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Thottle vs Revs e.g. in Start


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Hi,

I have this issue, which I also had with F1 2020.

During the start, the revs go wild, even if you keep throttle in same position (>15%). This is especially bad in the starts, but also can be seen, if you drive keeping throttle at constant position, the revs just keep increasing. Should the throttle and revs have a linear correlation or some correlation? If not, is there a settings/a way to fix this?

I have tried adjusting the throttle linearity, but it 0, 50 or 100 doesn't alter the behavior.

Here is a short video demonstrating the issue: https://youtu.be/xPVHK9QUCQ4

Cheers.

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@BarryBL

Added the report here just in case.

  • A detailed description of the issue. The revs are uncontrollable during start + even on constant throttle driving straight the revs increase
  • Report Code
  • Platform? PC Win10, Thrustmaster TS PC/SF 1000 rim/T3PA Pro pedals
  • Game-mode? Any race mode
  • [PC ONLY] Please post your DXDiag, including the make and model of motherboard.
  • What troubleshooting have you tried? Please list everything you tried. Tried to change the Throttle Settings in controller settings.
  • Any screenshots or video of the issue? Remember to add as unlisted if video via a third party. https://youtu.be/xPVHK9QUCQ4
  • How do you make the problem happen? Please add a step-by-step guide here so we can replicate and get reported as quick as possible. At the race start it is pretty impossible to fully control the revs.
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Greetings,

I would say that first we need see that the start procedure is made by gameplay as it isnt totally faithful on what happens in F1 (double clutch and everything), but even with that, youre with the clutch on and applying power to the engine that isnt going anywhere until you release it and then it starts going through the wheels, which I think its the reason that it seems so far of relation of pedal and revs.

When the car bites the and traction goes, it becomes really noticeable the responde of pedal and wheels and it seems on par with how much we want to go. There is also the aspect of gear ration so revs and pedal cant be totally correlated otherwise only at full pedal you would be able to change gears when needed.

That being said, f1 are powerful cars and little acceleration makes the engine roar through the skies, so I think that it is by design. I remember reading one time in an article that pre race revs is reached on a fifth or quarter of pedal pressure on start, which is quite high revs but not really max. When im ready to start I dont notice losing control of revs but its not easy too to maintain.

Does other games the start works very differently?

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12 hours ago, Hichel18 said:

Greetings,

I would say that first we need see that the start procedure is made by gameplay as it isnt totally faithful on what happens in F1 (double clutch and everything), but even with that, youre with the clutch on and applying power to the engine that isnt going anywhere until you release it and then it starts going through the wheels, which I think its the reason that it seems so far of relation of pedal and revs.

When the car bites the and traction goes, it becomes really noticeable the responde of pedal and wheels and it seems on par with how much we want to go. There is also the aspect of gear ration so revs and pedal cant be totally correlated otherwise only at full pedal you would be able to change gears when needed.

That being said, f1 are powerful cars and little acceleration makes the engine roar through the skies, so I think that it is by design. I remember reading one time in an article that pre race revs is reached on a fifth or quarter of pedal pressure on start, which is quite high revs but not really max. When im ready to start I dont notice losing control of revs but its not easy too to maintain.

Does other games the start works very differently?

With the other games I play (AMS2 + PC2, AC & ACC), it is much easier to control the revs at start/get-away.

In ACC it is rolling start, but when getting the car moving the revs are easier to control. In AMS2/PC2/AC the throttle/revs behaves bit like in F1 2021 (or F1 2020), but it is more controllable (for e.g. Formula V10 or GTEs in AMS2).

The revs gain with constant throttle works similar way in those games, and after reading more I think that is the way the throttle maps these days work in race cars, ie. they optimize torque for the speed + revs with throttle position and I think that is what the sims are also doing/trying to do.

With F1 2021 (and F1 2020) at start there is the "maintain optimal RPM", which to me is just not possible to find/maintain. Might also be lack of practice or that I drive with shoes on, i.e. less fine grained control. If the revs gain at start would be less extreme, it would make it easier to control the RPMs at the start and maybe make better starts. I  still do good starts, only occasionally losing a position, but the starts/initial get-away always feel bit haphazard.

