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We need some tyre management. Tyres should be much much more sensitive. We know tyres is key factor in F1 but in game i never ever have issue. I can push like hell every lap but temperature is still easily stable. Never had problem with overheating or cold tyres. Tyres is totally important in F1 and should be done much better there is some small progress but still i cant feel that tyres peak especially on understeering. Good luck

Edited by Neomo
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I totally agree with you. The tires are the weapons you have to get under control. The teams with the cars who manages the tires well or who are able to get the right temps in tire, has overall good performance in the season. Besides all teams uses the tires different well. Some (like ferrari) can heat the tires fast and which is good in Monaco f.e., but could have problems with overheating and tire wear on other tracks. Other times (like Mercedes) have problems to heat the tire for a single lap but manage the temps good in a race. So this makes the car even more different compared to each other. 

I miss that in the actual f1 2021 but hope that this will be more focused in the next years. 

 

By the way: I noticed that the cars have lower tire temps this year. In Bahrain I set this tire pressures up this year for having mid-90 temps overall. In the last game we mostly drove with low pressure for the best grip. But this year I am not sure, which is the best way for grip: low temps (near under 90 or 90 degrees) and lower pressure or higher pressure and temps in mid 90? 

Edited by DonBlanko
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@DonBlanko lower pressures are the best setting for grip, always... until they are not haha!

This would be much easier if the game were less opaque about tyre temperatures. The correct adjustment for optimum grip vs tyre life depends on what section of the tyre we're seeing an elevated temperature. More realistic sim racers provide data for:

  • Inner and surface tyre temperatures
  • Outside, middle and inside sections temperatures

The ideal tyre pressure will be low enough to make the rubber literally grip the tarmac more firmly on the straights and give in correctly when cornering to increase the contact patch, in line with your camber setup. There's a reason for the teams to always push for lower pressures while Pirelli push for higher minimum pressures.

Lowering the pressure too much though (a deflated tyre) will see the sidewalls overheat, especially the inside section, while the middle section experience cooler temperatures.

Increasing the pressure will make for more rigid tyres, protecting them against over flex on medium and high speed corners. An overinflated tyre though will probably have the middle section hotter than the outside section and will have a negative impact on your overall performance as it will reduce your grip levels all around, but more critically when cornering. If the rubber refuses to hug the tarmac, you're unable to put more power down.

You are always subjected to overheated tyres, regardless of your pressure setup. If you're putting your tyres under a higher workrate than they can provide, they will overheat somehow. It just happens that they will overheat differently depending on the setup you're running.

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The only i have noticed is tyre temps drop right off during safety car period unless you aggressively keep them warm. Especially with the Hards, they drop to 70c and when the safety car period is over your a sitting duck.

Lack of marbles on the track as a GP progresses is something that i would like to see fixed.

 

Edited by dino78
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This years game they went on a good direction, but while there are some good handlers that take care of the wheel, many more really struggle to get it on the right temps, keep pace and control wear, it is really a ample spectre. The dropoff in performance has been increased this year too, and the SC now have an impact on tyre temps, which last year was easy to heat but didnt really cool down properly

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I agree. I've never found myself focused on tyre temperatures in the F1 game. There were some past iterations that caused overheating problems but it was manageable through the setup. I've always felt that in this game you can manage your tyres entirely through the setup and then your driving will have little to no impact on tyre wear and temperatures. It's probably 90/95% setup and 10/5% driving.

The only situations in which I had to seriously manage the tyres and adjust my driving were in dry-wet/wet-dry races. If the pressures are too low you will struggle with slicks on a wet track. If the pressures are too high you could have problems going from inters to slicks and in general with inters on a drying track. Besides those two extreme scenarios (that could be problematic in specific conditions and for a small amount of laps), I feel I never had to adjust my driving...

Edited by sirio994
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14 hours ago, marioho said:

@DonBlanko lower pressures are the best setting for grip, always... until they are not haha!

This would be much easier if the game were less opaque about tyre temperatures. The correct adjustment for optimum grip vs tyre life depends on what section of the tyre we're seeing an elevated temperature. More realistic sim racers provide data for:

  • Inner and surface tyre temperatures
  • Outside, middle and inside sections temperatures

The ideal tyre pressure will be low enough to make the rubber literally grip the tarmac more firmly on the straights and give in correctly when cornering to increase the contact patch, in line with your camber setup. There's a reason for the teams to always push for lower pressures while Pirelli push for higher minimum pressures.

