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Drivers who need nerfing or boosted


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Was playing last night and realised there are a couple of drivers who need nerfing or bumping up.

1. The obvious one for me....Bottas. After 8 rounds in my career mode save season 1 the guy is over 70 points clear ! Lewis is always p3 or p4 so whether they have swapped them around in the coding or something I don't know 

2. Gasly. Needs bumping up. He is always getting through to Q3 in real life, he is just a bit meh so far

 

3. Verstappen definitely needs a boost. I know the performance patch will help as red bull aren't fast enough but even so, he should be quicker than he is currently

 

4. Anyone else finding Sainz and ricciardo being absolutely destroyed by their teammate?

 

I know this could all change with the performance patch but just a few observations from my career mode. 

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31 minutes ago, LH44Wilson said:

4. Anyone else finding Sainz and ricciardo being absolutely destroyed by their teammate?

Agree on the most part except for this, this is actually realistic for this season. Lando and Charles are dominating Dan and Carlos. Real life stats for this year:

Lando vs Ric

Q-8-3

R- 9-1

Fastest Laps 8-2

Leclerc vs Saniz

Q- 8 - 3

R- 6- 3

Fastest Laps 6-3

(Leclerc even has 2 poles this year remember)

Edited by TomAAA
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24 minutes ago, LH44Wilson said:

Was playing last night and realised there are a couple of drivers who need nerfing or bumping up.

1. The obvious one for me....Bottas. After 8 rounds in my career mode save season 1 the guy is over 70 points clear ! Lewis is always p3 or p4 so whether they have swapped them around in the coding or something I don't know 

2. Gasly. Needs bumping up. He is always getting through to Q3 in real life, he is just a bit meh so far

 

3. Verstappen definitely needs a boost. I know the performance patch will help as red bull aren't fast enough but even so, he should be quicker than he is currently

 

4. Anyone else finding Sainz and ricciardo being absolutely destroyed by their teammate?

 

I know this could all change with the performance patch but just a few observations from my career mode. 

Agree with all of this except for Ricciardo (haven't really noticed Sainz) - RIC's regularly getting podiums for me and qualifying ahead of Norris a lot into the 2nd or 3rd row, when IRL that just isn't happening. After Bottas, the obvious culprit 😁, Gasly was my next thought. He definitely needs a boost, or Alpha Tauri needs a big boost at least. Aston Martin *perhaps* needs a slight nerf, not sure.

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33 minutes ago, LH44Wilson said:

Was playing last night and realised there are a couple of drivers who need nerfing or bumping up.

1. The obvious one for me....Bottas. After 8 rounds in my career mode save season 1 the guy is over 70 points clear ! Lewis is always p3 or p4 so whether they have swapped them around in the coding or something I don't know 

2. Gasly. Needs bumping up. He is always getting through to Q3 in real life, he is just a bit meh so far

 

3. Verstappen definitely needs a boost. I know the performance patch will help as red bull aren't fast enough but even so, he should be quicker than he is currently

 

4. Anyone else finding Sainz and ricciardo being absolutely destroyed by their teammate?

 

I know this could all change with the performance patch but just a few observations from my career mode. 

In terms of car performance the Red Bull car definitely needs a boost while McLaren needs a nerf. 

The RBR car only has marginally more rear downforce than Merc at the start but 2-3kph slower due to the higher drag and lower engine power, but down the line Mercedes will have a lot more rear downforce when both teams are maxed out and still faster than RBR in terms of top speed.

For McLaren, they're still having the same drag value as last year's game. They had a low drag car last year just like Renault and AlphaTauri to compensate their lack of power in the game, but since this year McLaren had much more power with the Merc engine they should get rebalance yet they haven't, which is why McLaren seem so OP atm. 

Edited by DRTApophis
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Boost: Alonso, Ocon, Russell and Sainz pace. Also a buff to Alonso's racecraft.

Nerf: Bottas, Bottas and Bottas. But in all seriousness it he avoids the nerfhammer after Hungary I'll want to know how much his agent is paying CM. Slight pace nerf for Tsunoda maybe too.

