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Releasing Unfinished Games


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1 hour ago, Gh0ds said:

Having tried to play ranked this morning and managed 2 races in over an hour, I agree this is not acceptable. Joining errors, getting kicked out of lobbies, the information being shown in the lobby is inaccurate. How this experience has gone backwards from F1 2020 (which wasn't great either) is beyond me, especially considering that F1 itself is showcasing eSports on this game and should be at the cutting edge of online racing experience.

I have tried 5 or 6 ranked races, not one went clean. When you’re the one in front, you simply have a target painted on you. Guess the solution is when they can’t keep up, take them out. 
 

people waiting on track to take the leader out : 3 times (BECAUSE GHOSTING IS OFF)

People on 2nd or 3rd when they’re couple seconds behind, keep full throttle, cut a corner and smash into leader : 3 times

 

Yeah Ranked Lobbies are FANTASTIC! People are such sore losers and childish. No wonder the non assist users are screaming for a seperate ranked lobby for non assists. At least those races would be clean and I would bet that those lobbies are much more crowded and more used than the “destruction derby”, uuuum sorry, “Ranked” lobby where every cheater and scumbag can get the highest “skill” level, which in fact doesn’t reflect any form of skill whatsoever.

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1 minute ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

It's a fair evaluation!   If you're attempting two modes and neither of them are working optimally then it's only logical to focus on one and then bring the other in afterwards!   That would go down like a lead balloon though and they'd lose so many from their fanbase 😂   

I would definitely prefer Online if the experiences i'd had were more positive.  I'm completely open to giving it another go this year but when it's actually working as designed.    I'd hate if they had to sacrifice single player experience for that though. 

Although, wouldn't have to worry as much about licensing and realistic performance/tracks if you're going online only as you wouldn't be the official F1 game anymore.  That'd trim down these forums exponentially when nobody can complain about it not matching the real life season...

I truly wish some of the lead designers would boot up GT Sport and see what can be done with an online system. If you take the GT Sport FIA races, a full championship spread across a season, in which all players can enter lobbies at set times on set dates, and you choose the car manufacturer you will represent and so are provided with their cars, and you think they could do this across an F1 season, with players choosing their F1 team to represent, and on those set dates the lobbies will open up for players to join and race that champkionship event. Scoring points for themselves and their teams to complete a final leaderboard. 

 

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To some degree I can see that it's harder to properly test online modes before launch than single player. For an ongoing franchise though you'd hope that building on experience from previous years should be able to prevent the worst problems though. I guess the issue here is they've definitely tried to make improvements to the online experience, which hopefully will pan out in the long run but obviously aren't working right now.

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53 minutes ago, stephensmattlee said:

Have to admit that yes I did expect a few bugs and issues, BUT I definitely wasn’t expecting THIS many issues.  
 

To be honest I thought we’d have not much more than a re-skinned F1 2020 with the new story mode tacked on for the new game.  
 

I certainly don’t blame the developers themselves but as I’ve said elsewhere I really feel like the July release date this year was way too over ambitious given the obvious issues caused by covid. 

 

Well, it IS a reskin of 2020 but slightly changed design. They took out the “hide menu” button when changing camera settings on PS at least, plus i think they took the 2018 and 2020 car models, put them in the blender and this is what came out (about the weird understeer behaviour)

 

but like I keep saying: polish a turd, it’s still a turd.

and at the basics off it all is the **** EGO engine. That thing isn’t ready for Next gen whatsoever, screen tearing is since the start of that thing a problem, i have stuttering cut scenes on PS5, and I can keep going. 
 

throw that piece of junk where it belongs and look at what EA has in house with example the Frostbite engine, graphics are 100 times better, and games run 10000000 times better in general. 
 

but who created the EGO and can’t fix screentearing in 10 years needs to retire.

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4 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

To some degree I can see that it's harder to properly test online modes before launch than single player. For an ongoing franchise though you'd hope that building on experience from previous years should be able to prevent the worst problems though. I guess the issue here is they've definitely tried to make improvements to the online experience, which hopefully will pan out in the long run but obviously aren't working right now.

Euhm create an OPEN BETA? Let everyone jump in en masse and see how it performs. 

But CM never listens to their consumers. transparency is something non existent there, because these things you all read here IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALREADY CRYING FOR FOR YEARS, but we get story modes, new menu’s, pretty clouds, all that kind off **** WE DON’T ASK FOR! 
 

If you want to add stuff, fine, BUT FIRST FIX YOUR BASICS AND GET IT WORKING STABLE! Starting with the engine! 
 

