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V2 Physics Discussion

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANsGra-lIGU
Goodie, somebody is using pictures of Archer! He is learning!
Really, you used a picture of Archer? Really? 

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KevM said:
Good driving PorkPie!
The grip you get out of those acute corners, well its just sensational!  Must be all about the suspension setup!  Maybe if I practice really hard, my M3 will put the power down like that  :)
Enough. @KevM  give us proof that Porkhammer is cheating or I will ban you next time you mention it in any way, shape or form.

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Oh and that replay looks normal to me too. Nothing out of the ordinary. 

The speed through the first haybale chicane looks insane though. And no, I'm not implying Porkhammer is cheating in any way. I'm not sure you could handle a chicane with that speed irl though.

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bogani said:
Oh and that replay looks normal to me too. Nothing out of the ordinary. 

The speed through the first haybale chicane looks insane though. And no, I'm not implying Porkhammer is cheating in any way. I'm not sure you could handle a chicane with that speed irl though.
Not very likely, no. Then again I've never driven a BMW M3 flat out in Germany in real life, so who knows?

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Oh, and yes - something did happen not long ago making the tarmac driving feel less bad, but I don't think it was applied to all of the cars - and it didn't make much difference for the cars' movement on the replays - but the driving is pretty enjoyable now, at least with the M3. Yesterday's owners' club:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y2Rz3-rnMU

Though I feel that I should add that the car setup has been very tweaked; very stiff antiroll-bars, lowest ride-height, stiff suspension etc - but iirc even without these tweaks there was an improvement. Let's hope this improvement applies to all cars come WW.
Wow. That was a great example how bad the physics can be. Pretty much everything in this video looks unnatural. Felt like watching Mario Kart onboard. :)

I hope they get some sense for tarmac driving too. It's a shame how the same game which offers really good combos like the Abarth on rainy Welsh forests can fall apart completely when not having soft surface underneath the tyres. Codies soft surface physics have to be really clever coding! I wish they would do as clever job with tyres too.

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Oh and that replay looks normal to me too. Nothing out of the ordinary. 
I watched it initially with the sound off.  2nd play with sound (now my colleague has F'd off for a minute) Seems reasonably legit.  Could we have finally persuaded our Porky to start using ability rather than technology?  :P

Or maybe gravity only needs one click on tarmac?? :)

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You'd be surprised how fast you can take a chicane like that IRL in a rally car with the correct setup and tyres. 
Maybe, but it still looks way too fast. It could be a FOV thing that fools me, too bad we don't have a speedo visible.

If I would judge Dirt Rally by that video only without having tried it, I would write it off as yet another Dirt dudebro title. The limited wheel animation doesn't help either.

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bogani said:
 The limited wheel animation doesn't help either.
Yeh, I would like to see these vids with the drivers arms off and wheel able to rotate to show what the real steering is like, I think it would look very different.

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Thats pretty close to the ratio Porky uses in fairness! (I jest!!)

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I hope they get some sense for tarmac driving too. It's a shame how the same game which offers really good combos like the Abarth on rainy Welsh forests can fall apart completely when not having soft surface underneath the tyres. Codies soft surface physics have to be really clever coding! I wish they would do as clever job with tyres too.
I sometimes think that developers feel they have to take on too much and it could simply be the market demands it - ever since racing games seem to have been judged by numbers of cars and tracks.

A rally title on loose surfaces (named something like DiRT!) would be a sufficient enough release to me rather than trying to do multiple surfaces.I think they have pretty much nailed gravel as far as any sim has on any surface. No sim has a generic model that works across surfaces and tyre types, it takes many development years, possible decades to achieve.

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I continue to watch with comical interest the progression of Kev's messages which have so far proceeded as follows:

- I don't care about times, everyone uses different views in game so times aren't accurately representing skill.

- I switched to bonnet cam to compete with you guys.

- Porkhammer is cheating.

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KevM said:
Thats pretty close to the ratio Porky uses in fairness! (I jest!!)
Actually that's about true. I think I remember Porky saying he uses about 270 or so. I won't be that fast through corners because I use 900 with soft lock, so 540 at the lowest.

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I continue to watch with comical interest the progression of Kev's messages which have so far proceeded as follows:

- I don't care about times, everyone uses different views in game so times aren't accurately representing skill.

- I switched to bonnet cam to compete with you guys.

