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Releasing Unfinished Games


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15 minutes ago, marioho said:

I want the official stance of the developers. I don't care if it comes through a community manager or directly from the devs, as long as it is the official word from the team behind the game about a given issue or feature.

The community manager role exist for that exact reason, mate. And in talking about Bungie you mention they having "good community managers", so I don't follow you in requiring the guy that actually wrote the code for the front springs physics stepping in here to talk about their plans for balancing understeering, as that is what it seems when you say you want to hear "from the devs" and not Barry.

Aside from that, last I heard Destiny 2 is not really pushing any envelope. Far from it.

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That and a grind system that actually grind the player's teeth out of frustration for the amount of hours they have to put in for the transmog feature.

Luckily I don’t care about transmog and vanity Items. I just love the Raids😉

and about those community managers, the “twabs” are written by them indeed, but when you read them, there are pieces of content which are written by lead designer of the pvp section, or weapon sandbox, raid team, and so on, in which they explain changes to certain parts and in a way that you can say, hmm okay, i get why they do that and the reasoning behind it.

 

plus they interact through their twitch channels where the raid team does a raid and explains the ideas about the encounters, lvl design, and so on. The pvp devs do bungie bounties where random player teams can encounter the bungie devs in pvp and when they win they get an emblem or whatever. 
 

the devs actually try to interact with their community. 

but it took the loss of a massive playerbase to get to that point. 

Edited by AlexTT
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So let us all hope that with the backbone of EA behind them a company the size of Codemasters can produce content for the purpose of allowing the community to keep tabs with the product road map the same way big guns the like of Bungie can. If we are to dismiss this or that aspect of the game with a "luckily I don't care", I've got a beauty of a game in the form of F1 2021 because I sure as heck don't care about online other than an event once in a blue moon and I'm loving the handling, the AI, and being able to play with the pad with no assists with the setups I create for myself.

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Luckily I don’t have a Xbox. The support forums are full of issues on that platform. I feel for them.😩

And like i said, i respect everyone’s opinion. 

I’m just beeing critical because Ilove this sport, have been to almost every race in my life with exception of abu dabi, bahrain and singapore, and when you compare it to other titles as GT, PCars, Assetto, F1 doesn’t get near those titles graphically, while they have more cars, more tracks, more in depth setups, but not al the nonsense like “braking point”  They look stunning, and then there’s this… character models (give russel a sandwich or 10 in this game) are just meh, and it all doesn’t come near the possibilities which are possible when you look at the competetion. But what the competition does perfect in my opinion is what it’s build for: RACING. 
 

story mode? I’ll buy a RPG. 
 

yeah I play online a lot (except 2021 because all my ranked races were full of rammers) and the unranked lobbies are still the same as previous years. Yes they have filters for assists, but why do i still see lobbies where all assists are ON? And I can only see 25! Lobbies, where’s the rest? 

They’ve never in a million years did anything GOOD, usefull or positive about the online part, except for a bit of design. But the fundamentals are still the same. 
 

1 example: Lando Norris who get shut out every time on stream when he wanted to join a lobby. 

Quite emberassing to be honest if I was CM, and one of the favourite F1 drivers who also streams live, and YOUR game FAILS multiple times because your online lobbies are **** designed and you STILL have the same **** a year later? Well that proofs that they don’t care, are ignorant as hell, or they can’t do better and don’t want to invest in a better infrastructure. 
 

and this and so much more is just something to be ashamed of. 
 

If I was CM and would design something related to the pinnacle of motorsport, I would do everything I can to release something that reflects that. Offline and online. 
 

do you buy a racegame to race or to play a story? 

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Oh you're not leaving this topic until you write a long and thorough report of how it was to attend a race at Interlagos, Monaco and Spa, what is your favorite circuit and why it is Interlagos!

Now regarding Breaking Point, there was a thread this week where I shared my opinion. Do I personally care about it? Not in the slightest. But I'm still glad it was included. It is corn for our chicken, hopefully.

My missus did not know much about F1. She came in through Drive to Survive and your pal here offering all the technical and historical insight I could before reaching the point of boredom – and that was harder than driving with ABS off, I tell you! With this game mode included she's shown interest in the game. Now amplify this anecdote to the whole video game community. If Codies were ever to venture in a gateway to casual gamers that taps from the social media age shenanigans, this was the way and the moment! And any game developer could use extra revenue.