Lowering the pressure too much though (a deflated tyre) will see the sidewalls overheat, especially the inside section, while the middle section experience cooler temperatures.

Increasing the pressure will make for more rigid tyres, protecting them against over flex on medium and high speed corners. An overinflated tyre though will probably have the middle section hotter than the outside section and will have a negative impact on your overall performance as it will reduce your grip levels all around, but more critically when cornering. If the rubber refuses to hug the tarmac, you're unable to put more power down.

You are always subjected to overheated tyres, regardless of your pressure setup. If you're putting your tyres under a higher workrate than they can provide, they will overheat somehow. It just happens that they will overheat differently depending on the setup you're running.

I totally agree with you and in theory it is all correct. But my question is, is this implemented in the game. I mean, is there a real noticeable effect of lower pressures and higher pressures in case of grip, tire wear and temps. What you said, Inner and surface sections of the tires are shown in the game. But I doubt that outside, middle and inside temps are implimented in the game. We cannot know, because tire wear is related to the tire itself. We can not see if the tire is worn just on the outisde. The same for the temps. We just have inner and surface tyre temps shown. So that details you mentioned is maybe correct in real life, but is not implimented in the game. 

So I ask myself, what changes from f1 2020 to f1 2021 we have in case of tire pressure and tire grip at all. Normally it is, like you said, that lower pressures can give you more tire grip (lower grip, when the temps are too low), but a higher tire wear and lower temps. The oppisite is when you choose higher tire pressures (higher temps, less grip (more grip, when the temps are perfect), maybe more topspeed, because of less tire on tarmac). In F1 2019 these things were almost not noticeable, and changing tire temps made no difference. in F1 2020 there was a difference betwen the tire pressures in case of tire grip. I almost drove with lower tire pressure, the temps were still in mid 90es or higher, but the grip was noticeable better with lower tire pressures.

In f1 2021 I am not sure, how tire pressure effects at all. I noticed in Bahrain, that I had noticeable low tire temps in practise, just about low 90, somtimes high 80. I was suprised. I was not sure, if the effect, of those temps is making less grip or if those temps are still okay for grip. For my understanding the best grip should be with mid 90 degrees. So I set the tire pressures up. I got mid 90 degrees (so tire pressure makes a difference in case of temps!) but I am not sure, if I get more grip or if I lose grip. And I am not sure, if I high 80 / low 90 degrees have an effect in case of grip related to mid 90 degrees. What degrees does it need here, to make any grip difference?

What are your expierences in F1 2021 (not real life)? 

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@DonBlanko I like doing my setups with a telemetry app to the side because I have a thing for data. Yes, I've noticed instances where raising the tyre pressures would result in less wear and overheating after sustained cornering and cases where increasing the pressure actually resulted in higher temps in circuits like Monza. I believe the physics are simulated alright. It is all consistent with the theory as far as I am concerned.

Now if the game simulates it in a realistic manner is anyone's guess.

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It’s funny how in real life they want to drive with the lowest pressure possible because of traction and grip, and how here we need to max it out to be quick and have the best grip😵💫

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21 minutes ago, marioho said:

@DonBlanko I like doing my setups with a telemetry app to the side because I have a thing for data. Yes, I've noticed instances where raising the tyre pressures would result in less wear and overheating after sustained cornering and cases where increasing the pressure actually resulted in higher temps in circuits like Monza. I believe the physics are simulated alright. It is all consistent with the theory as far as I am concerned.

Now if the game simulates it in a realistic manner is anyone's guess.

I really like your love for details of (setup) data. I noticed that in several posts from you. Maybe I should use a telemetry app, too. Are you allowed to tell me which App do you use or would this be unallowed advertisement? If I remember correct, here was a thread a few weeks ago, in which someone told about a new telemetry app for F1 2021. I don't know. Maybe I have to search this thread. 

But the last sentence you said, remembers me at the Q&A-Thread we had for F1 2020 last year, where all the Setup und Handling questions for the actual cars where answered by Codemasters. That was quiet interesting to read!

22 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

It’s funny how in real life they want to drive with the lowest pressure possible because of traction and grip, and how here we need to max it out to be quick and have the best grip😵💫

So you had the same expierence, that the tires seems to have lower temps this year ? I am not sure, by the way, if toe and camber also have effect in case of tire temps. In theory increased toe in and toe out should increase tire temps and tire wear too. But I haven't run enough laps to answer this question myself yet. 