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Imho its quite obvious that a lot of this is still due to 2020 settings / stats, eventhough we have seen shiny cards with new 2021 driver stats. Lets hope the performance patch comes soon and does what we would expect.

I am still convinced there should be some kind of voting in the community, which driver has to receive ups and downs, so that Codemasters get a base level they can work from. As it stands now, too many drivers / stats are too far off reality (mostly Bottas who is the king of myteam mode whereas Hamilton does not get going). I might be able to work out an excel sheet with all the stats we could commonly work on, then again we would only be frustrated if the results were ignored due to licensing or whatever.

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12 minutes ago, Wynterdust said:

Boost: Alonso, Ocon, Russell and Sainz pace. Also a buff to Alonso's racecraft.

Nerf: Bottas, Bottas and Bottas. But in all seriousness it he avoids the nerfhammer after Hungary I'll want to know how much his agent is paying CM. Slight pace nerf for Tsunoda maybe too.

In most cases within the game, it seems like Lewis can only win against Bottas by chance, Bottas could still quite consistently out-race and out-qualified Lewis no matter how small the margin was. I know Bottas wasn't exactly slow in real life, but it's quite obvious that their stats are probably mixed up even until now in 2021. 

I'm not a Lewis fan at all, but I still wish him to act like a final boss in the game for me to overcome, not Bottas, he's suppose to be just a good wingman. 

Edited by DRTApophis
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9 minutes ago, DRTApophis said:

I'm not a Lewis fan at all, but I still wish him to act like a final boss in the game for me to overcome, not Bottas, he's suppose to be just a good wingman. 

I could not have put that better you nailed it.

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39 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

I might be able to work out an excel sheet with all the stats we could commonly work on

A little off topic here, forgive me - I will give a short example, why this is a rather useless task to approach. Checking the in game experience ratings of the top 3 drivers in game, you end up with:

  1. Räikkönen 99
  2. Alonso 99 
  3. Hamilton 92

On the experience stat, the official EA F1 2021 website reads as follows (quote): "Experience equals time on the track – easy! This number comes from the real-life races the driver has entered, and the bar here is a high one, with Alfa Romeo’s Kimi Raikkonen leading the charge with the maximum of 99.  In F1® 2021, the higher this number, the more resource points the driver will pick up for your team." (/end quote)

So - "real life races the driver has entered" plus "Kimi leading the charge with the maximum" - that trnslates into easy math, no? Kimi has a record of 343 F1 grand prix, 343 / 99 = 3,4646 Looking at Alonso the same formula gives 325 / 3,4646 = 93,81 Whereas Hamilton calculates 277 / 3,4646 = 79,96. Rounded for in game stats this looks like:

  1. Räikkönen 99
  2. Alonso 94 
  3. Hamilton 80

For comparison only, the driver with the least experience in grand prix would be Tsunoda with 11 races entered, thus 11 / 3,4646 = 3,18 in game this would be experience value "3" while codies give him "46". So, either Tsunoda has raced outside F1 for many many races with his young age of 21 years, and all this counts for in game experience stats (his wikipedia career summary has 100 races listed outside F1, by the way). For the record: Kimi only has 46 races recorded outside F1, so there seems to be an argument...

The wording on the homepages indicates this, by using the term "races" and not "grand prix". So you might say that my calculation is wrong, and Codemasters is correct, because IRL Hamilton has driven so many more races outside F1 than Alonso or Räikkönen have. However, we all know that Alonso has races in LeMans, with IndyCars, and that Kimi has quite a long Rally record. So, where are Lewis pre- or outside F1 races, which are so many more than the ones of these other 2 drivers? Wikipedia say he has 109 races outside F1, whereas Alonso has surprisingly low 39 races recoded outside F1.

Recalculating with all races according to career summaries: Kimi (343+46) / 99 = 3,9292 | Alonso (325+39) / 3,9292 = 92,64 | Lewis (277+109) / 3,9292 = 98,24 | Tsuoda (11+100) / 3,9292 = 28,25

  1. Räikkönen 99
  2. Alonso 93 
  3. Hamilton 98
  4. Tsunoda 28

So, whatever the formula for the experience stat is, it is neither grand prix starts, nor is it career starts as the wording on the EA homepage would suggest!