If it helps the franchise to expand to a new audience, bringing in resources that can be applied to improve the core racing experience we all love? Then I'm glad it is there. Like I said, corn for our chicken. Or like I said in that previous thread, a rising tide lifts all boats.

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@NoZoMijie

  • Improved driving model
  • Better damage model
  • Better AI
  • Co-op career
  • Streamlined single player career modes
  • Better onboarding for new players and casuals e.g. possibility of increasing the grip of surfaces like grass, paint and curbs

Not that much of a leap relatively to F1 2019 > F1 2020 but this is a yearly franchise. I would love to see more and some of the changes are lackluster to me, but I'm happy with the game. 

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35 minutes ago, marioho said:

Oh you're not leaving this topic until you write a long and thorough report of how it was to attend a race at Interlagos, Monaco and Spa, what is your favorite circuit and why it is Interlagos!

Now regarding Breaking Point, there was a thread this week where I shared my opinion. Do I personally care about it? Not in the slightest. But I'm still glad it was included. It is corn for our chicken, hopefully.

My missus did not know much about F1. She came in through Drive to Survive and your pal here offering all the technical and historical insight I could before reaching the point of boredom – and that was harder than driving with ABS off, I tell you! With this game mode included she's shown interest in the game. Now amplify this anecdote to the whole video game community. If Codies were ever to venture in a gateway to casual gamers that taps from the social media age shenanigans, this was the way and the moment! And any game developer could use extra revenue.

If it helps the franchise to expand to a new audience, bringing in resources that can be applied to improve the core racing experience we all love? Then I'm glad it is there. Like I said, corn for our chicken. Or like I said in that previous thread, a rising tide lifts all boats.

Haha Interlagos was 12 years ago or something, but the race and fans are always great! Only were we not allowed to leave the hotel without security in that time… Monaco you insta feel poor because it’s EXPENSIVE coffee 15 bucks or something like that but the setting is so different than example silverstone or spa. Spa is a yearly “obligation” since I’m from Holland, and IT’S SPA! Need I say more??? Ever stood at the entrance at eau rouge and looked up? The incline is massive😊

my favourite circuit is hard. Silverstone has crazy fans, but like you said interlagos with all the nutty brazilians is on the same page. 
 

that’s why singapore and abu dabi are still on the bucketlist, nightraces are just awesome, and abu dabi circuit with the hotel and ferrari world are still breathtaking. But singapore with the whole city covered in all those lights are also addicting
 

favourite race spain 2016, max first win. For a small country like ours, having such a talent beeing able to win is so AWESOME! (Plus Hamilton and Rosberg went off in front of us😜)

 

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54 minutes ago, marioho said:

Oh you're not leaving this topic until you write a long and thorough report of how it was to attend a race at Interlagos, Monaco and Spa, what is your favorite circuit and why it is Interlagos!

Now regarding Breaking Point, there was a thread this week where I shared my opinion. Do I personally care about it? Not in the slightest. But I'm still glad it was included. It is corn for our chicken, hopefully.

My missus did not know much about F1. She came in through Drive to Survive and your pal here offering all the technical and historical insight I could before reaching the point of boredom – and that was harder than driving with ABS off, I tell you! With this game mode included she's shown interest in the game. Now amplify this anecdote to the whole video game community. If Codies were ever to venture in a gateway to casual gamers that taps from the social media age shenanigans, this was the way and the moment! And any game developer could use extra revenue.

If it helps the franchise to expand to a new audience, bringing in resources that can be applied to improve the core racing experience we all love? Then I'm glad it is there. Like I said, corn for our chicken. Or like I said in that previous thread, a rising tide lifts all boats.

Btw I get what you mean, but do you know how much people moved away from F1 by CM since they worked more on those functions and always negelected online experience (online is a bigger part of F1 than you think btw just look at all those streamers nowadays)  They all went to ACC, PCARS, GT, Rfactor and so on, just because the online experience is so much better and actually based on skill/assists, connections, dirty driving. CM has seriously lost more players because of the trash online experience, than they will gain in casuals who play it for 10 hours or so, the online world goes on 24/7 and THAT is the core group you have to value (apart from people like you whole destroy the offline part😜), respect and embrace and listen to. Because who says the casuals will come back next year? The online community ones however will buy it every year and play until next year IF the online lobbies are well designed, fair and in result FUN! 

that makes CM look like amateurs in my opinion compared to the other big devs.
 