- Porkhammer is cheating.
Porky enjoys the banter.  Stop trying to twist my words and stop trying to orally irrigate his colon you internet twit.

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KevM said:
I continue to watch with comical interest the progression of Kev's messages which have so far proceeded as follows:

- I don't care about times, everyone uses different views in game so times aren't accurately representing skill.

- I switched to bonnet cam to compete with you guys.

- Porkhammer is cheating.
Porky enjoys the banter.  Stop trying to twist my words and stop trying to orally irrigate his colon you internet twit.
Uh oh, someone seems to have contracted a severe case of mad.

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I hope they get some sense for tarmac driving too. It's a shame how the same game which offers really good combos like the Abarth on rainy Welsh forests can fall apart completely when not having soft surface underneath the tyres. Codies soft surface physics have to be really clever coding! I wish they would do as clever job with tyres too.
I sometimes think that developers feel they have to take on too much and it could simply be the market demands it - ever since racing games seem to have been judged by numbers of cars and tracks.

A rally title on loose surfaces (named something like DiRT!) would be a sufficient enough release to me rather than trying to do multiple surfaces.I think they have pretty much nailed gravel as far as any sim has on any surface. No sim has a generic model that works across surfaces and tyre types, it takes many development years, possible decades to achieve.
I agree you on that. Actually I think that DR would be better product without the tarmac because when it's in the game you have to drive it as a part of a championship for example.

But the thing which is worrying is the fact that tarmac should be the easiest and most straight-forward to simulate. Therefore it's quite safe to say that the issues are in the car, in its dynamics and can be seen on the gravel too no matter how well the surface code tries to hide it (grip peaks on heavy tyre loads comes first into my mind).

At first you should do the basics properly, then adding more advanced stuff on top of it. 

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I hope they get some sense for tarmac driving too. It's a shame how the same game which offers really good combos like the Abarth on rainy Welsh forests can fall apart completely when not having soft surface underneath the tyres. Codies soft surface physics have to be really clever coding! I wish they would do as clever job with tyres too.
I sometimes think that developers feel they have to take on too much and it could simply be the market demands it - ever since racing games seem to have been judged by numbers of cars and tracks.

A rally title on loose surfaces (named something like DiRT!) would be a sufficient enough release to me rather than trying to do multiple surfaces.I think they have pretty much nailed gravel as far as any sim has on any surface. No sim has a generic model that works across surfaces and tyre types, it takes many development years, possible decades to achieve.
I agree you on that. Actually I think that DR would be better product without the tarmac because when it's in the game you have to drive it as a part of a championship for example.

But the thing which is worrying is the fact that tarmac should be the easiest and most straight-forward to simulate. Therefore it's quite safe to say that the issues are in the car, in its dynamics and can be seen on the gravel too no matter how well the surface code tries to hide it (grip peaks on heavy tyre loads comes first into my mind).

At first you should do the basics properly, then adding more advanced stuff on top of it. 
Thing is, the base physics they had way too much downforce to begin with. Reworking that with V2 probably changed a whole lot and flaws in the physics showed up that didn't occur before. The V2 was never planned in the first place, it was developed due to feedback from the early access program.

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New FFB brings me a whole new concept of V2 physics... in a good way.

Have to play a lot more of combinations, but it feels different now.

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-here new Quattro  Physics of Pikes Peak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O01GXLFkgRw

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SkyRex said:
-here new Quattro  Physics of Pikes Peak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O01GXLFkgRw
PP cars doesn't use V2 physics I'm afraid.

Yes they do. Don't listen to my lies! ;)

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bogani said:
PP cars doesn't use V2 physics I'm afraid.
I'm afraid that statement is a complete BS. Not only do the setups I had got erased (you could argue that the cars still have old physics if the setups would still be there), but the cars... holy crap, they feel so good. @Porkhammer you NEED TO try them. Take Quattro, lock both diffs, max out the preload (rest is up to you, depends on tarmac or mixed as well) and you'll be having a blast compared to the spongy behaviour the Quattro had before.

It feels similar, just... better. In every way I think. I would say that's how V2 on tarmac should behave from the start (which it may be just me, but it seems to improved anyway for other cars). I'm gonna really pay attention to how the Polo R WRC changes it's handling with the upgrades installed on it. Specifically the weight reduction ones.

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