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Thrustmaster - Force Feedback - FFB fading across a session


BarryBL
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personally i think most of the issues have been incorrect firmware/driver issues combined with overaly strong ffb settings in game on pc with issues being fixed with package 4

consoles are still broken because of wheelbase firmware which will be a thrustmaster issue i think which codies will have to work with tm to get fixed 

 

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13 hours ago, JohnnyTapia said:

As I said it only happens in f1. So I assume the problem is in the game and not with the wheel. No problem in any other racing game I play. Kindle asking for Support and a solution 

I would recommend running the T300 in 'forced fan' mode and the in-game FFB setting no higher than 75. Connection and rest advice.

Also the recommended DOR is 360 (flashes twice). The T-LCM pedals connected by RJ12 will flash the LED 10 times. PS5 mode is indicated by a RED LED flash when changing modes.

Good to see you are using a PC to update the firmware. 👍Not saying the Thrustmaster wheel 'interpretation' in the game is perfect, but many console users seem to think that because the FFB slider has a maximum setting, that that is where it should be set.

Do you have the same issues with the PS4 version of the game?

Edited by steviejay69
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On 2/6/2022 at 1:46 PM, steviejay69 said:

I would recommend running the T300 in 'forced fan' mode and the in-game FFB setting no higher than 75. Connection and rest advice.

Also the recommended DOR is 360 (flashes twice). The T-LCM pedals connected by RJ12 will flash the LED 10 times. PS5 mode is indicated by a RED LED flash when changing modes.

Good to see you are using a PC to update the firmware. 👍Not saying the Thrustmaster wheel 'interpretation' in the game is perfect, but many console users seem to think that because the FFB slider has a maximum setting, that that is where it should be set.

Do you have the same issues with the PS4 version of the game?

tried all of that and also but that doesnt fix the problem. again i want to reiterate that it works on other games!!!

i use my ffb with 75% as per the thrustmater settings and with 100 strength on f1. so its not like im using it to the limit...
and is also a common problem since release and it looks like it was never patched even though it was claimed to be several times...

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16 hours ago, JohnnyTapia said:

tried all of that and also but that doesnt fix the problem. again i want to reiterate that it works on other games!!!

i use my ffb with 75% as per the thrustmater settings and with 100 strength on f1. so its not like im using it to the limit...
and is also a common problem since release and it looks like it was never patched even though it was claimed to be several times...


You stated you are on PS5, so the settings inside the Thrustmaster cntrol panel have no bearing on how the wheel feels on the PS5. The settings in the Thrustmaster control panel only apply to PC. So you are running in F1 2021 at a full 100% of force feedback.
The only effect the Thrustmaster Control Panal has on your wheel when connected to a console, is the firmware version. And that is it.
 

On 2/2/2022 at 7:04 PM, JohnnyTapia said:

As I mentioned in my post above im on PS5 but i use the PC to keep the wheel up 2 date. Thats why I also attach the ffb settings from the thrustmaster settings.

My ffb is only fading in f1, on ps5 i also play gt sport and even after hours my ffb doesnt fade at all.... on pc i play ac and iracing and it is also not fading there!

1.JPG

2.jpg


Edit - Grabbed a pic of the T300 manual for you, and highlighted the part about the PC gain settings -

T300.thumb.png.cd11785af0ca5bb07c234d2d1f3aad31.png
 

Edited by Ialyrn
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8 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

So you are running in F1 2021 at a full 100% of force feedback.

As per the image you shared, I believe it's a setting of 100 our of 150 rather than 100% actually. Which is not to say it may not still be a bit high.

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17 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

As per the image you shared, I believe it's a setting of 100 our of 150 rather than 100% actually. Which is not to say it may not still be a bit high.

100% in game should equal 100% in the Thrustmaster control panal, since the games on console take the posistion of that control panal in setting up the force feedback forces. So anything higher than 100% should still be in the percentate range of 110%, 120% and so on.

On PC it is possible to have the control panal set to 75% overall forces (or lower), and run higher in game. Since the control panal is reducing the maximum allowed forces at the driver level in that case. Infact, on PC, the thrustmaster control panal limits the T300 to 75% by default anyway. Same goes for the Thrustmaster TX. @steviejay69 is that the same on the TS-PC racer as well???

