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Cars may be too fast


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After some weeks of playtime, I want to share my feedback about the driving side and the cars.
Almost everything regarding the game is great, I'm sure Codemasters are gonna solve the bugs, but I want to focus on the speed of the cars.
I find it a little bit unrealistic, the speeds that the cars are reaching are insane and faster than the ones in real life (for example in the game you have to take a perfect line in order to take Copse flat at Silverstone, which I never managed to do, and with a decent setup, but that's not a downforce related issue, the main problem is the straight line speed you reach before the corner, usually 10-15 kmh faster than the F1 pole lap). Due to this the laptimes are very fast, on some tracks like Spa, Baku, Canada and others the times are even faster than F1 2020's and that is a non sense to me since the total downforce has decreased and the laptimes in real life are 1 to 2 seconds slower than last year.
The main issue is that this amount of speed is unproportioned to the amount of downforce that the cars are producing, and this makes the cars very difficult to drive, unstable and very light, and the effect is amplified for controller users without assists (I drive both wheel and controller and I find it easier on the wheel even if I started using it just on F1 21).
I hope my feedback is useful, if someone has other examples feel free to add them.

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Because a lot of people use the t-cam, they are able to drive much faster than the real life cars. In order to make the AI more challenging, Codemasters appear to have increased their difficulty levels this year. This means AI times are a lot faster then the real drivers and; therefore, unrealistic. 

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12 minutes ago, Bauer said:

Because a lot of people use the t-cam, they are able to drive much faster than the real life cars. In order to make the AI more challenging, Codemasters appear to have increased their difficulty levels this year. This means AI times are a lot faster then the real drivers and; therefore, unrealistic. 

This has nothing to do with camera choices. The cars are just fundamentally faster than real life, which is already something that Codemasters are looking at although we don't know whether an adjustment will be made or not.

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The cars are faster in the game because people who play the game 24 hers a day need a challenge so to keep them happy they increased the speed . Most people who drive the fastest times use T- Cam because it is the easiest view to drive the  fastest , no matter how much you sycophants of the You tube boy racers like Tiamariaduckfest or whatever his gamer tag is  protest this  , it is a fact , I know this to be a fact because I am a lot quicker on a lap using Txxx - cam than I am in cockpit view and so do a lot of people that have tried both. None of you laughing boys will use it because you are not up to the job its as simple as that. LOL.

If the AI are going too fast for you then turn down the AI to a setting where you are racing at a level that suits your abilities , If that level is lower than other people  then you need to start finding out how to go faster by making the right choices with set ups and whatever is necessary like using the same cheats as other people use or whatever   If you have to turn the AI down to 50 so that you can keep up then that's what you have to do.

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1 hour ago, Exasperated said:

The cars are faster in the game because people who play the game 24 hers a day need a challenge so to keep them happy they increased the speed . Most people who drive the fastest times use T- Cam because it is the easiest view to drive the  fastest , no matter how much you sycophants of the You tube boy racers like Tiamariaduckfest or whatever his gamer tag is  protest this  , it is a fact , I know this to be a fact because I am a lot quicker on a lap using Txxx - cam than I am in cockpit view and so do a lot of people that have tried both. None of you laughing boys will use it because you are not up to the job its as simple as that. LOL.

If the AI are going too fast for you then turn down the AI to a setting where you are racing at a level that suits your abilities , If that level is lower than other people  then you need to start finding out how to go faster by making the right choices with set ups and whatever is necessary like using the same cheats as other people use or whatever   If you have to turn the AI down to 50 so that you can keep up then that's what you have to do.

Well said. I am **** at this game, but will adjust AI to my abilities, so about minus 23. I race cockpit view, which mean a track like COTA is almost impossible with the blind corners. People seem to forget F1 2021 is a GAME! Stop referring to ‘real life’. The only way to get real life experience is to be one of the 20 drivers on the F1 grid on 23 Sundays this year. Otherwise, it will always be a SIM. Trust me, SIMs will never get close to real life. I’m an air traffic controller and have played around with several ATC sims. NONE get even close to real life.

Just my opinion, back to my gin and tonic.

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3 hours ago, Exasperated said:

The cars are faster in the game because people who play the game 24 hers a day need a challenge so to keep them happy they increased the speed . 

That's just not true. My bet is most top drivers would prefer the in game times were closer to real life. Tom97 certainly does. Making the cars faster doesn't inherently increase the challenge either.

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Guys, just to inform you, I never talked about AI. AI speed is ok to me, I'm talking about the raw speed to the car. I'm one of the guys you mentioned here (call me tryhard or whatever) and I would really love  to be closer to real life speeds. I don't mind getting a low 40 (my pb) or a 42.5 at Spa if that's the limit of the car and mine

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2 hours ago, Retentive said:

Guys, just to inform you, I never talked about AI. AI speed is ok to me, I'm talking about the raw speed to the car. I'm one of the guys you mentioned here (call me tryhard or whatever) and I would really love  to be closer to real life speeds. I don't mind getting a low 40 (my pb) or a 42.5 at Spa if that's the limit of the car and mine

 

3 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

That's just not true. My bet is most top drivers would prefer the in game times were closer to real life. Tom97 certainly does. Making the cars faster doesn't inherently increase the challenge either.