It rather seems to me there is some kind of base value hidden in those. in order to get numbers closer together than the real stats would allow. If so, I dont think its too useful to start an effort and dig out all the numbers of all drivers and make a suggestion, or have a forum vote for stats, because for whatever reason, the stats Codemasters will give us will differ from that - big time!

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1 hour ago, DRTApophis said:

In most cases within the game, it seems like Lewis can only win against Bottas by chance, Bottas could still quite consistently out-race and out-qualified Lewis no matter how small the margin was. I know Bottas wasn't exactly slow in real life, but it's quite obvious that their stats are probably mixed up even until now in 2021. 

I'm not a Lewis fan at all, but I still wish him to act like a final boss in the game for me to overcome, not Bottas, he's suppose to be just a good wingman. 

I get the feeling the AI teams still get the personnel facility bonuses. In Merc's case it would essentially mean both Hamilton and Bottas are at 100 so itll always be a coin flip, same reason we see Perez very close to Verstappen despite the stat difference.

Personally, I think they need to ditch the personnel facility or make it so instead of a permanent boost, it gives a chance of a stat boost appearing in the team activities or events. That, or make it so stat bonuses from facilities and activities go over the limit. So Hamilton with a +10 pace would actually have 108 pace and not just 100. Would also give more incentive to paying the 20mil for him. If you just base your second driver off stats, why spend 20mil on Hamilton when you can spend 6mil on Gasly, Norris or Alonso and still get 100 stats on everything? Or better still, 4mil on Button or Rosberg.

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21 minutes ago, Wynterdust said:

I get the feeling the AI teams still get the personnel facility bonuses. In Merc's case it would essentially mean both Hamilton and Bottas are at 100 so itll always be a coin flip, same reason we see Perez very close to Verstappen despite the stat difference.

Personally, I think they need to ditch the personnel facility or make it so instead of a permanent boost, it gives a chance of a stat boost appearing in the team activities or events. That, or make it so stat bonuses from facilities and activities go over the limit. So Hamilton with a +10 pace would actually have 108 pace and not just 100. Would also give more incentive to paying the 20mil for him. If you just base your second driver off stats, why spend 20mil on Hamilton when you can spend 6mil on Gasly, Norris or Alonso and still get 100 stats on everything? Or better still, 4mil on Button or Rosberg.

Interesting, this might actually be the case.

Personally I really don't like how the personnel facility is implemented in the game, a straight boost to driver stats just seem too OP and one-dimension. Also, I think the base stats for all drivers are simply set too high, there should be a bigger gap to what's consider "max out", or else the personnel facility is simply making every F1 driver the same person with "all 100" stats, which made things even flatter than it already is.

Or like you've said, there shouldn't even be a limit, let them go above 100, it'll surely make the most expensive driver in the market actually worth the price.

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2 hours ago, TomAAA said:

Agree on the most part except for this, this is actually realistic for this season. Lando and Charles are dominating Dan and Carlos. Real life stats for this year:

...

Leclerc vs Saniz

Q- 8 - 3

R- 6- 3

Fastest Laps 6-3

(Leclerc even has 2 poles this year remember)

Looks like you're not counting Hungary as part of the calculation? Both Ferrari drivers have both been present for 10 of the 11 races.

Also a real stat for this year (thus far): Leclerc on 80 points, Sainz on 83.

Edited by diderooy
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I've done a few DriverCareer and MyTeam first season saves now but can't remember who was better than whom off-hand. I'll detail my current MyTeam first season as i've just finished Abu Dhabi and compare against real life. 

 

Ferrari - Sainz has done better than I thought he would in real life, but it's hard to take away from the fact that he's only outperformed Charles once and that was at France. I think Charles is underrated in the game anyway as he's most likely the third best on the grid in equal machinery. In the game, Charles is better than Carlos but not by much. I think they've got it okay. 

