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The amount of understeer is just starting to get annoying


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Whatever I do with the setup, I’m having so much trouble making the front of the car do what I want. I can’t attack fast corners in any way, if I steer to hard the back begins to get loose, if I go to slow the AI is nearly half a second closer, especially on Austria it’s crazy. 

I can’t remember that the cars in 2021 generate this much understeer. Most of them are super stable also in the fast corners, and yes the cars in the back should have slower cars, but even Haas spins more than going straight forward in a corner😜
 

It’s getting to a point that I’m going to stop with driving because it’s taking away all the fun, and challenge. 
 

IMO they have completely missed what the new rules were supposed to do, and as I can remember there was the same issue in ‘18 or ‘17 where they brought a patch to make the rears more stable which in turn had their effect on the front.

it’s just not fun when you suddenly feel you need to tone the AI down in comparison to previous years because you can’t get the car to turn in like it’s supposed to and seeing the AI just breeze through it. 
 

And my guess is that this also causes the strange and unpredictable behaviour on kerbs. 
 

something is definately seriously wrong, because this much understeer when you try everything to tune it out to the most extreme setups shouldn’t be a thing. 
 

now i also understand why there’s suddenly so much people on ABS on top of the leaderboards in TT. Without ABS the car is next to underiveable in fast corners. 

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I find it ludicrously hard to discuss handling without a clear reading of what is the player’s setup and inputs are.

The most hair pulling setup in this entire game for me has always been Barcelona. It ticks virtually everything in a “what can we include in a circuit?” checklist. It’s got long and short radius corners, increasing radius turns, elevation changes, long fast corners and slow chicanes. It kills me because even if I can personally drive around most “problems” with a balanced setup, I just can not let it go if I’m not able to take Turn 3 flat out and Turn 9 with just a smidge of lift.

And I just sealed the deal on my first setup for it today.

After a truckload of replays and flashbacks, I’m confident every time I spun was because I put a wheel on grass > paint > kerb with too much weight transfer going on. When under steady state drive I could ride any kerb I deemed fit. Even that freaking murderous turn 11 I was mounting relatively well after improving on the steering inputs and throttle control.

Can only speak for Spain and Bahrain as they’re the only tracks I’ve made setups for and logged 30+ laps. Understeering is nowhere near my radar, thankfully. Except for Barcelona T9, every other medium to high speed long corner in these two circuits are on the brim of oversteering, but after these runs and setups I’m confident I can deal with it if my rear starts to slide.

Now I play on a controller with no assist of any kind, but admittedly one change I made that has turned tables in my experience is setting the on throttle diff to left/right on the right analog stick and the brake bias to up/down on it. I adjust the diff 3 times per lap on Bahrain and BB 5 times on Spain. How many times did I do it on F1 2020? Absolutely nil, at least not a consistent approach like this.

All this to say that experiences are bound to vary a lot. It would be more productive if we made it a thing to share clips and setups when discussing the handling. Specially because this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfPgKnxJJ6I

... is quite frequent in the community.

 

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Going flat through the Monaco tunnel in the season one My Team car is a challenge this year. It understeers into the left hand wall and yet if you correct it you oversteer and crash on the right. 

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35 minutes ago, marioho said:

I find it ludicrously hard to discuss handling without a clear reading of what is the player’s setup and inputs are.

The most hair pulling setup in this entire game for me has always been Barcelona. It ticks virtually everything in a “what can we include in a circuit?” checklist. It’s got long and short radius corners, increasing radius turns, elevation changes, long fast corners and slow chicanes. It kills me because even if I can personally drive around most “problems” with a balanced setup, I just can not let it go if I’m not able to take Turn 3 flat out and Turn 9 with just a smidge of lift.

And I just sealed the deal on my first setup for it today.

After a truckload of replays and flashbacks, I’m confident every time I spun was because I put a wheel on grass > paint > kerb with too much weight transfer going on. When under steady state drive I could ride any kerb I deemed fit. Even that freaking murderous turn 11 I was mounting relatively well after improving on the steering inputs and throttle control.

Can only speak for Spain and Bahrain as they’re the only tracks I’ve made setups for and logged 30+ laps. Understeering is nowhere near my radar, thankfully. Except for Barcelona T9, every other medium to high speed long corner in these two circuits are on the brim of oversteering, but after these runs and setups I’m confident I can deal with it if my rear starts to slide.