Making the cars faster doesn't increase the challenge , what ? Go and drive at AI 110 (ultimate) chappie and then report back. I'd be interested to hear that it did'nt inherently increase the challenge in your opinion.

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3 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

That's just not true. My bet is most top drivers would prefer the in game times were closer to real life. Tom97 certainly does. Making the cars faster doesn't inherently increase the challenge either.

So they haven't increased the speed of the cars , so how are the cars in game beating the real life times. OP says Raw speed is too fast and creates unrealistic times  do they or don't they , why has this increase in speed too create more of a challenge each year been discussed else where on here by others?

12 minutes ago, Exasperated said:

 

 

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6 hours ago, PV75 said:

Well said. I am **** at this game, but will adjust AI to my abilities, so about minus 23. I race cockpit view, which mean a track like COTA is almost impossible with the blind corners. People seem to forget F1 2021 is a GAME! Stop referring to ‘real life’. The only way to get real life experience is to be one of the 20 drivers on the F1 grid on 23 Sundays this year. Otherwise, it will always be a SIM. Trust me, SIMs will never get close to real life. I’m an air traffic controller and have played around with several ATC sims. NONE get even close to real life.

Just my opinion, back to my gin and tonic.

Thanks for the support I am usually the lone ranger ,, like you said IT's JUST A GAME players constantly harping on about reality while driving around in T- Cam on a Wheel.

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7 hours ago, Exasperated said:

 

Making the cars faster doesn't increase the challenge , what ? Go and drive at AI 110 (ultimate) chappie and then report back. I'd be interested to hear that it did'nt inherently increase the challenge in your opinion.

This is about the CAR not the AI. Both human players and the AI are significantly faster than real life as a result.

Edited by Ultra3142
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Thinking about it, I think the gulf compared to real life may be more about the real F1 cars getting quite a bit slower this year, and the game not reflecting this. Rather than them having got faster. 

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2 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

This is about the CAR not the AI. Both human players and the AI are significantly faster than real life as a result.

Yes that's what the OP said , he doesn't want to set unrealistic times , If  he can't limit the cars speeds in game by running with max downforce and a all round poor set up and drive in cockpit view (if he already is'nt) then the only way to tame the cars speed  is by CM slowing them down , obviously.

As far as increased challenge goes I think you're right , increasing driving speed doesn't inherently increase the challenge. This is easy to prove by first driving a race at a setting of AI 0 and then competing in another race at the same track under the same conditions at AI 110 and of course the challenge while driving is exactly the same.

If the car that the player is using is faster than the AI drive then the challenge would be less , but I am guessing that isn't how it plays out in the game even when people are playing at the upper limits of the game.

Like Bauer pointed out if you want to bring the times down first port of call is start driving in cockpit view and set it up so that your view is as close to how a real driver sees the track ,none of that widescreen effect with the mirrors fully visible on a single screen set up.

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4 minutes ago, Dunky1980 said:

You also have to remember the tracks are not at accurate. So that will also have an effect on the Lap times. 

Yes but the disparity is worse than last year I think, for the same tracks.

I'll be honest I personally think it's impressive how close to reality the game can get.

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7 minutes ago, Exasperated said:

As far as increased challenge goes I think you're right , increasing driving speed doesn't inherently increase the challenge. This is easy to prove by first driving a race at a setting of AI 0 and then competing in another race at the same track under the same conditions at AI 110 and of course the challenge while driving is exactly the same.

I wasn't referring to the challenge vs the AI actually, more think in terms that it isn't inherently harder to drive the Mercedes than the Haas. 

Not what the thread is about but I do think most agree that the AI have got better too for the same AI level. Other than a few player's egos apparently being hurt I don't really see an issue there personally, as it just means there is more challenge available to the very best players. Although there is the issue of some AI cornering speeds apparently being unreasonably high to be possibly adjusted.

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4 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

I wasn't referring to the challenge vs the AI actually, more think in terms that it isn't inherently harder to drive the Mercedes than the Haas. 

Not what the thread is about but I do think most agree that the AI have got better too for the same AI level. Other than a few player's egos apparently being hurt I don't really see an issue there personally, as it just means there is more challenge available to the very best players. Although there is the issue of some AI cornering speeds apparently being unreasonably high to be possibly adjusted.

The AI speeds through corners have always been unreasonably high as they  obviously work at an optimum setup 99% of the time and they obviously have a form of traction control as they very rarely end up losing it at high speed. I cannot remember what year it was but I remember watching an on board AI drive during a qualifying session and the KERS/ERS was rapidly being deployed on and off  like an ABS system during cornering yet very little deployed on the straights. When the AI starts driving more like human beings and less like a programmed train that operates mainly on the racing line then players of the game will feel more challenged. That's unlikely to be happening any time soon, So people need to lower their expectations of how the game performs and just adapt to any flaws that the game has that are affecting them.