McLaren - Norris has had the measure of Danny Ric in every real-life race and I find their ratings tricky to balance.  Norris therefore has to be above Danny Ric, yet Carlos was always ahead of Lando.  So, either Carlos gets a major bump to be above Lando that he shouldn't get, or Lando gets nerfed. If Lando gets nerfed, then so does Danny Ric. So you'd have Charles at 88, Sainz at 87, Norris at 86 and Danny at 85.  Danny is better than an 85 driver so it's where the focus stat should come in.... but it hasn't.  I mean, the default stats are awful anyway as Lando isn't the second coming of Christ yet but his stats say he is. I may be being too harsh as he's dominated the middle of my first MyTeam season. So, either the focus stat needs utilising better, or an adaptability stat where it judges how long it takes to get used to a new car. 

Haas - Mazepin and Mick are quite equal on my game whereas, Mazepin has only got close to Mick at Silverstone in real life.  He was slower than Mick, who just couldn't get past. So Mick up, I guess? Maz can't really go down anymore. 

Red Bull - Perez was generally better than Max for me before the last patch. I don't think they've actually done anything to him in that patch but his pace has gone off a cliff. He was winning races and getting 2nds and 3rds. After that, he's finishing either 5th or 8th. No idea why.  Max is underrated on mine. Finishing 4th to 6th on average.  Maybe down to the Red Bull car but it spent a decent time at the top of the performance index.  In real life, there's only been one session out of the entire season that I thought Perez was close and I think it was Imola qualifying. 

Alpine - Ocon didn't score a single point in my first season of MyTeam. Not even one.  Alonso is usually on the fringes of points but I think he's slightly underrated.   Again, could be the car that's the problem. in real life, i'd say Alonso has the edge. 

Aston Martin - Vettel got 57 points, Stroll got three.  There was also a Stroll Train sensation (akin to Trulli in real life) where he'd fall back from the car in front but nobody could overtake him easily. When they finally do, they zoom off into the distance. In real life, it's closer. Vettel again, maybe marginally better, but Stroll isn't embarrassing himself (ignoring Hungary and a few duff quali sessions)

Alfa Romeo - They actually got this right. Gio did better in qualifying but Kimi did better in the races. 

Williams - George was awful. Beat Latifi 13-7 in Quali though. Yet in the races he was 17-3 up, I think. Despite that, it's because they were so far off the rest of the pack. I think this is mainly a car issue but Russell didn't look all that much better than Latifi. Who, by the way, was a mobile chicane.  I'd say both are underrated in the game.   In real life, George is better but Latifi is looking closer. Still a way off though. 

Alpha Tauri - Gasly got 15 points so he's not quite right yet and Yuki got 9. Which is okayish.   Yuki seems really fast in comparison to real life but he's just moved to Mercedes so he's about to get Super-Bottas'd. Poor guy.  Gasly is so unlucky Red Bull have it in for him or he'd be in that seat next year. Yuki has flashes of speed but hasn't really looked on 'the level' yet.  He's in trouble for the year after next with Vips and Lawson coming through. Then Hauger, and maybe Doohan and Edgar later. Not Daruvala, he's toast. But definitely Vips, Lawson and Hauger. 

Mercedes - Started off well enough. Bottas was generally poor until the summer break. Then, after Netherlands...pure dominance. In fact, he won 7/8 final races and only didn't win Japan because he did an extra pit stop for damage.  Hamilton started off like a freight train then there was a glitch in Britain where he won the race yet was classified as a lap down in last. After that, he just finished second all the time, not matter who won. 

 

Next season lineups are interesting;

Merc - Bottas and Yuki (poor, poor Yuki). (Lewis is a free agent, no idea why)

Red Bull - Max and Perez

McLaren - Norris and Danny Ric

Ferrari - Leclerc and Sainz

Alpine - Russell and Zhou (Maybe Mercedes loan all their youth to Alpine?  Zhou is a nice bit of realism... although he's not good enough to progress much in real life)

Aston - Ocon and Stroll (Ocon is still Mercedes backed. Could be realistic and close..ish)

Alpha Tauri - Alonso and Gasly (A strong lineup for Gasly and his young driver test rookie partner)

Alfa Romeo - Gio and Mick (Not actually unrealistic. I think Gio will edge it but might be close)

Haas - Mazepin and Markelov (Suits the car livery)

Williams - Shwartzman and Latifi (I think this might be close actually)

Mine - Me and Coulthard (chose an icon to minimise the amount of driver transfers, i'd thought. Started off with Alesi)

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17 hours ago, diderooy said:

Looks like you're not counting Hungary as part of the calculation? Both Ferrari drivers have both been present for 10 of the 11 races.