Now I play on a controller with no assist of any kind, but admittedly one change I made that has turned tables in my experience is setting the on throttle diff to left/right on the right analog stick and the brake bias to up/down on it. I adjust the diff 3 times per lap on Bahrain and BB 5 times on Spain. How many times did I do it on F1 2020? Absolutely nil, at least not a consistent approach like this.

All this to say that experiences are bound to vary a lot. It would be more productive if we made it a thing to share clips and setups when discussing the handling. Specially because this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfPgKnxJJ6I

... is quite frequent in the community.

 

First of all I know what the difference is between over and understeer. 
 

second, there are a few tracks as Austria, great britain for example where Copse is almost impossible flatout without losing the rear or just going straight over the kerbs. Don’t even get me started on Austria, sector 2 and 3 I get my ass handed to me by the AI who seems to be having a secret rails beneath their car.

and I went every way with the setups, softer springs harder springs, frontwing, tyre pressures, rollbar, you name it. It just keeps sliding straight to the outside in the faster part of S2 and S3, even while my wheel is almost FULL lock on 360 degrees. 
 

the front just doesn’t seem to respond to my input, because full lock is simply ridiculous in that part of Austria. Same goes for copse, the line there betweens going to snap oversteer of just ending at the outside over the kerbs of the exit at copse is so extremely thin, when the car threatens to understeer, and you correct it, it’s game over and you spin, if you turn in as how you’re used to it’s almost like the rear is a slingshot which wants to overtake you.

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Same. Game feels so difficult to drive without assists. And it’s just not a fun feeling to not feel comfortable with the car and have to drive cautiously the entire time. It sucks. Try getting a good lap on monaco. Holy ****, my last f1 was 2019, this game just feels so uncomfortable to drive. 

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25 minutes ago, LagoaBE said:

Same. Game feels so difficult to drive without assists. And it’s just not a fun feeling to not feel comfortable with the car and have to drive cautiously the entire time. It sucks. Try getting a good lap on monaco. Holy ****, my last f1 was 2019, this game just feels so uncomfortable to drive. 

Just found out that Zandvoort turns 8 and 9 are also suffering from understeer wheras the AI goes on rails

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When I get to Silverstone I'll let you know, haven't driven there yet. Austria is my go-to track whenever I boot any F1 game after a while and I had none of what you're describing.

The closest I can relate to is the understeering resulting in snap oversteer, but you sure know how to correct it.

This week was the first time I gave no-ABS a serious go, the last assist to turn off. Playing on a controller, I thought I would have to seriously drop the AI but turns out 90 is manageable. I sure have no complains about the handling.

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1 minute ago, marioho said:

When I get to Silverstone I'll let you know, haven't driven there yet. Austria is my go-to track whenever I boot any F1 game after a while and I had none of what you're describing.

The closest I can relate to is the understeering resulting in snap oversteer, but you sure know how to correct it.

This week was the first time I gave no-ABS a serious go, the last assist to turn off. Playing on a controller, I thought I would have to seriously drop the AI but turns out 90 is manageable. I sure have no complains about the handling.

Well I guess controller is a lot different from wheel then, because a lot of wheel users complain about this. Perhaps because controller input is much more sensitive and more “forgiving” than a wheel (just look on youtube and see people in the rain using controllers in stead of wheel because it’s faster) 

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Can't say as I've never put my hands on a wheel. But I used to have to cope with understeer a lot in F1 2019 and that's not the case anymore. Sure I can't exclude my own style or ability to drive around problems changing with time, but the handling does not seem to induce more understeer IMO.

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15 minutes ago, marioho said:

Can't say as I've never put my hands on a wheel. But I used to have to cope with understeer a lot in F1 2019 and that's not the case anymore. Sure I can't exclude my own style or ability to drive around problems changing with time, but the handling does not seem to induce more understeer IMO.

Weird. I was playing F1 2019 with a wheel and no assists a lot last few weeks and the cars feel so much better to drive. Like 2021 they have no grip and understeer like crazy, then snap into oversteer... the kerbs are ridiculous aswel, and the FFB is kinda trash in this game aswel. The road/grip feel in the wheel is so bad. Dunno what’s going on, they need to patch this game. 

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If we are to trust that the feedback from f1 drivers are accurate, we need to adjust. Without a good setup I do feel so much understeer, yet feels plausible the car handling for me. With a good setup It does make a difference. To me, the problem is the AI flying through copse and some track sectors than the handling itself, which is not ideal because it makes it feel that we are the inconsistent ones.

