with package 2 driver.

i have seen some people complain of fade but this is probably because they do not use forced cooling mode or they are pushing the ffb with high value for extended periods but in the 3 or 4 hours i spent last night in F1 and iracing i had 0 issues at all 

i must admit like you i hadn't touched f1 2021 for quite a while (played for 1 month and then stopped until end of november) mainly because of the new tracks not being here and felt it was pointless to really drive it until the game had all tracks and can race a career mode as intended and for the handling model change (which was a lazy way to fix things but it is what it is) but overall the ffb is now much much better 

Edited by cearp8858
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Unfortunately and with some disappointment I have to say that although the FFB strength is now improved there are still issues. I have installed the new drivers and FW and the initial FFB strength improvement was noticeable and the wheel had a good level of resistance and feel of weight, quite comparable to F1 2020. Boost must be enabled to have a "proper" feedback and I played with different settings from 75/90 to 90/125 (driver / in-game) to test and especially the last is quite strong. However later both in time trial and multiplayer I experienced a big FFB drop as well as fading through the session and inside a lap:

- on both tracks - Bahrain and Spa - initially the FFB is there however there is an extreme drop in feedback especially by the end of the lap

- at Spa FFB drops noticeably in Pouhon (turn 10 / 11) where the wheel starts to loose resistance and this degrades further until the end the lap and Blanchimont (turn 17) feels competely loose and without any resistance. Over the line it seems to partially reset or something as there is again noticeable FFB (although to my feeling lower then when at the start at the session) in turn 1 and Eau Rouge (turn 2) where there is some degree of resistance and then the same story repeats during the track as described before

- it is the same issue in time trial and multiplayer at Spa

- at Bahrain (time trial) it is the same story, FFB starts dropping after turn 10 and then turns 11, 12, 13 are completely loose and by turn 14 I can hardly feel any resistance on the wheel

Can somebody please explain if Thrustmaster is the only affected wheel with these issues or are there similar issues with Logitech, Fanatec as well? Would be also good to understand what is the difference in comparison with F1 2020 which had solid FFB and why FFB in F1 2021 is such a complex issue?

Unfortunately this game still seems only semi-playable to me, currently no chance to be confidently competitive and find limits lacking reliable feedback.

 

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24 minutes ago, RoXoN225 said:

Unfortunately and with some disappointment I have to say that although the FFB strength is now improved there are still issues. I have installed the new drivers and FW and the initial FFB strength improvement was noticeable and the wheel had a good level of resistance and feel of weight, quite comparable to F1 2020. Boost must be enabled to have a "proper" feedback and I played with different settings from 75/90 to 90/125 (driver / in-game) to test and especially the last is quite strong. However later both in time trial and multiplayer I experienced a big FFB drop as well as fading through the session and inside a lap:

- on both tracks - Bahrain and Spa - initially the FFB is there however there is an extreme drop in feedback especially by the end of the lap

- at Spa FFB drops noticeably in Pouhon (turn 10 / 11) where the wheel starts to loose resistance and this degrades further until the end the lap and Blanchimont (turn 17) feels competely loose and without any resistance. Over the line it seems to partially reset or something as there is again noticeable FFB (although to my feeling lower then when at the start at the session) in turn 1 and Eau Rouge (turn 2) where there is some degree of resistance and then the same story repeats during the track as described before

- it is the same issue in time trial and multiplayer at Spa

- at Bahrain (time trial) it is the same story, FFB starts dropping after turn 10 and then turns 11, 12, 13 are completely loose and by turn 14 I can hardly feel any resistance on the wheel

Can somebody please explain if Thrustmaster is the only affected wheel with these issues or are there similar issues with Logitech, Fanatec as well? Would be also good to understand what is the difference in comparison with F1 2020 which had solid FFB and why FFB in F1 2021 is such a complex issue?

Unfortunately this game still seems only semi-playable to me, currently no chance to be confidently competitive and find limits lacking reliable feedback.