Comes from the stat page where they don't include mechanical problems as the driver was not responsible, so to get a true reflection of driving. Also points don't always reflect performance, just look at last weekend Leclerc got wiped out by stroll through no fault of his own, while sainz got a 'podium' because Vettel got DQ'd. 

Edited by TomAAA
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18 hours ago, Schneehase said:

A little off topic here, forgive me - I will give a short example, why this is a rather useless task to approach. Checking the in game experience ratings of the top 3 drivers in game, you end up with:

  1. Räikkönen 99
  2. Alonso 99 
  3. Hamilton 92

On the experience stat, the official EA F1 2021 website reads as follows (quote): "Experience equals time on the track – easy! This number comes from the real-life races the driver has entered, and the bar here is a high one, with Alfa Romeo’s Kimi Raikkonen leading the charge with the maximum of 99.  In F1® 2021, the higher this number, the more resource points the driver will pick up for your team." (/end quote)

So - "real life races the driver has entered" plus "Kimi leading the charge with the maximum" - that trnslates into easy math, no? Kimi has a record of 343 F1 grand prix, 343 / 99 = 3,4646 Looking at Alonso the same formula gives 325 / 3,4646 = 93,81 Whereas Hamilton calculates 277 / 3,4646 = 79,96. Rounded for in game stats this looks like:

  1. Räikkönen 99
  2. Alonso 94 
  3. Hamilton 80

For comparison only, the driver with the least experience in grand prix would be Tsunoda with 11 races entered, thus 11 / 3,4646 = 3,18 in game this would be experience value "3" while codies give him "46". So, either Tsunoda has raced outside F1 for many many races with his young age of 21 years, and all this counts for in game experience stats (his wikipedia career summary has 100 races listed outside F1, by the way). For the record: Kimi only has 46 races recorded outside F1, so there seems to be an argument...

The wording on the homepages indicates this, by using the term "races" and not "grand prix". So you might say that my calculation is wrong, and Codemasters is correct, because IRL Hamilton has driven so many more races outside F1 than Alonso or Räikkönen have. However, we all know that Alonso has races in LeMans, with IndyCars, and that Kimi has quite a long Rally record. So, where are Lewis pre- or outside F1 races, which are so many more than the ones of these other 2 drivers? Wikipedia say he has 109 races outside F1, whereas Alonso has surprisingly low 39 races recoded outside F1.

Recalculating with all races according to career summaries: Kimi (343+46) / 99 = 3,9292 | Alonso (325+39) / 3,9292 = 92,64 | Lewis (277+109) / 3,9292 = 98,24 | Tsuoda (11+100) / 3,9292 = 28,25

  1. Räikkönen 99
  2. Alonso 93 
  3. Hamilton 98
  4. Tsunoda 28

So, whatever the formula for the experience stat is, it is neither grand prix starts, nor is it career starts as the wording on the EA homepage would suggest!

It rather seems to me there is some kind of base value hidden in those. in order to get numbers closer together than the real stats would allow. If so, I dont think its too useful to start an effort and dig out all the numbers of all drivers and make a suggestion, or have a forum vote for stats, because for whatever reason, the stats Codemasters will give us will differ from that - big time!

Of all the stats to pull apart, Experience is the most bizarre one. That, and awareness anyway. Bottas - 99 🙄

They do say the formulas are weighted based more on recent events so that's probably why there doesn't seem to be any intrinsic measurement that works. For example, Kimi and Alonso both started in 2001 and think of how many car regulation iterations we've been through since then. Does any of that experience of driving back then actually help these days?  So I can see why it'd be weighted for more recent events... which doesn't explain how Alonso is 99 as he's missed the last two years. Presumably the most important two years if the weighting is towards recent years. 

I'd assume it's based arbitrarily on debut year and very little more than that.