 

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I don't have a problem with understeer, but then it should be pretty much the same for everyone. In Zandvoort my time is actually good enough for P12, but in the second sector I am 0.5 seconds slower than the AI due to the understeer, which is why I have to start from P16. Of course you could say that this is due to my car, but when my own TK is half a second faster that's a little bit strange.

Edited by TJH
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After some extensive practices, I actually find this year's car easier to drive than last year.

Surprisingly the car had tons of rear end grip and could take corners like Suzuka Turn 9 much easier, as long as the car is on the grey stuff and not unsettle in anyway shape or form, of course LOL.

About understeering, if you excluded the broken AI (which I believe is probably just a messed up on the dev side) on some tracks, the car really only unsteer on very slow corners, but you can still sorta fix that with setups or just adjusting your driving style a little.  

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@DRTApophis I'm leaning towards what you say too. Tomorrow I'll try to do my first 50% GP so that will be my first real stand off against the AI. Speaking only about the player handling, I'm way more satisfied with my setups now than I was on the previous two games.

I'm in no way a quick driver. It's just that it feels like I can make setups that fit my driving style like a glove, putting a great measure of control over the car behavior. Then when it comes to that of odd part of the track that your build cannot fully account for (just like in real life, how teams must choose to sacrifice a section or even a whole sector in a way), I feel like I can easily drive around the issue.

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8 minutes ago, marioho said:

@DRTApophis I'm leaning towards what you say too. Tomorrow I'll try to do my first 50% GP so that will be my first real stand off against the AI. Speaking only about the player handling, I'm way more satisfied with my setups now than I was on the previous two games.

I'm in no way a quick driver. It's just that it feels like I can make setups that fit my driving style like a glove, putting a great measure of control over the car behavior. Then when it comes to that of odd part of the track that your build cannot fully account for (just like in real life, how teams must choose to sacrifice a section or even a whole sector in a way), I feel like I can easily drive around the issue.

I think the change of grip of the tires are a bit more linear this year, I seems to be able to read deeper and react to them more accurately because of it.

I'm not good at setup myself, but so far non of the last year's setup I took from the time trial players work this time around, even the default setup works better in a lot of cases imo. Atm the only setup that seems to work consistently for me is:

Even or sometimes higher front downforce than rear

Very hard front/soft rear suspension + very soft front/hard rear roll-bar + high ride height (4 or above)

And then I just go from there, adjust them until I think I felt confidence in the corners, than I start messing with other stuff. 

 

 

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@DRTApophis pretty much this. I tried turning off ABS on F1 2020 just as I was feeling comfortable with TC off, but my first impression was that it was too much work for not that big of a reward on a controller and that I was putting too much stuff on my plate, still finding myself breaking traction on a corner exit here and there.

When I turned it off this time though, it was a delight! I was locking rear and front here, there and everywhere but it was so much fun. I attribute the bulk of it at the grip feeling more linear and the rework they seem to have done on the vibrations. Even on a regular Dualshock 4, it feels like I've got way more reading out of the controller feedback, I just wonder how it is on the Dualsense (paging Mr. @Ultra3142) or on a wheel proper.

I have not loaded the default game setups yet but it doesn't surprise me the extent of the changes in there. I hope that whole "this slider to the left, this slider to the right" meta gets dialed down this year with how the handling has been reformed.

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I'm actually surprised that someone is finding this year's car understeery. They are more netural if not oversteery this year.

If you go out with a setup close to neutral the car can snap in high speeds corners. They lack downforce obviously but understeer and oversteer are independent concepts.

You can have a car that can't generate downforce but it's oversteery and vice-versa.

New default setups are clearly an indication. The new average for wings is basically 8.

Front wing + rear wing / 2 is around 7/8/9/10 this year.

My experience so far has been:

-Less overall downforce (high wings required)

-More mechanical cornering grip (less unwanted sliding)

-A touch less traction

-More oversteer

-Less overheating (higher values of tyre pressures)

 

My current base setup is Dave Gaming's base setup a user posted here in the forum:

7-9

65-53

Right-Left-One click-Left

2-3-2-3-3-6

100 57

23-23-max-max

Edited by sirio994
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I would not use the AI as a comparison. The AI is just faster this year. Numbers aren't what they used to be. And in a couple of tracks they get unmatchable grip and downforce.

