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DiRT Rally - Flying Finland Update


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As i've done most of my V1-mileage on German military bases, i tested various V2 cars there first. While I was devastated that all my sets I've fine tuned for hours were simply deleted, the driving that followed nullified these negative feelings. 
It's a big change. New cars feel fantastic.
Focus: Has that lovely turn sharp turn in you're used to see from Colin's Onboards. Great fun to drive.
Impreza: Lovely balance, more planted than the Focus and probably a bit faster on Tarmac at least.
The feedback of the tyres through the wheel is much more pronounced and both feel more connected.
WRC2010: Lovely, more feedback through the front wheels, more confidence in the car.
80s RWD: Drifting the Sierra round the junctions felt more intuitive and maybe slightly less grippy than before. Yet still those cars regain grip far too quickly. 

Generally i'd say that V2 is a revelation

The Bad: One thing that irritates me though is the cars physics at speed. Sure it's less planted and dependent on downforce but the first few km I felt like the cars behaved like a "crab" through fast bends. Judging by the visuals I thought I had to counter steer a slide, because visually I was going sideways, but the rear did not lose any grip and the FFB did not tell me to, cause physically I wasn't in a slide. It was a strange experience. It felt like the car had some kind of center pivot point or as if there's some issues with the inertia front to rear. As I got used to it it felt okay, but it's definitely something the Devs should look into. 

FFB: To get the best feeling on Tarmac I've had to bump up my previous FFB settings by 30%.

Finland: Well, I'm yet to finish a single stage so I can't comment on them apart from saying they're a big challenge. Miss your lines slightly and you might get away with it, three-wheeling out of the ditch. Miss them slightly more and you're gone into the trees at a million miles an hour. Can't wait to get that OculusRift!

All in all the last couple of Updates have transformed the game and brought great diversity, challenge and realism to the already very well polished base. Hats off codies!
I agree on "The Bad": especially on tarmac, it feels like I'm weaving through corners like I have a central pivot in the car, it feels partly like I'm steering with my front AND rear wheels, I could feel the presence of this really well on stages from Germany and Monaco since I know the stages pretty well, it feels like I'm driving on soap, I have grip, but the car slides a bit wider then usual, I hope this explains it a bit from my side.
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Long time, no see. I was really looking forward to this update, especially v2 handling. QUESTION- is there any way to mod a tyre grip model as in previous versions? It used to come down to modyfing files for each country in cars>models>car_model>tuning, but now it only has a file for Germany. Thanks!
EDIT: Also I believe Impreza WRC 2001 didn't get 2001 interior upgrade, it uses 2000's era cockpit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI95PUn7Ayo
Here is a proper one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGtCYoBxp6Y
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League still isn't fixed.  :'(

Very disappointing you guys didn't fix this yet.

For the rest great update so far I tested it.
What changes are you looking for in leagues? Or are you saying the engineers still use up rounds during league rallies? (haven't tested it myself yet)
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just tried new update and i am very happy with it.. definatelly Finland is not so similar as i thought before trying , the surface is defferent , its faster with many jumps! Also the new 2000's cars are very good , dirty sound , good handling (i prefer focus) and the gravel's loud sound is back.. well done codies!
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Very good physics on the gravel. Grippy, but slidy. I'ts like RBR, but with actually good physics. :dizzy: 

However, as said, on tarmac something is very very wrong in V2. Cars have center pivot physics, they dont follow their track over 30-40 km/h. Loose, weird, unrealistic. It feels like CMR 3, 4 and 5 where cars were going and facing every way but straight. It's even visual in the replays. Rear stepping out. I tried driving monaco really neatly, hitting perfect apexes at precise speeds and the 2000 Focus is just loose on the central pivot. 2015 Mini is a bit better dues to more lateral grip but it's still there.
I think it has to do something with the tire physics. Low speed lateral grip is good, then there is a big void of lateral speed where the game lets a certain ammount of slip angle without any grip/speed penalty, and over that threshold, its starts to grip again when the speed is low again and the angle high, i.e. the hairpin when the speed wears off on the rear tire, or just the rear stepping out too much generally.