However, beyond that;

Gasly is somehow less than Norris and Russell when he's been there longer. You could even say he has more experience based on that he's been all up and down the grid in 3 different teams (kinda) whereas the others have been in the same general place (middle for Norris and back for Russell) but for one team. 

Tsunoda is 46EXP. By the time the game came out, he'd 'done' 9 races. (I use done loosely as he'd crashed a fair amount in practice sessions and qualifying) That's 16 points more than other drivers who joined F2 in his year. One less than Mick and Nikita who did an extra F2 year and had testing sessions with Ferrari, Alfa Romeo and Haas (for Mick) Force India and Mercedes (for Maz). So obviously feeder series and testing isn't overly important but a few races in the big leagues is. Yet that can't continue at that exponential forever or they'll all be 99 in 4 seasons.

It's not based on races as Matsushita has been around for yonks and is only 32 rated.  It could be they're not 'real races' as they're feeder series but he's still less than most the F2 field.. for some reason.

Reverting back to F1, Gio has been around the paddock since about 2017 did a race or two and is in his third full year now, and he's less than Latifi. Who started last year.  Admittedly, it may not count as if you look at Gio's character model, he's been dead for 4 years anyway. 

So, going back to the rookies; 2021 rookies are 47, 2020 rookie is 55 so that year is an 8 point swing. The previous years rookies (Russell and Norris) are 60 (and the other guy Gio who started that year is 54 so we'll ignore his) so that's a 5 point swing. So there is a weighting there. It's hard to judge 2018 as Gasly is less than the 2019 rookies but Leclerc is the same as a 2017 rookie in Stroll at 62 which is a 2 point swing from the year before so it begins to mean nothing after 4 years racing as increments are small... at this stage. They begin to matter again after this point.  

So the weird thing is if you focus on the Merc and Red Bull drivers;

Hamilton 2007 - Bottas 2013 - Russell 2019   (6 years difference between each)

Hamilton is 92 which is 17 points ahead of Bottas who is 15 ahead of Russell.  Makes sense in theory but the weighting was going down every year previously so for these to be consistent, it has to have gone up again. So the experience curve is more like a reverse Bell curve. You get alot when you start out, then very little in the middle and then accelerates again if you've been there over a certain time.

The gap between Bottas' and Perez's starting years is two years which is the same gap as between Max and Bottas. Yet there's a gap of 6 points between Bottas and each of the red bull drivers so the yearly growth is consistent there. Perez started 4 years after Hamilton and is 11 behind him so it makes sense.

So, parts of it make sense. Yet other parts of it really don't.   I've tried to apply maths to each year on a sliding scale, while excluding Gio and Gasly as anomalies, but there's an odd lack of consistency. Even an Excel chart putting in all the scores against years in the sport couldn't make accurate sense of it so I can only assume they just looked at the year they started and thought "that'll do".   

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14 minutes ago, ATSSHD said:

Boost: Verstappen, Gasly, Russell, Sainz, Vettel, Alonso

 

Nerf: Bottas, Perez, Ricciardo and big nerf for Tsunoda,

I agree with all of these, but it does highlight something deeper afoot. 
Like Gasly is rated like 90. If he gets much better then he’s going to be Prost/Senna level.   Max is already the highest rated driver there is. Increasing it even by one means he’s the best driver ever seen.
It’s not their ratings that’s the problem, it’s either something behind the scenes or the car ratings. 
You’d think it’s easy enough to fix Gasly/Tsunoda.  Raise the car and lower Tsunoda so it equals out for Gasly.  But then that starts off a chain where you need to raise Aston, Alpine, Ferrari and McLaren to compensate for Alpha’s increase so you have to nerf their driver stats or they’ll all be OP. Then you have like 83 rated Carlos and 85 Leclerc and 85 Alonso. Same problem with Red Bull. Increase the car instead of Max and it fixes the problem where he’s the best of all time. Yet it also increases Perez too and he’s already too high. Do you drop him to 82/83 to compensate?
So it’s tricky to get the balance right. 

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On 8/7/2021 at 1:57 AM, Mattitudey2j said:

Ricciardo is a beast on mine, he won the Spanish grand prix in season 1 and is always fighting for podium positions.

yep same here 😄 he is usually ahead of Norris

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