Either way, 100% vibration and feedback strength in game is too high. The wheel will be clipping at that level, as well as putting excess stress on the motor. Even if there is an issue in the game that causes FFB fade more frequently than it should, having the wheel set so high will only exacerbate that issue.

I know from my own playtroughs in F1 2021, I have not had a problem with FFB fade on my T300 at all. But then I dont have the forces set anywhere near as high as users in this thread do. I also only do 100% races.

Even if it doesnt solve their problems completely, I do believe they should try lowering the feedback strength and go from there.

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3 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

100% in game should equal 100% in the Thrustmaster control panal, since the games on console take the posistion of that control panal in setting up the force feedback forces. So anything higher than 100% should still be in the percentate range of 110%, 120% and so on.

It's not a percentage scale in game, so I'd expect 150/150 to match 100%.

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1 hour ago, Ialyrn said:

On PC it is possible to have the control panal set to 75% overall forces (or lower), and run higher in game. Since the control panal is reducing the maximum allowed forces at the driver level in that case. Infact, on PC, the thrustmaster control panal limits the T300 to 75% by default anyway. Same goes for the Thrustmaster TX. @steviejay69 is that the same on the TS-PC racer as well???

Yes, it's the same. TS-PC and TS-XW are just revisions of the T500RS basically, they're more powerful than the T300 of which the TX is the XB equivalent.

T-GT<T-GT II

TS-PC/TS-XW>T500RS

T300/TX

T247/T248

TMX/T150 (Pro)

Anything less / not FFB / not wheel, maybe emulated controller

The hierarchy is a bit evolution / price point

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think the problems lie on the Thrustmaster side if I'm honest.

I've changed hardware at significant cost to attempt to troubleshoot issues (ironically to troubleshoot issues with Thrustmaster devices initially). 

So far I've changed wheel PSU, computer PSU and mainboard.

Only when I have downgraded the firmware (v.13>v.11 - rationale being I only updated above v.11 when I owned an SF-1000 - I'll be honest, I don't like it ergonomically compared to the older F1 Rim) of the wheelbase have (I think so far, currently from 'every' boot unsuccessful to 20+ successful) I resolved one issue only to find different symptoms. I have reverted to the older "known good" driver (in my instance 2020_TTRS_2) to load the firmware and am slowly working back up the driver ladder (currently on 2021_TTRS_1) but I'm not rushing it as I want to give each driver a chance to 'fail'.

It's just slow going because my enthusiasm to play the game is muted by the need to constantly test the game as regressively as possible by clearing my user settings, staying remote from Steam Cloud, etc. Frankly, the environment on PC is peppered by (firmware and) driver and OS (and dependency) updates, Steam client updates and game patches on a monthly basis. You're kind of guaranteed a minimum of two of these (OS and Steam client) and the bets are off as to how many of the others land (AMD have a slower cadence than Nvidia and anecdotally I would say it is Nvidia users with the most issues).

I've stayed on the AMD recommended driver path, reverted AGESA firmwares and finally now wheelbase firmwares, it is my belief that the only 'true' path is 'updated' so to do this is quite painful as it's clear that none of the items are properly tested - as with Windows, the users are the testers.

Despite my protestations, I have only really seen movement on this issue when I have been prepared to try to go back. But I know that the only way we can truly see the defects are if we are all on the same page (updated).

So, I'll plod along and when I have something significant I will be sure to let Thrustmaster or Codemasters know.

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i would suspect a new driver to be made available soon with firmwares as well seeing as we are near the end of q1 and thustamaster tend to release driver packages every 3months or so last driver was released in december.

i have a tx wheelbase and use the sf1000 rim and i never experianced the ffb not working in the retail version of the game the only issues i ever had was a weak feeling to ffb which got resovlved with package 4  the other issue being that the display would would stop receiving telemetry is i was driving for a long time period say over 3 hours but this i suspect to be a firmware issue for the rim/base more than a driver problem  


for me its same situation with lack of motivation to play the game i think the early issues that plagued it plus the issues with wheel support etc and also with the 3 missing tracks kind of ruined very quickly my motivation and excitment to play the gameand also freinds that i would race with always had issues trying to get their wheels to work or having to do work arounds to do 2pc. 

for f1 2022 i know there is a lot of handling model changes being done along with some other stuff we are not privy know yet to but codemasters need to hit the ground running with peripheral support from day 1 with none of the issues that we have had with f1 2021 especially for steering wheels 