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On 7/25/2021 at 12:42 PM, Neomo said:

We need some tyre management. Tyres should be much much more sensitive. We know tyres is key factor in F1 but in game i never ever have issue. I can push like hell every lap but temperature is still easily stable. Never had problem with overheating or cold tyres. Tyres is totally important in F1 and should be done much better there is some small progress but still i cant feel that tyres peak especially on understeering. Good luck

Yeah agree. I just went back and played F1 2019 and the tyres are much more sensitive to pushing and temps in that game. I totally cooked my front around abu dhabi trying to push for more than a lap and the car was almost underivable and couldn't push anymore.

Ever since last years game tyre temp/wear is not an issue feels like a time trial mode almost all the time 

Edited by TomAAA
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I don't think the tyre model is really simulated. Maybe partly. Sometimes you can drive carefully some laps and get e.g. 10% wear and the you drive like hell the same amount of laps and you get 10% wear. Something isn't really right. Same for some setup parts. There were parts last year where you found a good value and left it for all courses.

Handling of tyres is a core element of F1 racing. Without it, it will be enough fuel and full push through the race, like it was in the last games. There is no strategic element.

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53 minutes ago, DonBlanko said:

I really like your love for details of (setup) data. I noticed that in several posts from you. Maybe I should use a telemetry app, too. Are you allowed to tell me which App do you use or would this be unallowed advertisement? If I remember correct, here was a thread a few weeks ago, in which someone told about a new telemetry app for F1 2021. I don't know. Maybe I have to search this thread. 

But the last sentence you said, remembers me at the Q&A-Thread we had for F1 2020 last year, where all the Setup und Handling questions for the actual cars where answered by Codemasters. That was quiet interesting to read!

So you had the same expierence, that the tires seems to have lower temps this year ? I am not sure, by the way, if toe and camber also have effect in case of tire temps. In theory increased toe in and toe out should increase tire temps and tire wear too. But I haven't run enough laps to answer this question myself yet. 

If behind a safety car, warming the tyres is the easiest thing to do. Just spin the rears, and completely lock up the fronts, within 2 seconds your in the range without having to weave. 
 

no flatspots, nothing😂 funny also is they seem to wear just as hard behind the safety car as a normal round. Percentages look calculated per lap then how you (ab)use them.

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1 hour ago, AlexTT said:

It’s funny how in real life they want to drive with the lowest pressure possible because of traction and grip, and how here we need to max it out to be quick and have the best grip😵💫

Really? What has worked the best for me in the game are pressures in the lower range of the slider. In circuits with an unbalanced mix of corners like Catalunya (two very fast and demanding bends to the right with not enough strong bends to the left to compensate) I've found improvements in wear and max temps by protecting the outside tyres with an extra click or 2 of pressure. 

@DonBlanko there are a handful but the PXG F1 Telemetry app by user @Ender0042 has got me covered more than enough. It is the one I use the most for setups.

And I've found that camber has a significant impact on cornering grip while rear toe has a massive impact on your ability to quickly put power down on corner exits. 

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12 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

If behind a safety car, warming the tyres is the easiest thing to do. Just spin the rears, and completely lock up the fronts, within 2 seconds your in the range without having to weave. 
 

no flatspots, nothing😂 funny also is they seem to wear just as hard behind the safety car as a normal round. Percentages look calculated per lap then how you (ab)use them.

Im pretty sure that the tyre wear was made more by gameplay overall than being a true sim, not having graining, blistering and spots makes some actions more prevalent.

Now, i mildly disagree on wear in SC, because ive gained considerable production on my tyres by being economic during SC...sometimes enough to get a softer tyre on some tracks quicker than expected or extending their lifes enough to abuse the other set stint.

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23 minutes ago, Hichel18 said:

Im pretty sure that the tyre wear was made more by gameplay overall than being a true sim, not having graining, blistering and spots makes some actions more prevalent.

Now, i mildly disagree on wear in SC, because ive gained considerable production on my tyres by being economic during SC...sometimes enough to get a softer tyre on some tracks quicker than expected or extending their lifes enough to abuse the other set stint.

Like I said, it seems like it. It’s not like I’m spinning and locking all lap long, mostly just before the end of S2 just before SC comes in. In 2020 looked like it was based on lap but could be me.

@marioho, that’s the reason Pirelli made the tyres stronger again, and why they always raise the minimum psi lvls during a weekend. After Baku the minimum was raised in France out of fear the tyres would blow out again. The reason is the teams always drive with the lowest possible tyre pressure. 
 