It’s simply lazy to the bone, every release has the same bugs, same ********, but well, all kind of new **** and the bugs stay. 
 

they think we’re stupid and don’t see that they just copy past each release, little bit of new design in the menu’s and here and there and think we believe them it’s completely new designed. 
 

but if you basics is a **** engine, the problems will always stay.

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4 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

Euhm create an OPEN BETA? Let everyone jump in en masse and see how it performs. 

But CM never listens to their consumers. transparency is something non existent there, because these things you all read here IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALREADY CRYING FOR FOR YEARS, but we get story modes, new menu’s, pretty clouds, all that kind off **** WE DON’T ASK FOR! 
 

If you want to add stuff, fine, BUT FIRST FIX YOUR BASICS AND GET IT WORKING STABLE! Starting with the engine! 
 

It’s simply lazy to the bone, every release has the same bugs, same ********, but well, all kind of new **** and the bugs stay. 
 

they think we’re stupid and don’t see that they just copy past each release, little bit of new design in the menu’s and here and there and think we believe them it’s completely new designed. 
 

but if you basics is a **** engine, the problems will always stay.

So why did you buy it? Every post from you it this ranting man, I don't get why you buy the game and come here if you have this much hatred for it. 

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5 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

Euhm create an OPEN BETA? Let everyone jump in en masse and see how it performs. 

But CM never listens to their consumers. transparency is something non existent there, because these things you all read here IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALREADY CRYING FOR FOR YEARS, but we get story modes, new menu’s, pretty clouds, all that kind off **** WE DON’T ASK FOR! 
 

If you want to add stuff, fine, BUT FIRST FIX YOUR BASICS AND GET IT WORKING STABLE! Starting with the engine! 
 

It’s simply lazy to the bone, every release has the same bugs, same ********, but well, all kind of new **** and the bugs stay. 
 

they think we’re stupid and don’t see that they just copy past each release, little bit of new design in the menu’s and here and there and think we believe them it’s completely new designed. 
 

but if you basics is a **** engine, the problems will always stay.

Open Betas aren't always effective. It can turn into people just playing the game early when ideally you're trying to find as many people who will provide feedback, not just those who want to get a game as early as possible. 

In general, I can get why they don't change too much year-on-year.  General reviews are positive and people generally like the game. They're not going to revolutionize something that seems to be working and evolving year-on-year isn't a terrible idea.  Whether they are actually evolving is a different question..

I can understand the gripes with the engine.  It's probable that they're just hanging on til the New Gen crossover window comes along and then they can go big on the new engine as they wouldn't need to focus on the current gen too much. 

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16 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

It’s simply lazy to the bone, every release has the same bugs, same ********, but well, all kind of new **** and the bugs stay. 

Lazy really isn't the right description for me. I'm confident the Codemasters staff all care about their game, want it to perform well and work hard to achieve this. The issue will likely more fall into the category of commercial/financial pressures limiting time and resources such that other things have to be prioritised. Possibly you've never had the same experience in your own career but I certainly have. 

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23 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

Well, it IS a reskin of 2020 but slightly changed design. They took out the “hide menu” button when changing camera settings on PS at least, plus i think they took the 2018 and 2020 car models, put them in the blender and this is what came out (about the weird understeer behaviour)

 

but like I keep saying: polish a turd, it’s still a turd.

and at the basics off it all is the **** EGO engine. That thing isn’t ready for Next gen whatsoever, screen tearing is since the start of that thing a problem, i have stuttering cut scenes on PS5, and I can keep going. 
 

throw that piece of junk where it belongs and look at what EA has in house with example the Frostbite engine, graphics are 100 times better, and games run 10000000 times better in general. 
 

but who created the EGO and can’t fix screentearing in 10 years needs to retire.

Yeah I get what you’re saying. Maybe they literally shouldn’t have tried to change as much as they did.  
 

It’s very frustrating when you see the same bugs reappear year and year after being patched out. Was playing the other day and had some random floating tyres appear in the middle of the track at Bahrain. Remember seeing this issue years and years ago and just amazed that issues that keep coming back, I’m pretty sure the braking marker boards randomly disappeared during the race as well. 

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3 minutes ago, TFBISE16 said:

EGO engine first used in 2007. You could buy PS2 games in 2007, that's 3 generations of console ago.

The engine has developed since then though. The current game is not using the same game engine as was used in 2007.

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3 minutes ago, stephensmattlee said:

Yeah I get what you’re saying. Maybe they literally shouldn’t have tried to change as much as they did.  