 

I think your using to much force and the ffb fade is from overheating

 

1- if you havent enable forced cooling mode which will make the gam run at all times, check thrustmaster support with instructions to enable

 

2- set all driver gain levels to defaults should be 75, 100,100,100,100 with on for the boost, the in game values are a percentage of these numbers so if in game is set to 60 overall strength it will be 60% of the 75% of the driver setting. Setting overall strength above 75 in game will cause clipping which muddies the ffb signals you feel through the wheelbase 

 

3-try and use the default values the game suggests and turn down damper which is wheel weight and also overall force 

 

default for my TX wheel in game is

 

60 overall

40 on track

40 kerbs

30 off track

30 damper

Main differance between 2020 & 2021 is 2021 uses the new thrustmaster api for use with the sf1000 rim so the way the wheel and hame work together is different 

Edited by cearp8858
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Many thanks for the input cearp8858. I can retry with these settings in the coming days however I have been checking the wheelbase during play for fan noise and / or heat but currently noticed neither during play. The wheel base barely got warm and fans did not turn on at all (but maybe did not notice initially due to headphones) - do the fans not turn on when overheating and does the wheel just drop all FFB levels as a safety feature? Thanks again.

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5 minutes ago, RoXoN225 said:

Many thanks for the input cearp8858. I can retry with these settings in the coming days however I have been checking the wheelbase during play for fan noise and / or heat but currently noticed neither during play. The wheel base barely got warm and fans did not turn on at all (but maybe did not notice initially due to headphones) - do the fans not turn on when overheating and does the wheel just drop all FFB levels as a safety feature? Thanks again.

Fan should come on when the motor gets hot not the base itself and the ffb will become weaker and fade, running the fan on forced mode would be wise in either case as it gives the most stable experience and you can then at least rule out overheating as the problem 

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Thanks again - as mentioned no extensive fan activity during F1 2021 noticed for now, base was slightly warm. Will give it a try as mentioned with the settings and forced fan mode to exclude overheating. As a side note I have clocked 446 hrs on F1 2020 with fans turning on in some longer races (running 90% FFB overall in driver / 90 in-game) and app. 3hr sessions however no FFB drops or fading at any time in the game and stable experience throughout. 

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14 hours ago, francyx1 said:

I have detected ffb problems too, despite the update, during Singapore and Melbourne Gran Prix (today I have tested only this play-mode) using the TMX Pro on Xbox Series X (the problem that was there before the update, recurs)... should I open a new report?

Did you update the TMX Firmware? It should be v17.00

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Yes, i've downloaded and installed the new driver on PC and then I've updated the TMX Firmware to v.17.00... now I'm testing the wheel in Chinese Gran Prix and the problem occurs repetely (I've tried ffb at 100, 85, 90, 95 but the problem occurs in any way). I'm not using other racing games, so I don't know what the problem is (and if the problem occurs only to my TMX or to the others too)... my F1 2021 copy is a digital one: I don't know if it can affect in any way

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6 minutes ago, francyx1 said:

Yes, i've downloaded and installed the new driver on PC and then I've updated the TMX Firmware to v.17.00... now I'm testing the wheel in Chinese Gran Prix and the problem occurs repetely (I've tried ffb at 100, 85, 90, 95 but the problem occurs in any way). I'm not using other racing games, so I don't know what the problem is (and if the problem occurs only to my TMX or to the others too)... my F1 2021 copy is a digital one: I don't know if it can affect in any way

Have you got any other USB devices connected and can you try another USB port? Restart the console and do not use snooze mode.

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In the other back USB port I've connected the controller (I use it to connect my headphones)... I will try to swap the USB port and restart the console (I'm using snooze mode, so I'll try turning off completely the xbox) and I'll give you a feedback. Thanks a lot 🙂

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1 minute ago, francyx1 said:

In the other back USB port I've connected the controller (I use it to connect my headphones)... I will try to swap the USB port and restart the console (I'm using snooze mode, so I'll try turning off completely the xbox) and I'll give you a feedback. Thanks a lot 🙂

Especially if the headset sender is RF it can cause issues. Try it "out" and try it in the front port with the wheel in the rear.