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Disagree I've never had this fast corner bug which makes them set ridiculous sector times before and I've played them since PS3 days. And difficult to adapt when you simply can't match them in a sector of a lap because of a bug . Turning the ai down doesn't work either as it not the whole lap it a few corners which is just poor programing .... And needs to be fixed as I don't expect to pay 60 pound for a racing game and find I can't race on properly on tracks with fast flowing corners.... 

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There's a lot of things that got mixed up in this thread.

When we talk about the speed of the car, we're talking about it's potential speed. If a real F1 car's potential speed is 340kph on a particular straight, you should never be able to go faster than that on the game. It's very hard to determine the exact potential speed of a real F1 car, but the polesitter usually does a good job at extracting every bit of pace out the car, so it's the best reference we have.

The AI difficulty only determines how much speed of the potential speed of the in game car is used. When you set the AI at 110 it extracts maybe 90% out of the car. It can never be at 100%, cause that would mean that the AI would be unbeatable. But even if it were set at 100%, it shouldn't be that much faster than the real F1's pole time. It should be a little faster, but we are talking about tenths of a second at maximum, not seconds.

The problem with the game is that it's potential speed is too high. We are able to set times that just aren't possible with the modern day cars. You can increase the potential speed with 50%, but it won't increase the difficulty for the players, cause we can go 50% faster aswell. Making the car faster is not the solution for a better challenge. Make the cars harder to drive might be a better one. But that won't happen, cause that would make it too hard for casual players.

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4 minutes ago, Falstojudilofa said:

There's a lot of things that got mixed up in this thread.

When we talk about the speed of the car, we're talking about it's potential speed. If a real F1 car's potential speed is 340kph on a particular straight, you should never be able to go faster than that on the game. It's very hard to determine the exact potential speed of a real F1 car, but the polesitter usually does a good job at extracting every bit of pace out the car, so it's the best reference we have.

The AI difficulty only determines how much speed of the potential speed of the in game car is used. When you set the AI at 110 it extracts maybe 90% out of the car. It can never be at 100%, cause that would mean that the AI would be unbeatable. But even if it were set at 100%, it shouldn't be that much faster than the real F1's pole time. It should be a little faster, but we are talking about tenths of a second at maximum, not seconds.

The problem with the game is that it's potential speed is too high. We are able to set times that just aren't possible with the modern day cars. You can increase the potential speed with 50%, but it won't increase the difficulty for the players, cause we can go 50% faster aswell. Making the car faster is not the solution for a better challenge. Make the cars harder to drive might be a better one. But that won't happen, cause that would make it too hard for casual players.

Increasing the speed of the players car by 50% means you will be arriving at a corner faster and your control of the car under braking will become more critical ; so I guess that would create a greater challenge , the AI would I assume do what it always has done and just fly round the corner on its tracks and sail off into the distance while you end up in the barrier or just get left behind and probably end up being lapped by the whole field in the same way that some one new to the game who plays on AI 30 would if they had a go at AI 110.

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3 minutes ago, Exasperated said:

Increasing the speed of the players car by 50% means you will be arriving at a corner faster and your control of the car under braking will become more critical ; so I guess that would create a greater challenge , the AI would I assume do what it always has done and just fly round the corner on its tracks and sail off into the distance while you end up in the barrier or just get left behind and probably end up being lapped by the whole field in the same way that some one new to the game who plays on AI 30 would if they had a go at AI 110.

I am assuming here that if they increase the speed of the AI and the players car by 50% in game that the AI is going to be using that extra speed and the player is going to have to try and keep up with the AI.

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3 minutes ago, AdamComer said:

Wow, some of these comments have just completely missed the point OP was trying to make.

No I think we all go that one , the conversation has moved on and now its developed into a discussion about challenge in the game in relation to speed that is obviously dictated by how fast the AI is able to get round the track , if its off topic that's too bad . If the cars are able to go faster in game than in real life its not the end of the world the OP was just making an observation.

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3 minutes ago, AdamComer said:

Wow, some of these comments have just completely missed the point OP was trying to make.

Completely agree, this is not a discussion about AI or cockpit cam or whatever, I’m talking about the speed of the car which for me is too much. FIY I usually drive on esports setups, 110 ai and t cam but no one should care since I was not talking about it. Some of the comments are off topic, I would love if someone else can post examples of tracks, corners or straights which are different to real life in order to help Codemasters with something for the better of everyone 

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4 minutes ago, Retentive said:

Completely agree, this is not a discussion about AI or cockpit cam or whatever, I’m talking about the speed of the car which for me is too much. FIY I usually drive on esports setups, 110 ai and t cam but no one should care since I was not talking about it. Some of the comments are off topic, I would love if someone else can post examples of tracks, corners or straights which are different to real life in order to help Codemasters with something for the better of everyone 

You drive in T- Cam . On a wheel or a pad?

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