I have more confidence in the car this year and I'm nowhere near where I used to be against the AI.

I don't know if the learning curve will bring us where we used to be. I'm speaking in general, as I said the AI clearly has some flaws and unmatchable sectors here and there.

Last year after a week I was back on pace if not faster. I was in the beta too so I had time to adjust to this year's handling.

The best players in the world are playing the game and WRs have been posted. What a competitive setup looks like starts to be pretty clear: higher wing levels, higher pressures, higher brake bias, reduced toe (like in the past).

I've seen two philosophies: the classic lower front wing and stiffer rear (but with closer and less extreme numbers compared to the past) and the new higher front wing, stiff front school of preset 4.

I don't think there's a secret formula that will give us back tenths or seconds to match old AI levels. I've seen youtubers and competitive players getting destroyed in clean air pure pace situations.

I'm referring to the current state of the AI. We've yet to see the general performance patch that will make the cars slower and its effects. There will be patches to adjust and improve the overall balance of the AI. But if it stays as it is or close, it's better to forget old numbers and adjust to a new scale...

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AI has always been different on different tracks. Theres never been consistently across all the tracks of any release.

As for understeer,  im wondering if this has to do with the difficulty of getting the tyres in the right operating window as they have IRL. Unfortunately the use of temperatures to get into the right window and its importance for grip is something thats been lacking from the game for a long time now.

Strategy, tyre temps, well lets face tyre modelling, brake temperatures and the use of undercut/overcut (so important in F1 IRL but none existant in the game) are all items poorly developed or use missing from the game in terms of the impact they should have. 

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33 minutes ago, dino78 said:

As for understeer,  im wondering if this has to do with the difficulty of getting the tyres in the right operating window as they have IRL.

Same, this doesn't seem to be taken into account as much as it should. I immediately felt the differences in the tire model and using a wheel, what I was or wasn't able to do in relation to the lines I wanted to take depending on the tires at that moment. They've caused me a moment or two of snap oversteer as well and it's great that you can feel cold tires shifting around as you turn as they're not yet gripped to the tarmac. It's worth taking into account, as otherwise I haven't noticed any issues with understeer, and if anything my setups are very rear wing heavy this year. 

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Its all about the AI level from track to track.

Me and a friend started a 2 player career with 80% AI no Assists with HAAS.

In Bahrain our grid was 15th and 16th. In Race we had good chances for points but made some mistakes.

In Spain no Chance at all

In Baku no Chance at all

In Canada we are fighting for Pole (with the slowest car in the grid depends on car performance) 

So yes the AI Level is like every year not the same on every track.

10 hours ago, AlexTT said:

especially on Austria it’s crazy. 

Thats 100% true, Austria in the 2 left (end 2nd sector) and 2 right (3rd sector) no chance to keep up with them.

 

To the under steer problem it is of course all about your settings.

What I found out and works for me:

Front Suspension: soft / hard  --> results in over / understeer

Rear Suspension: hard / soft --> results in over / understeer

 

example front susp: 1 rear: 8 you will get massive over steer

             front susp: 8 rear: 1 you will get massive under steer

if your rear is loose in fast corners: adjust anti roll front go higher and rear go a little bit lower

if your rear is loose in slow corners: adjust front susp. go harder and rear go a little bit softer

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, marioho said:

paging Mr. @Ultra3142

I'm lucky to be able to use a wheel so I can't really comment on how the Dualsense is to race with. Even if I tried it then it would just be so different to what I'm used to that I couldn't comment meaningfully.

As for the subject of the thread, I don't know if there's some way the game is performing differently for a few but most wheel drivers seem to be adapting just fine to the new handing model from what I can tell, recognising that optimal setups are very different to F1 2021. As has been suggested above I think that improved AI performance is more what's actually troubling some.

Edited by Ultra3142
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Hey so the understeer is really bad for first season on MyTeam and the Haas and Williams.

For Silverstone and Spa specifically where JAAAMES setups were too oversteery for this year's game, I ended up using the Balance Setup already made in game and then making sure the Front suspension is softer than the rears.

Afterwards, I made sure tyre pressures are higher on the fronts then the rears by 3-4 clicks. Reduced ride height to 2/3.

At Silverstone with S1 Haas, I was able to make a 1:28.3

 

Baku is difficult as well in S3 trying to get around T12-15 and T18-19 with the backend stepping out.

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