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16 hours ago, RoXoN225 said:

Unfortunately and with some disappointment I have to say that although the FFB strength is now improved there are still issues. I have installed the new drivers and FW and the initial FFB strength improvement was noticeable and the wheel had a good level of resistance and feel of weight, quite comparable to F1 2020. Boost must be enabled to have a "proper" feedback and I played with different settings from 75/90 to 90/125 (driver / in-game) to test and especially the last is quite strong. However later both in time trial and multiplayer I experienced a big FFB drop as well as fading through the session and inside a lap:

- on both tracks - Bahrain and Spa - initially the FFB is there however there is an extreme drop in feedback especially by the end of the lap

- at Spa FFB drops noticeably in Pouhon (turn 10 / 11) where the wheel starts to loose resistance and this degrades further until the end the lap and Blanchimont (turn 17) feels competely loose and without any resistance. Over the line it seems to partially reset or something as there is again noticeable FFB (although to my feeling lower then when at the start at the session) in turn 1 and Eau Rouge (turn 2) where there is some degree of resistance and then the same story repeats during the track as described before

- it is the same issue in time trial and multiplayer at Spa

- at Bahrain (time trial) it is the same story, FFB starts dropping after turn 10 and then turns 11, 12, 13 are completely loose and by turn 14 I can hardly feel any resistance on the wheel

Can somebody please explain if Thrustmaster is the only affected wheel with these issues or are there similar issues with Logitech, Fanatec as well? Would be also good to understand what is the difference in comparison with F1 2020 which had solid FFB and why FFB in F1 2021 is such a complex issue?

Unfortunately this game still seems only semi-playable to me, currently no chance to be confidently competitive and find limits lacking reliable feedback.

 

It seems to me it's just a crude lifting of the levels in the driver and nothing more, I didn't get new firmware for the TS-PC. I feel from the notes that the T300 firmware is unrelated to F1 game issues.

Tested with F1 2020. Feels quite 'wrong' with my existing settings. Removal of Denuvo you can see the framerates are higher (perhaps too high was hitting 165 in Ultra on Bahrain)

Can't replicate *your* issues with *my* settings, but I'm closer to @cearp8858 with about 65 FFB in-game.

I feel a 'recalibration' coming along with F1 2021 with the Boost setting ON. 🙂

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27 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

It seems to me it's just a crude lifting of the levels in the driver and nothing more, I didn't get new firmware for the TS-PC. I feel from the notes that the T300 firmware is unrelated to F1 game issues.

Tested with F1 2020. Feels quite 'wrong' with my existing settings. Removal of Denuvo you can see the framerates are higher (perhaps too high was hitting 165 in Ultra on Bahrain)

Can't replicate *your* issues with *my* settings, but I'm closer to @cearp8858 with about 65 FFB in-game.

I feel a 'recalibration' coming along with F1 2021 with the Boost setting ON. 🙂

yeah i noticed ffb got weaker with package 2 and i noticed it in every game and sim i played and had to increase overall ffb to get the same strength , package 4 is stronger than what we had with package 1  which was good so i agree they lifted some minimum setting levels on various forces in the driver as all settings are the same as before, still not sure of the exact difference the boost has on or off but i did a career mode race at canada and ffb felt the same all the way through the race weekend  

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45 minutes ago, cearp8858 said:

yeah i noticed ffb got weaker with package 2 and i noticed it in every game and sim i played and had to increase overall ffb to get the same strength , package 4 is stronger than what we had with package 1  which was good so i agree they lifted some minimum setting levels on various forces in the driver as all settings are the same as before, still not sure of the exact difference the boost has on or off but i did a career mode race at canada and ffb felt the same all the way through the race weekend  

It's quite marked on the TS-PC between Boost ON and OFF.

I see the TS-PC and TS-XW as closer / successor to the T500 wheel. FFB is much stronger but less subtle, you can feel the gear teeth (although it is belt/tooth). T300 is less, but feels smoother as a result. I think the TX is more based on the revised T300 (the ones that don't overheat). I think also that pretty much all the T300RS are 'new' whereas the trad 2 pedal T300 is a mixture of older and new.

The 'new' T300 and the TX are quite the same I would think.

Can't really speak to the T-GT or T-GT II or T248 as I've not tried anything close.

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