Get to the root of the problem and it will be good. :) (It was good before, or just expertly masked by the grip and downforce.)
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Slabator said:
Very good physics on the gravel. Grippy, but slidy. I'ts like RBR, but with actually good physics. :dizzy: 

However, as said, on tarmac something is very very wrong in V2. Cars have center pivot physics, they dont follow their track over 30-40 km/h. Loose, weird, unrealistic. It feels like CMR 3, 4 and 5 where cars were going and facing every way but straight. It's even visual in the replays. Rear stepping out. I tried driving monaco really neatly, hitting perfect apexes at precise speeds and the 2000 Focus is just loose on the central pivot. 2015 Mini is a bit better dues to more lateral grip but it's still there.
I think it has to do something with the tire physics. Low speed lateral grip is good, then there is a big void of lateral speed where the game lets a certain ammount of slip angle without any grip/speed penalty, and over that threshold, its starts to grip again when the speed is low again and the angle high, i.e. the hairpin when the speed wears off on the rear tire, or just the rear stepping out too much generally.

Get to the root of the problem and it will be good. :) (It was good before, or just expertly masked by the grip and downforce.)
Well put. We are quite a few that have pointed this out now. As you say, it's less pronounced in the 2010 cars, but it's still there.
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I have really enjoyed the challenge this update brings. Unlike many Finns here, I really don't know how Ouninpohja is supposed to look like in real life - I don't have a reference. That's why I haven't been bothered by the things like autumn setting or messing up the geography on some of the iconic places. However I do understand the discord some of the fellow countrymen have expressed because with real-life reference it can be really unsettling if you are expecting something else when approaching a corner. We can hope that Dirt Rally sells well and Codemasters actually find some time and resources to revisit adjust the existing stages to give them that additional few percents of realism.

Some people have complained that the flow in Finland is bad and difficult to deal with to go fast. I personally could tune in to the flow quite OK (at least with the 2001 Subaru) because my loud pedal foot has grown afraid of high speeds  :) Just ease off the gas for 10-20 % and make smooth steering actions and eventually you'll get there. Whether those edgy mega jumps are preferable over realism is a debate for another post. At least they are fun.

But yeah, the new cars, especially the Subaru are a damn blast on the fast gravel! It is so intuitive to take them through the bends and in my hands they actually feel much better than the 2010's which always felt like they lacked acceleration and top speed (I must note I don't really know how they are supposed to be or feel like, it's just a feeling you get when you compare cars from different eras).

And finally even with their rough edges, the new stages are great fun to drive and feel unique even though Wales already has some pretty fast places.
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Urokhtor said:
Oh right and forgot to mention that those ditches seem way too forgiving. You can often even ride over them and actually gain time instead of them punishing you.
agree, ditches are way too forgiving, also the consequences of crashing hard into trees or other obstacles should be more. I hope the damage model gets some more love in a future update.  
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Urokhtor said:
Oh right and forgot to mention that those ditches seem way too forgiving. You can often even ride over them and actually gain time instead of them punishing you.
agree, ditches are way too forgiving, also the consequences of crashing hard into trees or other obstacles should be more. I hope the damage model gets some more love in a future update.  
Hang on, let me screenshot my two puncures, obliterated cooling system and completely MISSING front right wheel from my Focus.
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Urokhtor said:
Oh right and forgot to mention that those ditches seem way too forgiving. You can often even ride over them and actually gain time instead of them punishing you.
agree, ditches are way too forgiving, also the consequences of crashing hard into trees or other obstacles should be more. I hope the damage model gets some more love in a future update.  
Hang on, let me screenshot my two puncures, obliterated cooling system and completely MISSING front right wheel from my Focus.
got 2 punctures also , but you shouldnt be able  to carry on with a frontal crash into a tree..  currently you can... the sim should simulate immdiate engine breakdown after maybe 50 seconds when cooling system is totally broken...
 