But hey, my whole rig is F1, so I only do F1. But ever since 2021 came out, i almost haven’t run online, simply because it’s the same old ****, different number on the box. 

Edited by AlexTT
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15 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

Btw I get what you mean, but do you know how much people moved away from F1 by CM since they worked more on those functions and always negelected online experience (online is a bigger part of F1 than you think btw just look at all those streamers nowadays)  They all went to ACC, PCARS, GT, Rfactor and so on, just because the online experience is so much better and actually based on skill/assists, connections, dirty driving. CM has seriously lost more players because of the trash online experience, than they will gain in casuals who play it for 10 hours or so, the online world goes on 24/7 and THAT is the core group you have to value (apart from people like you whole destroy the offline part😜), respect and embrace and listen to. Because who says the casuals will come back next year? The online community ones however will buy it every year and play until next year IF the online lobbies are well designed, fair and in result FUN! 

that makes CM look like amateurs in my opinion compared to the other big devs.
 

But hey, my whole rig is F1, so I only do F1. But ever since 2021 came out, i almost haven’t run online, simply because it’s the same old ****, different number on the box. 

Yeah, online Mode needs basically a system overhaul, i Simply play private leagues since public lobbies, ranked or not are so broken, from game and player perspective unfortunately

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@AlexTT I agree. Part for my neglect for the online side of the game comes from the rough experience it is. I was surprised by how long it took to get to a lobby and start the race proper. I'd be underwhelmed (and that's putting it mildly) if online was my jam.

Fortunately for me, the driving is solid and the AI seems to be way ahead of other titles.

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9 hours ago, NoZoMijie said:

If the brake points and new track settings are removed, what else is added in f1 2021?  For those who are full of questions.

@marioho has given a good summary, and as a PS5 owner I'd add significantly faster loading times and a 120 Hz mode. These plus the new handling model and improved AI performance make it a good step up over F1 2020 for me even without the new tracks. 

I've not tried Braking Point yet. Partly as it doesn't hugely appeal and partly as for what will basically be a one-time play through I may as well wait for issues with particularly the cut-scenes on PS5 to be resolved before I do.

Be aware that classic cars have been removed from the game though, along with the short tracks. The championship mode can't is sort of still present but it shares a single save with GP mode and so playing it prevents you playing any ad hoc GPs mid-season. Voice control also looks like it won't be possible on PS5 for this game.

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On 7/24/2021 at 3:57 AM, petro1319 said:

No.   No.  and... NO!!!   We should NOT have to know or expect issues on day 1 when we buy a game.  Why on earth should you as a consumer by something and EXPECT something to be wrong with it?  That's the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard.  It's this exact attitude why we are in this position as consumers.  We let these big companies walk all over us and they've already got our money; nothing we can do about it.  That's not right.  We should not have to accept the fact there will be issues.  In part I know we do because it's technology and things happen and we all have a degree to which we are willing to tolerate it; but the current state of this game (especially for XSX) tells me it wasn't ready to see the light of day. Not even close and when you look at the bug section it's not just that way on Xbox.  That's not acceptable.  We shouldn't be paying to test the game for them; it is their job and their responsibility to release a product that works at the most basic levels; this one doesn't. 

There's ZERO reason why should know or expect to know when I bought this game that I won't be able to load a game save.  There is no excuse that will make that acceptable to me; NONE!   There's ZERO reason why this game should be completely shutting down my console and ZERO reason why I should know, or ought to have known it would when I bought it.  Yet, here I am closing in on two weeks after I got the game still dealing with those issues while they count my money.  The exact position you are presenting is exactly what got us to this point and that to me is unacceptable.  IMO in it's current state this game belongs on the shelf with cyberpunk and not in the store's right now and I'll be having that exact chat with MS, EA and maybe even F1 themselves if I can find a way to track them down on Monday.  I've had enough.  I'm out of patience.  I'm tired of the "we're looking into it" line when at least the game save issue has already been fixed on PS4/PS5 and PC.  To top that off... if the game is simply shutting my console off completely, what's it actually doing to my nice new expensive console?  

We should expect, and know to expect that?  Give me a break; that's ridiculous.  What I should expect when buying a product is that it works and I can at least use it; I shouldn't spend $100 on something and go well... "I hope it's ok.  Oh, shoot.. it doesn't work.  Oh well. It's complicated & at least they tried. I guess i'll just play the little part that works decently; at least until it turns off my console automatically for me anyways" 

🙄

This! It’s a downright disgrace that this company has been getting away with releasing these unfinished games for years and I for one have had enough,I will complain to FOM and I will complain to the gaming industry regulator whoever that might be,this company is literally stealing our money and too many people are just letting it happen and making excuses for them! Would you buy a TV and keep it if only half the screen worked? Of course you wouldn’t so why should this be different don’t let these clowns steal your money.