And then we'd have everyone complaining that Codemasters/EA were just trying to get everyone to pay way too much for the same game...

(I get your point though. Personally I wish the resources put into Braking Point had been used elsewhere. I appreciate I wasn't really the target audience for this though, and if it does succeed in bringing new players to the franchise then it's harder to argue it was the wrong decision.)

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27 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

The engine has developed since then though. The current game is not using the same game engine as was used in 2007.

Indeed, but not enough. Focus has to be on next gen, sorry xbox one owners but time to move on. As long as the old gen is supported we wont see any real progress. Bin it off and focus on new gen consoles, rebuild from ground up and get set up properly for the next 5 years. 

EAs frostbite?

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1 minute ago, TFBISE16 said:

Indeed, but not enough. Focus has to be on next gen, sorry xbox one owners but time to move on. As long as the old gen is supported we wont see any real progress. Bin it off and focus on new gen consoles, rebuild from ground up and get set up properly for the next 5 years. 

EAs frostbite?

Has Frostbite been used for any racing games that you know of? EGO has been specifically designed for racing games and an evolution of this may still be the better option.

Having to create a game that runs on so many different hardware options must make the developers job harder though, and this year having three new ones to deal with won't have helped. Commercially I'd guess we'll have at least one more cross-gen release but let's see. 

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1 minute ago, Ultra3142 said:

Has Frostbite been used for any racing games that you know of? EGO has been specifically designed for racing games and an evolution of this may still be the better option.

Having to create a game that runs on so many different hardware options must make the developers job harder though, and this year having three new ones to deal with won't have helped. Commercially I'd guess we'll have at least one more cross-gen release but let's see. 

It was used for NFS Heat which to be fair was pretty good. 

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4 minutes ago, TFBISE16 said:

Indeed, but not enough. Focus has to be on next gen, sorry xbox one owners but time to move on. As long as the old gen is supported we wont see any real progress. Bin it off and focus on new gen consoles, rebuild from ground up and get set up properly for the next 5 years. 

EAs frostbite?

While I support the general idea that it would be better to focus on making the game better and therefore have a priority on Next Gen, it would be a bizarre strategy for them to focus on a market that really doesn't make up a substantial amount of their current playerbase and bin off the current gen. They'd either force people to buy a next gen console or they'd lose money from the current gen not buying the game.   So, really all you're doing is inconveniencing the financially-challenged members of the playerbase by making them buy something they can't afford.  That's terrible marketing.

I think they'll wait for the natural evolution of players migrating to newer consoles and everyone will have to be patient. 

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10 minutes ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

hey'd either force people to buy a next gen console or they'd lose money from the current gen not buying the game.   So, really all you're doing is inconveniencing the financially-challenged members of the playerbase by making them buy something they can't afford. 

This is not even possible yet at major retailers, nevermind if it's affordable. 

I fully appreciate if you've been able to get a next gen console that you will want everything to be catered to you. The reality is that you're early adopters in a time of limited availability and the majority of the playerbase may not catch up for some time yet. Companies will have to remain focused on the PS4 / XB1 for sales until that time, and it will be longer than previous generation switches. 

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This ******* game is so bloody broken.

My car is stuck in a loop at the pit entry trying to drive into a wall while the race continues. Utterly ******* ridiculous.

My car changes into a ghost car so other AI cars can still pit.

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1 hour ago, Ultra3142 said:

Lazy really isn't the right description for me. I'm confident the Codemasters staff all care about their game, want it to perform well and work hard to achieve this. The issue will likely more fall into the category of commercial/financial pressures limiting time and resources such that other things have to be prioritised. Possibly you've never had the same experience in your own career but I certainly have. 

Buddy, I’m an accountmanager so I work each and every month with the pressure of performing, keeping my clients satisfied, and earning the business enough money. 70 hrs a week, 7 days available at work
 

but to MY clients it goes always quality of quantity, if I have to invest resources into keeping my clients happy, putting in that extra effort to keep him where others won’t go because it costs money,  provide service by showing I’m listening to him and together with him working to a satifying solution so be it.

that’s why i have clients for more then 12 years who trust me blindly, and when they call with issues they know It’s getting solved fast. 
 

Service is everything. Even as quality over quantity.