the Sim is very nice as is, but a tweaked damage model would increase immersion.
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I actually caught a rear left puncture from a jump on Kailajärvi...the one right after the big jump through the gate. Landing in the middle of the road.
Amazingly, it happened twice in a row, on successive tries through the stage  :#
So I'm not worried about the ditches or trees at all. I'm just happy every time the car does NOT disintegrate and snap in half on one of those jumps  :D
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bogani said:
As i've done most of my V1-mileage on German military bases, i tested various V2 cars there first. While I was devastated that all my sets I've fine tuned for hours were simply deleted, the driving that followed nullified these negative feelings. 
It's a big change. New cars feel fantastic.
Focus: Has that lovely turn sharp turn in you're used to see from Colin's Onboards. Great fun to drive.
Impreza: Lovely balance, more planted than the Focus and probably a bit faster on Tarmac at least.
The feedback of the tyres through the wheel is much more pronounced and both feel more connected.
WRC2010: Lovely, more feedback through the front wheels, more confidence in the car.
80s RWD: Drifting the Sierra round the junctions felt more intuitive and maybe slightly less grippy than before. Yet still those cars regain grip far too quickly. 

Generally i'd say that V2 is a revelation

The Bad: One thing that irritates me though is the cars physics at speed. Sure it's less planted and dependent on downforce but the first few km I felt like the cars behaved like a "crab" through fast bends. Judging by the visuals I thought I had to counter steer a slide, because visually I was going sideways, but the rear did not lose any grip and the FFB did not tell me to, cause physically I wasn't in a slide. It was a strange experience. It felt like the car had some kind of center pivot point or as if there's some issues with the inertia front to rear. As I got used to it it felt okay, but it's definitely something the Devs should look into. 

FFB: To get the best feeling on Tarmac I've had to bump up my previous FFB settings by 30%.

Finland: Well, I'm yet to finish a single stage so I can't comment on them apart from saying they're a big challenge. Miss your lines slightly and you might get away with it, three-wheeling out of the ditch. Miss them slightly more and you're gone into the trees at a million miles an hour. Can't wait to get that OculusRift!

All in all the last couple of Updates have transformed the game and brought great diversity, challenge and realism to the already very well polished base. Hats off codies!
You explain the crab/central pivot point perfectly. This is also how I feel on tarmac. It's a very strange sensation.
THIS!! This...  :s  :(

This is exactly whats been bugging me since the first minute I played with the new V2 physics after v.08 update. I somewhat have to agree with @GusPerez when he said it was arcade + assistance.

 It lost a huge chunk of challenge. Ok that we got less grip from downforce, but it is just almost impossible to spin a car now! When I figured out what had changed, I though "hmmm, the 80s RWD got the new physics. Lets try it with my favorite combo: The M3 and Monty".

And there it was! I was going full throttle mid hairpin and the car just kept doing the drift!! Just counter steared and it was on its track again. If I did that with the previsous physics, it was 100% absolutely positive spin. Would have the car facing the wrong way.

Then I got disappointed. It was one of the BEST REWARDS to perform a hairpin drift with the M3 because man, it would fight like I was mounted in a pig! Even if I did let the throttle go, it wouldn't recover because it was already out of control... now I just release the gas, counter steer and tadaaa... back to business.

Afterwards I though "well, the Grp B 80s didn't had any change, lets try the 037". Spun in the first corner.

It feels very very strange now. It lost a lot of that rewarding feeling of "wow, I did some pretty good driving there!". Plus, the cars feels all over the place. I'm having to start turning a little earlier, as if the car had more weight, and the car, when exiting the corner, got very unpredictable.

The fact it got more unpredictable per se isn't an issue at all. But more unpredictable and more forgiving is just killing my reward.