Edited by cearp8858
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So the conclusion is to reduce the ffb to a level where it makes no fun to play and also have very limited information? Sorry but that's not enough! The game costs around 70 usd, the wheel costs about 300 usd if you stay with a basic configuration and actually a new game is going to be realised in around 4 months... so most likely there won't be a fix ever 

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2 hours ago, JohnnyTapia said:

So the conclusion is to reduce the ffb to a level where it makes no fun to play and also have very limited information? Sorry but that's not enough! The game costs around 70 usd, the wheel costs about 300 usd if you stay with a basic configuration and actually a new game is going to be realised in around 4 months... so most likely there won't be a fix ever 

If you haven't got F1 2017 get that , FFB is the strongest of any of the games and the car feels like its got tyres on it which is nice.

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10 hours ago, JohnnyTapia said:

So the conclusion is to reduce the ffb to a level where it makes no fun to play and also have very limited information? Sorry but that's not enough! The game costs around 70 usd, the wheel costs about 300 usd if you stay with a basic configuration and actually a new game is going to be realised in around 4 months... so most likely there won't be a fix ever 

it depends on your platform, pc i think on the whole is fixed because it uses a driver and firmware cobination 

on consoles its a firmware thing, there is possibly a driver being run buy the consoles os but the game itself is controlling everything from what the firmware is telling it.

personally i think this is going to be 80% a thrustmaster issue and 20% codies to add or make changes that thrustmaster needs 

usually FFB fading is related to a overheating motor with the wheelbase reducing power output to reduce heat and save itself and this usually happens when using high stregth for long periods of time hence why the genral advice is or was to turn down the overall ffb strength.

a lot of people like to whack up the ffb to 100% or 150% becuase it's "realisitic" but really they are making things worse becasue they would be constantly clipping  (think of this like a speaker after a certain level you get distortion and this is what clipping is like) so you dont even feel everything that is happening through the rim, if you want more weight then you have to increase the damper number as thats what makes the wheel heavier or lighter.

david greco who does the handling model for the f1 games has said in the past using anything over 70/75% would just induce clipping and has no benefit to run the overall strength past that as it just induces clipping 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/16/2022 at 3:27 PM, steviejay69 said:

I think the problems lie on the Thrustmaster side if I'm honest.

I've changed hardware at significant cost to attempt to troubleshoot issues (ironically to troubleshoot issues with Thrustmaster devices initially). 

So far I've changed wheel PSU, computer PSU and mainboard.

Only when I have downgraded the firmware (v.13>v.11 - rationale being I only updated above v.11 when I owned an SF-1000 - I'll be honest, I don't like it ergonomically compared to the older F1 Rim) of the wheelbase have (I think so far, currently from 'every' boot unsuccessful to 20+ successful) I resolved one issue only to find different symptoms. I have reverted to the older "known good" driver (in my instance 2020_TTRS_2) to load the firmware and am slowly working back up the driver ladder (currently on 2021_TTRS_1) but I'm not rushing it as I want to give each driver a chance to 'fail'.

It's just slow going because my enthusiasm to play the game is muted by the need to constantly test the game as regressively as possible by clearing my user settings, staying remote from Steam Cloud, etc. Frankly, the environment on PC is peppered by (firmware and) driver and OS (and dependency) updates, Steam client updates and game patches on a monthly basis. You're kind of guaranteed a minimum of two of these (OS and Steam client) and the bets are off as to how many of the others land (AMD have a slower cadence than Nvidia and anecdotally I would say it is Nvidia users with the most issues).

I've stayed on the AMD recommended driver path, reverted AGESA firmwares and finally now wheelbase firmwares, it is my belief that the only 'true' path is 'updated' so to do this is quite painful as it's clear that none of the items are properly tested - as with Windows, the users are the testers.

Despite my protestations, I have only really seen movement on this issue when I have been prepared to try to go back. But I know that the only way we can truly see the defects are if we are all on the same page (updated).

So, I'll plod along and when I have something significant I will be sure to let Thrustmaster or Codemasters know.

There is definitely an issue with the firmware v13 (44 boots without detection issues on firmware v11. Error returns after 2 reboots after restoring firmware v13) with my combo.

I've reported to Thrustmaster. Been keeping a diary in a text file on the desktop (attached here).