 

First make sure you’re quality is SPOT-ON, afterwards you can work on quantity. It’s pretty easy so create quantity when you’re quality is superb. When your quality is terrible, good luck creating quantity.

and if CM spent their resources for once in creating something without the same returning bugs, or patch something without FFB going bonkers, creating some DECENT online ranked lobbies (and well, eveything else which all people are complaining about for years) and create a GOOD quality base,

I don’t think anyone would complain about missing stuff when they’re actually are having fun and enjoy the racing without glitches everywhere or having to cross your fingers to not encounter some assholes who ruin online lobbies with cheating or ramming and dirty driving. This is something I honestly believe. When your quality is spot on, people start having fun, more fun is more commercial value, is more sales. 
 

and THEN you can start thinking about story modes or whatever, but even if while in development appears it will make the entire game to buggy, DON’T PUT IT IN if the quality of the overall product suffers from it.

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1 hour ago, Ultra3142 said:

The engine has developed since then though. The current game is not using the same game engine as was used in 2007.

And yet they just can’t eliminate screen tearing or stuttering in cutscenes in 14 years… 

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4 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

Experience. The point made above was just this and it's right. I certainly fully expected the new game to be buggy, although not as bad as it is.

I've posted this elsewhere but reducing the amount of pre-ordering feels like the only way consumers are really likely to make the games industry as a whole take more time to test and fix games ahead of launch.

(I did pre-order F1 2021 but a disc version of the standard game at 25% off full RRP. The game is working well enough for me that I don't personally regret this right now, on the assumption that the biggest current issues will be resolved, which I fully expect them to be.)

 

OK, so... because we've experienced it before we're just supposed to accept it?   NO!  Why is anyone OK with buying a product that has flaws that don't even allow it to work?  That's like buying a car and it doesn't start and saying.. Oh well.    Or like spending $100 on a steak dinner and you ask for medium rare and you get it brought out well done.  Or it's like buying a new TV that doesn't turn on for more than 5 minutes at a time.   That is NOT ok.  I for the life of me can't understand why anyone is willing to accept it.  Because prior experience should tell you to expect it?  Give me a break... that's exactly the problem here.  They know there's nothing we can do about it, they've got our money already.  Will they fix things, yeah they've been good about that but it doesn't excuse the fact that this game wasn't ready.  Have you looked at the bugs forum?  It's a joke.  Again, let me repeat this although I'm sure you'll try and find a way to defend them again; I literally can't play the career mode and every 2-3 boring GP races the game freezes, crashes and shuts off my console and has it hot to the touch which I've NEVER seen with my XSX since I've had it.   That's not something anyone should expect because of "experience".  It's the clear sign of a product that shouldn't have been released in its current state.  These are the most powerful consoles ever made.  This is a game still running on a platform/engine that's how old now?  We shouldn't be having these problems, nor should we accept it or expect it because of past experience. That is exactly the problem; we've allowed them to get away with it for far too long.  I guess it's easy for you to defend though because you're not having issues like this it seems.  Whether you're having the issue or not though; I can't understand why anyone would defend it and say we should expect it.

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12 minutes ago, petro1319 said:

OK, so... because we've experienced it before we're just supposed to accept it?

That wasn't the point being made. The point was that it was entirely predictable.

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52 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

Buddy, I’m an accountmanager so I work each and every month with the pressure of performing, keeping my clients satisfied, and earning the business enough money. 70 hrs a week, 7 days available at work
 

but to MY clients it goes always quality of quantity, if I have to invest resources into keeping my clients happy, putting in that extra effort to keep him where others won’t go because it costs money,  provide service by showing I’m listening to him and together with him working to a satifying solution so be it.

that’s why i have clients for more then 12 years who trust me blindly, and when they call with issues they know It’s getting solved fast. 
 

Service is everything. Even as quality over quantity.

 

First make sure you’re quality is SPOT-ON, afterwards you can work on quantity. It’s pretty easy so create quantity when you’re quality is superb. When your quality is terrible, good luck creating quantity.

and if CM spent their resources for once in creating something without the same returning bugs, or patch something without FFB going bonkers, creating some DECENT online ranked lobbies (and well, eveything else which all people are complaining about for years) and create a GOOD quality base,

I don’t think anyone would complain about missing stuff when they’re actually are having fun and enjoy the racing without glitches everywhere or having to cross your fingers to not encounter some assholes who ruin online lobbies with cheating or ramming and dirty driving. This is something I honestly believe. When your quality is spot on, people start having fun, more fun is more commercial value, is more sales. 
 

and THEN you can start thinking about story modes or whatever, but even if while in development appears it will make the entire game to buggy, DON’T PUT IT IN if the quality of the overall product suffers from it.

Good for you but my point stands about the realities the development team may face, and whether they are 'lazy'.

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