I do develop a Telemetry tool, so I have been looking at what I can add to my tool to make it easier to 1) analyze the starts and 2) practice the starts. I just wish the start/good start would be more repeatable.

Cheers

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18 minutes ago, LonelyRacer said:

With the other games I play (AMS2 + PC2, AC & ACC), it is much easier to control the revs at start/get-away.

In ACC it is rolling start, but when getting the car moving the revs are easier to control. In AMS2/PC2/AC the throttle/revs behaves bit like in F1 2021 (or F1 2020), but it is more controllable (for e.g. Formula V10 or GTEs in AMS2).

The revs gain with constant throttle works similar way in those games, and after reading more I think that is the way the throttle maps these days work in race cars, ie. they optimize torque for the speed + revs with throttle position and I think that is what the sims are also doing/trying to do.

With F1 2021 (and F1 2020) at start there is the "maintain optimal RPM", which to me is just not possible to find/maintain. Might also be lack of practice or that I drive with shoes on, i.e. less fine grained control. If the revs gain at start would be less extreme, it would make it easier to control the RPMs at the start and maybe make better starts. I  still do good starts, only occasionally losing a position, but the starts/initial get-away always feel bit haphazard.

I do develop a Telemetry tool, so I have been looking at what I can add to my tool to make it easier to 1) analyze the starts and 2) practice the starts. I just wish the start/good start would be more repeatable.

Cheers

That's really great! Is that the same one telemetry from the video? I do have to say it is a great job that one

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7 hours ago, Hichel18 said:

That's really great! Is that the same one telemetry from the video? I do have to say it is a great job that one

Yes, it is the same tool, you can find more info from the link in my signature and from RaceDepartment.

I have been developing this Tool for quite some time, actually first supported game was F1 2012.

Cheers

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On 7/22/2021 at 10:11 AM, LonelyRacer said:

Hi,

I have this issue, which I also had with F1 2020.

During the start, the revs go wild, even if you keep throttle in same position (>15%). This is especially bad in the starts, but also can be seen, if you drive keeping throttle at constant position, the revs just keep increasing. Should the throttle and revs have a linear correlation or some correlation? If not, is there a settings/a way to fix this?

I have tried adjusting the throttle linearity, but it 0, 50 or 100 doesn't alter the behavior.

Here is a short video demonstrating the issue: https://youtu.be/xPVHK9QUCQ4

Cheers.

I am having the same problem. At a start when I push on the accelerator either none of the lights are on at the top of the steering wheel or all of them are on. There doesn't seem to be a way to get anything in-between. As a result many of my starts either end up with veering off into other cars or a wall or getting hit from behind. Seeing your telemetry reflects exactly what I have been experiencing. 

...and thanks for your telemetry software - very helpful!

@BarryBL Any update on this? His use of the telemetry data is a good description of this problem.

Edited by dwin20
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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

@BarryBL@Hoo

Is this something, the devs are looking into?

It seems that with some wheels/pedal combination it is almost impossible to keep the revs in control at the start. I have understood, that with controllers it is simple, just put the throttle to certain position and it will keep the revs steady, but with pedals at least with Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer + T3PA-PRO's it doesn't work like that, as explained above (see the video). I tried different linearity etc, but nothing really helps.

Cheers.

Edited by LonelyRacer
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1 minute ago, LonelyRacer said:

@BarryBL@Hoo

Is this something, the devs are looking into?

It seems that with some wheels/pedal combination it is almost impossible to keep the revs in control at the start. I have understood, that with controllers it is simple, just put the throttle to certain position and it will keep the revs steady, but with pedals at least with Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer + T3PA-PRO's it doesn't work like that, as explained above (see the video). I tried different linearity etc, but nothing really helps.

Cheers.