 

TS-PC Racer.txt

Edited by steviejay69
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  • 2 weeks later...

It seems like a bad joke.

X-box series X, thrustmaster tmx + tlcm with updated firmwares, ffb (60) and I can't do a 50% run without the ffb shutting down. just to think that this game cost 1/3 of the minimum wage in my country, I feel like a sucker for having bought it.

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20 minutes ago, SAGABRP said:

It seems like a bad joke.

X-box series X, thrustmaster tmx + tlcm with updated firmwares, ffb (60) and I can't do a 50% run without the ffb shutting down. just to think that this game cost 1/3 of the minimum wage in my country, I feel like a sucker for having bought it.

I think ffb 40 ??? is the magic number for that wheel to  stop it  frying the motor.

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9 hours ago, Exasperated said:

I think ffb 40 ??? is the magic number for that wheel to  stop it  frying the motor.

today coming home from work i will test with 40, thanks for your reply. although I think 40 is too low. in 2020 I wore 120 with no problems.

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2 minutes ago, SAGABRP said:

today coming home from work i will test with 40, thanks for your reply. although I think 40 is too low. in 2020 I wore 120 with no problems.

The 40 setting was from a recent post that asked the same problem and I think that the situation was that the person was happy with that low setting , as at least he could have FFB on the wheel for full races. Hope it works , hope you can enjoy it. Regards Bingo.

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On 4/6/2022 at 1:25 PM, steviejay69 said:

There is definitely an issue with the firmware v13 (44 boots without detection issues on firmware v11. Error returns after 2 reboots after restoring firmware v13) with my combo.

I've reported to Thrustmaster. Been keeping a diary in a text file on the desktop (attached here).

Update: This issue occurs with me with firmware v12 and v13. It does not occur with firmware v11, so something changed.

Quote

PC - DRIVERS FORCE FEEDBACK [Package 2021_TTRS_4] + Firmware

System Requirement: Windows® 10 / 11

This driver package is compatible with these racing wheels:

- T-GT (on PC, the USB sliding switch on the T-GT racing wheel base must always be set to the OTHER position!) 
- TS-XW RACER 
- TS-PC RACER
- TX
- TMX 
- T500 
- T300 (on PC, the USB sliding switch on the T300 racing wheel base must always be set to the PC-PS3 position!)
- T248-PS
- T248-X
- T150 (on PC, the USB sliding switch on the T150 racing wheel base must always be set to the PS3 position!) 
- BT LED DISPLAY
- TM Sim Hub


Changes made in new driver version [2021_TTRS_4]: 

- Added T-BOOST function on PC (for all Thrustmaster Racing Wheels) 
* The T-BOOST function improves on PC your performance by offering a more accurate feeling of the road

- Fixed a force feedback issue (for all Thrustmaster Racing Wheels) with F1 2021 - PC

**NOTE**: Your wheel's Firmware version appears in the top right in the Control Panel's tabs:
- TS-PC Racer: V13 

**IMPORTANT**:
- IF A DRIVER PACKAGE FOR YOUR PRODUCT IS ALREADY INSTALLED ON THE COMPUTER, RUNNING THE PACKAGE INSTALLATION ONCE WILL ACTUALLY UNINSTALL THE PREVIOUS VERSION. 
  IT WILL THEN BE NECESSARY TO RUN IT AGAIN TO PROCEED TO THE INSTALLATION OF THE NEW VERSION
- DO NOT CONNECT the racing wheel to your PC before being prompted to do so.
- DO NOT CLICK in any Windows-specific panes that may appear during the update process.
- RESTART THE COMPUTER once the package setup is complete.

Create a folder for all your Thrustmaster downloads: right-click the Windows desktop, then point to New/Folder. 
- Name the folder Thrustmaster Downloads. 
- Click the download link. 
- A File Download dialog box appears. Click Save. 
- A Save As dialog box appears. Select the Thrustmaster Downloads folder you have created and then click Save. 

Installation: 
1- Double-click the installation file (2021_TTRS_4.exe) to proceed with the installation.
2- Follow the instructions displayed onscreen. 
3- When done, select Start/All Apps/Thrustmaster/FFB Racing Wheel/Control Panel. (Windows 10/8)
   The racing wheel appears onscreen with the status indication OK
4- In the Control Panel, click Properties to configure your racing wheel:
* Test Input: Enables you to test the buttons, the D-Pad, the Wheel, the Pedals and to configure wheel Rotation Angle.
* Test Forces: Enables you to test 12 force effects.
* Gain Settings: Enables you to configure the Force Feedback. 

