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V2 Physics Discussion

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BrySkye said:
Zheiko said:
Now, if you put two and two together, main lead designer left few weeks ago, and was replaced. Suddenly, we get Physics rework, that suddenly makes cars handle easier. This seems to me like pretty easy Codemasters move, into how to get more players on-board.
Er, Lee was the community manager. Not a programmer or designer. He talked to the community as opposed to making the game.

Plus, if you think the physics could be re-worked and released in a matter of weeks, you're very very very much mistaken.
My bad:) Apologies, just making assumptions here:) (if it wasnt obvious)

Yes, I know that physics cannot be redone in this short time - not up to the quality we got. I do understand and accept that this is still in very early development, and I bet my left ball(well, not really) that this is not the final build of physics.

What I wanted to point out, is for the Devs to try to keep the direction they decided to go on the beginning.

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Zheiko said:
BrySkye said:
Zheiko said:
Now, if you put two and two together, main lead designer left few weeks ago, and was replaced. Suddenly, we get Physics rework, that suddenly makes cars handle easier. This seems to me like pretty easy Codemasters move, into how to get more players on-board.
Er, Lee was the community manager. Not a programmer or designer. He talked to the community as opposed to making the game.

Plus, if you think the physics could be re-worked and released in a matter of weeks, you're very very very much mistaken.
My bad:) Apologies, just making assumptions here:) (if it wasnt obvious)

Yes, I know that physics cannot be redone in this short time - not up to the quality we got. I do understand and accept that this is still in very early development, and I bet my left ball(well, not really) that this is not the final build of physics.

What I wanted to point out, is for the Devs to try to keep the direction they decided to go on the beginning.
The direction hasn't changed. As has been stated, the original physics had waaaay too much downforce. Adjusting just that alone has had a massive snowball affect.
Things also changed during the Rally Cross pack, based on feedback from the actual WRX drivers that tested it in May/June when they took the game to an actual WRX event and had almost all the drivers try it. Feedback that's being fed back into the v2 physics.
Easier doesn't always mean less realistic. The most realistic Eurofighter Typhoon simulator would be easier to control than a Cessna, because the Typhoon itself is very easy to fly with all it's automation and pilot aids.
Or to put it in other terms, well, let's stick Iron Maiden's Bruce Dickenson into a real airliner he's never flown before and let him do everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM
Perfectly realistic, since it is real, but much easier than the Piper Archer I flew years ago.
gheeD said:

And as far as players being pleased with the physics, well i think it tells alot that something like half of the players play with a controller, rather than a wheel. You cant really see whats missing if you dont drive with a wheel
The majority of the users on this forum use wheels, including the devs.
As far as the community test team goes, controller users are vastly outnumbered.

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Hi i post it on the "flying finland update", but is relative to this discussion, so i will post it again and with one video, may someone allready say it...

The cars with V2 handling looks and drives better than the V1. The car feels a lot better in all surfaces. And the jumps are pretty well done. For me it's a perfect update. Only i would change is the lateral grip in all surfaces. The car don't slide, even if i do full throttle!! I think the car just needs to be more "radical" or "nervous", and less grip when i put throttle or handbrake, the car needs to slide alone! without any power, by the inertia (reference to all RWD cars).
VIDEO: https://youtu.be/Q9FN_coFxbU?t=16m59s

second 16:55s
Look this video, same year, car and track as Dirt rally. If you turn up the volume, you can hear how "el matador" (Carlos Sainz) do the corners. The car just slides for the inertia, and he is trying to get traction with the throttle. In Dirt Rally it never happens, car always have traction so you always can pull the throttle full and go fast. It happens in all stages.
Hope dev's found the way to solve it :)
Bye! 

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GusPerez said:
V2 physics = Arcade + asistencia. It is a step back. This is not the way

Agree... this came more árcade on tarmac, and the car feels like floating.. this is not the way absolutely! In gravel v2 are better than v1, but in tarmac is a lot worse.. :(

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GusPerez said:
V2 physics = Arcade + asistencia. It is a step back. This is not the way

Agree... this came more árcade on tarmac, and the car feels like floating.. this is not the way absolutely! In gravel v2 are better than v1, but in tarmac is a lot worse.. :(

They already know the tarmac physics aren't all that amazing. It's why they're working on it. :)

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BrySkye Good point, thanks for your input, personally, I have absolutely no clue about physics or how the car should behave on gravel, I love my WRX too much to put it through that tests, so I will stick to the roads:). After all, thats why I am playing Dirt Rally and have built whole seat+tripple screen setup, so I can feed my hunger for racing in game and dont need to ruin my own car(I already did destroy one car on Track)


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tried monaco tarmac with the focus, turned it off in 5 mins, the tarmac grip feeling handling physics, are the worst ive ever experienced.

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I never enjoyed Monaco as much until I drove it in the V2 Focus.  I was a lot quicker too!

The biggest change was Greece, I hated the rally as a whole, until V2, again, got through the stages without incident and found the car easier to control and drive on the greek rocks!

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Making things more real and predictable is not arcadish move. Previously cars were acting really bad. That's why it was so hard. Hard is not equal to simulation.

Now there's just a bit too much mechanical grip and things like "point of no return" while sliding is missing. That makes driving a bit easier than it should be. You can always correct even you go way too wide or you don't have to fight to make the car to turn-in, etc... In general you don't get punished if you do stupid things.
I agree on that point, last night racing Finland in the Impreza, I came wayyy too hot into 1 or 2 corner.  I just yanked the e brake and got the car sideways and it slowed down enough to keep it on the road.   When in reality, I would have torn the car in half hitting a tree so hard.