I just did a test in TT and also different youtubers raised the lvls to the max because that supposed to be faster (which in reality is completely the oppisite of real life) and if I have to believe someone on what is supposed to be faster overall, I choose the drivers😜

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@AlexTT yep, I'm aware of the tug-and-pull fight between the teams and Pirelli on every GP. The usual change of compounds and/or minimum pressures are what make double headers fun, in my opinion.

TT is not a good indication for tyre setup, unfortunately, as the game will always maintain the tyres at optimum workrate in that mode. So no overheating. If you want an accurate test of how the game simulates tyre physics, it's on... well, any other game mode haha

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1 hour ago, marioho said:

@AlexTT yep, I'm aware of the tug-and-pull fight between the teams and Pirelli on every GP. The usual change of compounds and/or minimum pressures are what make double headers fun, in my opinion.

TT is not a good indication for tyre setup, unfortunately, as the game will always maintain the tyres at optimum workrate in that mode. So no overheating. If you want an accurate test of how the game simulates tyre physics, it's on... well, any other game mode haha

You’re true in a way, but nevertheless should a car with lowest pressure always give more grip and traction, then the other way around. More surface hits the road, more grip.

apart from the temperatures in TT is that it should not be possible that inflating your tyres to balloons, which should give less roll resistance thus less grip, give MORE grip and be faster then when you’re tyres are softer and should bite better in the road at any time.  
 

and when you look at the times set are all on balloons, maxed pressure. Whilst the difference in pressure is so big, it should never give the grip levels through slow parts of the track. Look at monaco, hungary even zandvoort where in S2 you want most grip, S2 baku, the sectors beeing set there on balloons should not be possible. But then again, most people in the top of the leaderboard are all using ABS, so i guess that negates more then we think. 
 

if without ABS is supposed to be faster, the list wouldn’t light up like a christmas tree with ABS icons

Edited by AlexTT
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To be honest, tyres being in the recommended range should not be deflated nor ballooned, being a safe zone and recommendation. Tyre grip seems negligible and the nice straight line speed shines with it. The right balance would make it interesting to find the lowest pressure possible to each track to have the best grip and speed. All that had even to take effect weather, track temperature and everything.

But, we have a simplified tyre simulation that it seems to not factor much things, then we have extreme setups made which doesn't care of the tyre at all, just give me speed. Running too low should possess structural risk as too high.

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My impression is that tyre pressures in the game are more of "balance it right and you'll be ok and balance it wrong and we'll chew you up". Meaning that in races, a bad tyre setup (which includes suspension geometry) will kill your stints.

Now if they're setting records with max pressures Codemasters should most definitely look into it as it doesn't seem – or at least should not be – the intended result.

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Impressions and the real deal are always far apart.

Ask any F1 driver, lowest possible tyre pressure which Pirelli prescribes, or 0,5PSI extra?

maybe except from Latifi and Mazespin every F1 driver will always go for the lowest possible pressure, because it simply gives more traction, overall grip, and doesn’t run too hot. 
 

there’s actually always nobody of the drivers who doesn’t go at the lowest possible. 
 

(like I said, I love to delve deep in the Technical aspect of F1 and it’s really interesting IMO do understand how and what works, I’m a geek if it comes to technical stuff😂)

Edited by AlexTT
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Haha by "impression" I meant "I'm as sure as I can he without actually putting it to the wire and testing".

Regarding real drivers, I'd not be so sure as different cars treat and wear their tyres (very) differently. A Haas or a Ferrari cannot be as performant with the same setup as an Alpha Tauri or a Mercedes. As a rule of thumb, yes, undoubtedly every team will run as low pressure as they can afford and, yes, the good teams will test Pirelli lower limits.

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By the way: Don't we have the choice to choose the tires you want to use in a GP before the GP starts? In career mode I can look at what tires I can use for the whole weekend, but I have no possibility to change it here anymore. I remember that it was possibile there in F1 2020 / 19, right before starting the GP overall. Where is this option gone? I don't want to have a medium everytime in Qualifying. 

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14 minutes ago, DonBlanko said:

By the way: Don't we have the choice to choose the tires you want to use in a GP before the GP starts? In career mode I can look at what tires I can use for the whole weekend, but I have no possibility to change it here anymore. I remember that it was possibile there in F1 2020 / 19, right before starting the GP overall. Where is this option gone? I don't want to have a medium everytime in Qualifying. 

Its fixed in real f1 now, so it is in the game

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