Click on OK to save your settings and exit the Control Panel.

You are now ready to race!

Notes regarding the FERRARI F1 racing wheel: 
- On PC, the Ferrari F1 racing wheel is recognized and appears onscreen under the name Thrustmaster T-GT Racing Wheel or TS-XW RACER (USB) 
or TS-PC RACER or Thrustmaster T500 RS Racing Wheel, Thrustmaster TX Racing wheel, or Thrustmaster T300 RS Racing Wheel.
This is the "Normal Mode", offering 13 action buttons + D-Pad (in this mode, the D-Pads, shifters and L3/R3 buttons are combined). 
In this mode, the 2 rotary encoders emulate the D-Pad's 4 main directions. They can therefore be used to alter a car's settings (engines, tires, fairing, etc.). 
To use them, if required, access your game's Control options and alter them as required.
- On PC (only), the racing wheel can be configured in "Advanced Mode" to offer 25 action buttons + 1 D-Pad 
(in this mode, the 2 rotary encoders, 2 D-Pads, 4 shifters and 4 L3/R3 buttons are configured individually). To do so, in the Control Panel, select the Advanced Mode option. 
The racing wheel appears onscreen under the name Ferrari F1 Wheel Advanced T-GT or Ferrari F1 Wheel Advanced TS-XW Racer 
or Ferrari F1 Wheel Advanced TS-PC Racer or Ferrari F1 wheel Integral T500 or Ferrari F1 wheel Advanced TX or Ferrari F1 wheel Advanced T300. 

General comments: 
- For most games: in the OPTIONS/CONTROLS/FORCE FEEDBACK settings, Force Feedback effects must be set to "POSITIVE = + Values" or "NON-REVERSED".   

NB: Changes made in previous driver versions: 

[Package 2021_TTRS_3]
- Fixed an issue in Thrustmaster Firmware Updater software
[Package 2021_TTRS_2]
- Added new firmware for many Thrustmaster Force Feedback wheels.
- Fixed an issue with the automatic return to the center of the steering wheel in the Xbox Series X|S consoles menu
* TS-PC: new Firmware V13 
- Formula Wheel Add-On Ferrari SF1000 Edition screen protocol open for new NATIVE upcoming games !Important! Also requires to install new Firmware V5.51 on the Formula Wheel Add-On Ferrari SF1000 Edition
* Formula Wheel Add-On Ferrari SF1000 Edition: new Firmware V5.51  
- Improved display of some information in F1 2020 and F1 2021 in NATIVE mode (PC / PS4 / PS5)
- Screen protocol open for new NATIVE upcoming games
!Important! Also requires to install new Firmware on Thrustmaster Bases: [V33 for T300] - [V10 for T-GT] - [V13 for TS-PC] - [V58 for TX] - [V8 for TS-XW]

[2021_TTRS_1]
- Added new firmware for many Thrustmaster Force Feedback wheels.
* TS-PC: new Firmware V12 
- Added support for the Formula Wheel Add-On Ferrari SF1000 Edition
 

I have reduced the above text from the driver release notes to that which pertains to the TS-PC specifically. So it would appear that the issues to the FERRARI F1 racing wheel are caused by changes to the firmware and driver to pretty much support the Formula Wheel Add-On Ferrari SF1000 Edition.

I have tested the wheel with drivers 2021_TTRS_1, 2021_TTRS_2 and 2021_TTRS_4 and all work correctly with firmware v11. (Also older 2020_TTRS_2 where firmware v11 was introduced, all performed without issue with respect to this bug - I did not test 2021_TTRS_3 retrospectively as it has an issue with the firmware updater and as I wish to see the effect of different firmwares it does not seem sensible). Thrustmaster have said that I can use the ANY driver with ANY firmware, which I find puzzling as I can't really prove any lack of support for any of the TS-PC issues other than the one observed as I do not have a SF1000 Edition any longer (I prefer the Ferrari F1 racing wheel).

So, for me this issue is firmware related.

Edited by steviejay69
Thrustmaster ticket opened RQT-050975-2022
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