I think also another issue is most of the cars are setup up SUPER safe that make them as easy as possible to drive.  I for one hate tuning so I normally just run stock setups, I wish there was some preset default setups one for safe and one that is looser.

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New physics don't feel perfect, maybe a bit on the light side, but still a great improvement over the old ones. I'm a bit concerned because it seems to be easier now, but I have never driven a rally car, so I have no well-informed opinion on how realistic it is. But to me it feels a bit like adjusting gravity in games like Quake. Original physics felt a bit like 1.5x normal gravity, the new a bit like 0.8-0.9x normal gravity.

There seems to be room for improvement still, but they're much better than the old physics that I used to love, and I'm grateful for that.

The elephant in the room however is the damage model. If I fly into a tree 5m above the ground at 150kph, I expect more than cosmetic damage. Crashing should wreck your car, and taking big jumps flat out should seriously damage it too. That really doesn't feel right.

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Another simple way to demonstrate that the cars have way too much grip:
Take any car on gravel and pick a straight point on a track.  Get the car up to about 70-80MPH and jam the breaks.  You stop in a straight line in about 10-15 feet.

 Its just ridiculous and takes all the fun, immersion and sense of danger out of it..  I was really hoping this was going to replace RBR for me.  I really hope they are still working on this.

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Imjoemang said:
Another simple way to demonstrate that the cars have way too much grip:
Take any car on gravel and pick a straight point on a track.  Get the car up to about 70-80MPH and jam the breaks.  You stop in a straight line in about 10-15 feet.

 Its just ridiculous and takes all the fun, immersion and sense of danger out of it..  I was really hoping this was going to replace RBR for me.  I really hope they are still working on this.
Any car? Thing is, there is a mix of v1 and v2 cars right now. 
If you're using a Group B, Group B RWD, Group A or Kit Car, you're using v1 with the excessive downforce (and the Audi Quattro has far too much engine braking).
The Quattro really will come to a stop that quickly. 

I just tried exactly what you described using the 2001 Focus in Greece.
Stopping distance was more like 30 metres (about 7 car lengths) which is closer to 100ft.
Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable for a  car with suitable performance brakes and tyres.

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BrySkye said:
Imjoemang said:
Another simple way to demonstrate that the cars have way too much grip:
Take any car on gravel and pick a straight point on a track.  Get the car up to about 70-80MPH and jam the breaks.  You stop in a straight line in about 10-15 feet.

 Its just ridiculous and takes all the fun, immersion and sense of danger out of it..  I was really hoping this was going to replace RBR for me.  I really hope they are still working on this.
Any car? Thing is, there is a mix of v1 and v2 cars right now. 
If you're using a Group B, Group B RWD, Group A or Kit Car, you're using v1 with the excessive downforce (and the Audi Quattro has far too much engine braking).
The Quattro really will come to a stop that quickly. 

I just tried exactly what you described using the 2001 Focus in Greece.
Stopping distance was more like 30 metres (about 7 car lengths) which is closer to 100ft.
Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable for a  car with suitable performance brakes and tyres.
Interesting.  I may have overstated the problem by saying 'any car' or 'any gravel'.  I was mainly testing the 2010 Fiesta on the GB tracks and also tried but also tried a few others and assumed they would all behave the same.  

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Imjoemang said:
BrySkye said:
Imjoemang said:
Another simple way to demonstrate that the cars have way too much grip:
Take any car on gravel and pick a straight point on a track.  Get the car up to about 70-80MPH and jam the breaks.  You stop in a straight line in about 10-15 feet.

 Its just ridiculous and takes all the fun, immersion and sense of danger out of it..  I was really hoping this was going to replace RBR for me.  I really hope they are still working on this.
Any car? Thing is, there is a mix of v1 and v2 cars right now. 
If you're using a Group B, Group B RWD, Group A or Kit Car, you're using v1 with the excessive downforce (and the Audi Quattro has far too much engine braking).
The Quattro really will come to a stop that quickly. 

I just tried exactly what you described using the 2001 Focus in Greece.
Stopping distance was more like 30 metres (about 7 car lengths) which is closer to 100ft.
Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable for a  car with suitable performance brakes and tyres.
Interesting.  I may have overstated the problem by saying 'any car' or 'any gravel'.  I was mainly testing the 2010 Fiesta on the GB tracks and also tried but also tried a few others and assumed they would all behave the same.  
Regardless of distance you still stop in a straight line while locking your brakes (v2). I don't think that's how it is supposed to work. Never driven real rally though, so I dunno. 

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AphDburn said:
Regardless of distance you still stop in a straight line while locking your brakes (v2).
Wish I did. I always seem to end up all crossed over.

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just heads up to those hating the short braking distances, put the slider all the way to the left under car settings(brake pressure) 

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@AphDburn Of course the cars will stop in a straight line, otherwise the brakes' balance is way off and that's a bad thing in rallying.

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The party version of Pant Mawr with massive action, airtime and speed... just a little hard to believe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGvBATIeLJI

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@Porkhammer Ah okay, TIL! I always assumed there was supposed to be some kind of sideways movement

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Just did the Impreza daily.  We need our V1 weight back!! (its ideal over the jumps)

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Tom9876 said:
The party version of Pant Mawr with massive action, airtime and speed... just a little hard to believe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGvBATIeLJI
LMAO those jumps >.<

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Tom9876 said:
The party version of Pant Mawr with massive action, airtime and speed... just a little hard to believe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGvBATIeLJI
Physics V2 = ARCADE. It is unrealistic those jumps. And there is no fault, the car always goes smoothly. This is not the way of a simulator. Here there are many users who do not know how to value physical.

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KevM said:
Just did the Impreza daily.  We need our V1 weight back!! (its ideal over the jumps)
I agree completely.

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