As a fellow league and wheel user, its something I guess I have adapted too. I imagine it would be easier if I had access to loadcell pedals etc at the moment. I'll do a few starts and report back, but I may have overlooked it as its a sub conscious thing these days

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I have no problem to control the revs at starting, the problem is that with any throttle power the start is always slow and I get passed by several cars. To decrease the issue I have to turn off Traction control, but then the car is like is always running on a wet track! I´ve been playng F1 since 2011, this is by far the worst edition! Even scoring podium in some races, I can´t get more points (actually they have eliminate the points) and I am forever stopped at the 3rd degree of bronze.

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Moved to chat rather than marked 'by design'. Your issue is widely observed and as has been suggested, it is probably deliberate. It would not take a full throttle application to send the revs soaring on an engine with a clutch that is not / only pre-engaged.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

Moved to chat rather than marked 'by design'. Your issue is widely observed and as has been suggested, it is probably deliberate. It would not take a full throttle application to send the revs soaring on an engine with a clutch that is not / only pre-engaged.

True, but e.g. with real-life 911 using the launch control system, you still can control the revs. They do not go wild with a slight touch of throttle.

Now with the game, you really have no control on the revs at the start with pedals. I haven't driven F1 car, but I don't think the real F1 drivers do pump wildly and uncontrollable the throttle up and down to try to keep the revs at the right spot for the start.

What I would like to see in the game, is that with pedals one can do controlled and repeatable starts, i.e. when stationary keep the revs around e.g. 11k or 11.5k, now it is more of hit-and-miss to get even a decent start with pedals. And when you know that guys on consoles with controllers can do controlled starts, you know you are at disadvantage during the starts against them.

So for the game I would like to see with pedals that the throttle would be less sensitive on the starts. Personally I think it is a bug, where the throttle map for starts is just totally wrong.

Cheers.

Edited by LonelyRacer
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31 minutes ago, LonelyRacer said:

True, but e.g. with real-life 911 using the launch control system, you still can control the revs. They do not go wild with a slight touch of throttle.

Now with the game, you really have no control on the revs at the start with pedals. I haven't driven F1 car, but I don't think the real F1 drivers do pump wildly and uncontrollable the throttle up and down to try to keep the revs at the right spot for the start.

What I would like to see in the game, is that with pedals one can do controlled and repeatable starts, i.e. when stationary keep the revs around e.g. 11k or 11.5k, now it is more of hit-and-miss to get even a decent start with pedals. And when you know that guys on consoles with controllers can do controlled starts, you know you are at disadvantage during the starts against them.

So for the game I would like to see with pedals that the throttle would be less sensitive on the starts. Personally I think it is a bug, where the throttle map for starts is just totally wrong.

Cheers.

Start a thread in suggestions, or I can move this there if you prefer?

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4 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

Start a thread in suggestions, or I can move this there if you prefer?

Hi,

I still think this is a bug.

If the devs say it is not a bug and that it is intentional, i.e. that wheel + pedal users should frantically pump the throttle up and down to try to keep revs steady to make good start and the reason for this is e.g. "to even the field with the controller users at start", then we can move this to suggestions.

Cheers

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1 hour ago, LonelyRacer said:

Hi,

I still think this is a bug.

If the devs say it is not a bug and that it is intentional, i.e. that wheel + pedal users should frantically pump the throttle up and down to try to keep revs steady to make good start and the reason for this is e.g. "to even the field with the controller users at start", then we can move this to suggestions.

Cheers

Agree, its manageable on the controller, yet on the wheel its an unstoppable linear increase which is unmanageable 

Edited by TomAAA
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6 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

Start a thread in suggestions, or I can move this there if you prefer?

I'm not sure if you've been able to try this on a controller but the performance is very different there, which does make me wonder if this isn't intentional. I think it will be interesting to see what @BarryBL thinks when he tries this...

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, LonelyRacer said:

So @BarryBL and @steviejay69,

Is the issue mentioned in this thread a bug or is it intentional?

I hope its not intentional as then wheel users are at a disadvantage as you can control it on the throttle of the controller, yet on the wheel pedals its an uncontrollable linear constant 

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