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22 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

Lazy really isn't the right description for me. I'm confident the Codemasters staff all care about their game, want it to perform well and work hard to achieve this. The issue will likely more fall into the category of commercial/financial pressures limiting time and resources such that other things have to be prioritised. Possibly you've never had the same experience in your own career but I certainly have. 

They care up until the point they’ve got our money then they couldn’t care less.

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10 minutes ago, speeddemon8021 said:

They care up until the point they’ve got our money then they couldn’t care less.

Given we're talking about an annual release it would be extremely short-sighted if this were true. I don't think it is though.

Note that past experience is that the major issues will be fixed.

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10 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

Given we're talking about an annual release it would be extremely short-sighted if this were true. I don't think it is though.

Note that past experience is that the major issues will be fixed.

A little more transparency from CM would be welcomed by everyone.

A roadmap for patches would be great. Also some sort of list of issues that are being prioritised. It sounds like old xboxs have got it pretty rough.

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10 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

Given we're talking about an annual release it would be extremely short-sighted if this were true. I don't think it is though.

Note that past experience is that the major issues will be fixed.

Yea only to reappear in the next iteration,everything about this company screams shoddy and don’t care,even this website is cheap and nasty,If they cared they wouldn’t keep releasing games in an unfinished state,necessitating a raft of patches that break just as much as they fix year after year,if they cared they would respond to their consumer who is rightfully angry instead of maintaining radio silence whenever there is a game breaking issue,hell if I worked on a product and I had pride in my work I would try to defend it if people ran it down but you see and hear nothing from codemasters because they have already secured the bag.

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5 minutes ago, speeddemon8021 said:

Yea only to reappear in the next iteration,everything about this company screams shoddy and don’t care,even this website is cheap and nasty,If they cared they wouldn’t keep releasing games in an unfinished state,necessitating a raft of patches that break just as much as they fix year after year,if they cared they would respond to their consumer who is rightfully angry instead of maintaining radio silence whenever there is a game breaking issue,hell if I worked on a product and I had pride in my work I would try to defend it if people ran it down but you see and hear nothing from codemasters because they have already secured the bag.

So what is that product that you made were you are so proud about? Show us it's expensive and stylish website. I'm very curious what products you make that are so successful and 100% loved by it's users.  

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5 minutes ago, speeddemon8021 said:

Yea only to reappear in the next iteration,everything about this company screams shoddy and don’t care,even this website is cheap and nasty,If they cared they wouldn’t keep releasing games in an unfinished state,necessitating a raft of patches that break just as much as they fix year after year,if they cared they would respond to their consumer who is rightfully angry instead of maintaining radio silence whenever there is a game breaking issue,hell if I worked on a product and I had pride in my work I would try to defend it if people ran it down but you see and hear nothing from codemasters because they have already secured the bag.

And yet there have been posts from Codemasters staff on this forum over the last week. Yes we could definitely be being kept better informed but it's not that there has been zero response from them either. My bet is there are lots of staff having a hard time currently, working hard to try to resolve the issues. 

I'm in no way saying that there aren't big issues that need sorting ASAP, but a narrative that Codemasters staff don't care and aren't doing anything just doesn't stack up for me.

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On 7/23/2021 at 2:39 PM, RaphaelOne said:

Codemasters why the game place me in empty rooms many times in a row when the game is new and plenty of people play it daily .. WHY ????? There are sessions with some players playing and the game puts me in empty rooms. Sometimes it takes me 10 - 15 tries until I finally land in session with other players. 2020 was the same. What is going on ?

I’m with you mate. Our club has cancelled all league races til further notice coz it’s just too broke. We started testing for placement and ya can’t do that when the sound cuts out and the ffb pissis off mid sesh. Ridiculous. 

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F1 2020 is Unfinished Games yet😁

Impossible doubleheader setting, No Mugello, No Nürburgring, No Portimão, No Istanbul, No Imola, No Bahrain Outer.

And in F2 2020 in F2 2021, still before COVID calender. No doubleheader Austria & British, No Mugello, No Bahrain Outer.

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