Oh, and the krab effect: Just watch how the focus moves in this CMR2 intro and you will get it. Not saying it just like that, but it leans a little bit to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIRluy2OHys

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I noticed near the beginning of Kontinjarvi, the 2x "3 left". When driving, it looks and feels like I have a nice slide going around each corner. When I watch the replay, there's no sliding or sideways action, just looks like a circuit racer taking a typical corner. On tarmac, while it is controllable, it feels/looks like it just slides around corners whether it's a 2 or a 6. And I agree about the ditches in Finland, they do see too forgiving.
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Finland:
The Finnish stages are both spectacular and a massive step forward.  The cars are now really drivable too, so this should make for great times.  BUT, I find it impossible to really get the bit between the teeth and push hard in Finland.  Driving at 8 tenths gets you through the stage, but isn't really getting the blood pumping.  
To compare, driving the ouninpohja stage on RSRBR really lets you find a flow and push hard, really hard!!  When you can see something that at least hints at your course over series of jumps, dips and bumps & corners, you can really 'be brave'!!  The car jumps, goes light, squats and moves around, this takes a lot of predictive driving & reading the road, & when you get it right, the reward is immense!  
At this point, I haven't had that feeling with D:R.  On the finnish stages, the pacenotes really aren't enough to guide you through a lot of the stages, & I don't mean because of the mis-timings.  The notes are actually more detailed in D:R than any other rally game to date.  Its the extended air time.  Crests are generally blind, the road disappears off to either side from beneath you when you are 10 feet in the air and you cant do anything about it, you certainly cant 'drive' your way back out of it!!  I think the only way to be fast on the Finnish stages, is experience, to learn them off by heart & know them inside out, being a game with a reset button, many users will get to that point easily, but its not something a rally driver can do.  One recce run at a reduced speed is all they get, the driver is reading the road as he goes, with the co-drivers pace-notes for guidance.

We used to run an RSRBR Ouninpohja challenge on a local Rally forum & the fastest man on the forum always - surprise surprise, was an actual rally driver!  Im not so sure a real driver could pick D:R Finland up and play it like a virtual stage in the same way.  The V2 cars are certainly a lot more intuitive, but I'm not sure the Finnish Stages are.  :(


Crab Effect:
Does anyone else think a strong rear diff setting worsens the 'crab effect'?  I reduced rear diff lock 1 click and the car didn't seem as bad.  But what's strange is, the only time I have experienced it, was on wet gravel (everyone else seems to sense it on tar).

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After driving all the Finland stages multiple times, it really is evident that Codemasters version of Ouninpohja is an arcade version of the real thing. Exaggerated jumps, low ditches you can drive on, hard as a rock advertising banners, it's all there. You can get the best Ouninpohja experience with the old V1 cars, as they seem more real than v2 cars. That should already tell that elevations are off.  In my mind they have made better job, realistic wise, with other events.  Mod support would be great, as the base is already pretty good.  
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I'm not agree, the cars in V2 handling looks and drives better than the V1. The car feels a lot better in all surfaces. And the jumps are pretty well done. For me it's a perfect update. Only i would change is the lateral grip in all surfaces. The car don't slide, even if i do full throttle!! I think the car just needs to be more "radical" or "nervous", and less grip when i put throttle or handbrake, the car needs to slide alone! without any power, by the inertia (reference to all RWD cars).
Bye! 
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I just watches Meekes onboard there, lasts nearly 17 minutes.  I would estimate that he was full 4 wheels off the ground for no more than 6 seconds total.  Yes, the car goes light every few seconds for most of the first half of the stage, but its still in some sort of contact with the ground to some degree and controllable.  Most crests can be seen beyond and blind corners don't cause his car to literally take to the sky, so the driver adjustment and maneuverability is still there

Its more rewarding to be in control of a light car, than to be a passenger of an airborne one (with a bill-board dead ahead)

I would guess that if you dialled the gradient of the jumps down to even 45% of what they are, with the cars handling like they do, Finland would be a sim-rally dream!

I predict more of this critique once the initial honey-moon period fades & players get into the game properly this weekend
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xavivg said:
I'm not agree, the cars in V2 handling looks and drives better than the V1. The car feels a lot better in all surfaces. And the jumps are pretty well done. For me it's a perfect update. Only i would change is the lateral grip in all surfaces. The car don't slide, even if i do full throttle!! I think the car just needs to be more "radical" or "nervous", and less grip when i put throttle or handbrake, the car needs to slide alone! without any power, by the inertia (reference to all RWD cars).
Bye! 
100% agree on a grip. Tested in finland, cannot throw a car into a tight corner and powerslide since the car has no inertia and accelerates immediately into direction wheels are pointing.
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