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V2 Physics Discussion


griev0r

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The reason I'm critical of the ability to be as fast as wheel users while using a game pad is that a wheel provides a lot more feedback and this should result in a greater confidence in the limits of the cars and faster times, in a realistic simulation.
Which is exactly why I'm using chase camera and crashing a lot. I'm pushing it way beyond what I "feel" through the gamepad as a safe point, using the visual feedback from chase camera as a way to adjust, but often it goes "ping" and restart is in need. I'm not going "slow and steady", I'm the "fast, if crash then restart" type :p 

And just so you know, I had a WR with V1 physics in Germany and Monte Carlo with Group B as well (was beaten by RallyCameraMan though). Steering wheel gives a huge advantage, but it does not drive for you. If the driver doesn't push it hard, then the times will reflect that, irrelevant of the controller that you're using or how realistic the game is in terms of physics. The quote on my signature is basically my motto for racing.
I promise that if I would've a proper steering wheel like a G27 or T300RS, I would give Porkhammer and RallyCameraMan a run for their money more often than not. Gamepad is what limits me currently, keep that in mind.
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I dont actually worry about times.  They mean nothing to me, as no-one seems to play by the same method.  

Why shouldn't Ryu set a world record when he can see the stage from high up, over the car and all of its extremities, and not have to fight the kicking steering forces when full lock is but a thumb-swipe away??  That's no disrespect to him or his ability, its just not like-for-like competition, no ones fault!  

But why would I try to compete with that, with an in-car cam and a 700 degree FFB wheel?  
I dont play DiRT Rally to be fastest, I play it because I got fed up lying out £2500 for a car + tax & insurance and paying £150 for entry, club membership, more insurance, tyres and petrol, every weekend there was a Targa Rally or AutoTest on, and see this as a pretty damn accurate alternative to feed my need at a fraction of the cost! :)

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KevM said:
I dont actually worry about times.  They mean nothing to me, as no-one seems to play by the same method.  

Why shouldn't Ryu set a world record when he can see the stage from high up, over the car and all of its extremities, and not have to fight the kicking steering forces when full lock is but a thumb-swipe away??  That's no disrespect to him or his ability, its just not like-for-like competition, no ones fault!  

But why would I try to compete with that, with an in-car cam and a 700 degree FFB wheel?  
I dont play DiRT Rally to be fastest, I play it because I got fed up lying out £2500 for a car + tax & insurance and paying £150 for entry, club membership, more insurance, tyres and petrol, every weekend there was a Targa Rally or AutoTest on, and see this as a pretty damn accurate alternative to feed my need at a fraction of the cost! :)

+1
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KickUp said:
ramPage16 said:
V2 cars are just lighter and therefore jump further. The general consensus is that yes, V2 feels much better, but the cars are in the air for too long. I'd say somewhere inbetween the air time of V1 and V2 would be juuuust right.
The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/138072/#Comment_138072
So does this mean we're not getting any fixes for any of the issues with v2?

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function9 said:
KickUp said:
ramPage16 said:
V2 cars are just lighter and therefore jump further. The general consensus is that yes, V2 feels much better, but the cars are in the air for too long. I'd say somewhere inbetween the air time of V1 and V2 would be juuuust right.
The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/138072/#Comment_138072
So does this mean we're not getting any fixes for any of the issues with v2?

"not going happen any time soon" = will happen at a later date after other things will be taken care of

At least there's me hoping so.
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function9 said:
KickUp said:
ramPage16 said:
V2 cars are just lighter and therefore jump further. The general consensus is that yes, V2 feels much better, but the cars are in the air for too long. I'd say somewhere inbetween the air time of V1 and V2 would be juuuust right.
The cars are exactly the same mass between v1 and v2. The effect of the aero (downforce) is more accurate hence the perceived reduction in weight. What we had in v1 was way too much and very primative. What we have now is much more complex and accurate but I'm not going to claim it is perfect. 

Rewriting the aero again to make it even more accurate is going to take a long time as it is incredibly complex mathematics. We will then have to rebuild every single car from the ground up to support it. 

The simulation team moved mountains to get v2 into the game but a v3 is not going to happen any time soon. 
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/138072/#Comment_138072
So does this mean we're not getting any fixes for any of the issues with v2?

"not going happen any time soon" = will happen at a later date after other things will be taken care of

At least there's me hoping so.
So then fock it. Fock it hard. Physics v2 is a blatant joke. NEVER a rally driver did reach 270 Km/h on a 205. I'm driving a 2007 Dirt, a CMR 2005 game all over again. I can't accept it. Fock it really hard. This game used to make me sweat like a fockin pig after being stabbed in the fockin heart. Now it's a fockin walk in the park. For fockin dummies. I can't take it seriously anymore.

Somewhere in v2 physics went completely wrong, and made the game took a very sharp u-turn. Write what I'm saying: It will NOT sell any good after official launch. It will just mimic Fallout 4 in the hype expectation and ball-dropping delivery. First they took the M3 from me. Then the 555. Next will be the 037.

If I wanted a lame rally game I would just be playing WRC5. If I knew it would end up like this I would never have bought the EA in the first place. Fock graphics, fock sounds, fock physics, I used to love this game because it was challenging, because the reward feeling to complete a stage was awesome. Good graphics, superb sounds and good physics just added to the equation. Now it's a mess.

I'm withdrawing my support to this tittle. @KickUp if I were you I would be firing all this simulation team because clearly they don't have the slightest idea of what they are doing... they managed to tranform the most promissing game of the year in yet another Fallout 4 launch... just wait and see.

he'd be driving sideways and hating every second of it though. 
Just to be clear, I don't mind driving sideways on tarmac. It's this stupid Colin McRae Rally-gliding everywhere that came with V2 that angers me. Sliding is not the same as gliding - in case people misunderstood!
Them focking sheep just aren't intelligent enough to realise this. "Oh, easier doesn't mean less realistic". FOCK YOU. Go back playing Mario Kart and leave the serious business to serious boys. No wonder why everytime I see you log in to steam you are playing Skyrim...

This v2 physics IS DESTROYING THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yo Ricky, chillax. They have promised to sort out the V2 - and even bring us a V3 in the future. They know V2 not perfect at the moment - but they did tweak some of it already, and I suspect there will be more tweaks. Have a little faith - and a cold beer to go with it.

People seem to have forgotten just how passionate codies are with this title, especially @KickUp - of course we as players are also very passionate about it, which is why they read all of our feedback and do their best to accommodate the playerbase to the best of their ability. Let the odd hiccups come and go, I'm sure the end result will be spectacular. Sorry if sounding a bit fanboyish, but it's been such a promising early access so far that I still believe strongly in the end result.

:blush:
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I don't think they have "promised" to do anything about V2 other than tweaking the FFB. If there us a V3 it won't be coming anytime soon.

And I really don't get why you feel V1 was so much more challenging and great when the cars was planted on the road like FOCKING formula cars?
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Yo Ricky, chillax. They have promised to sort out the V2 - and even bring us a V3 in the future. They know V2 not perfect at the moment - but they did tweak some of it already, and I suspect there will be more tweaks. Have a little faith - and a cold beer to go with it.

People seem to have forgotten just how passionate codies are with this title, especially @KickUp - of course we as players are also very passionate about it, which is why they read all of our feedback and do their best to accommodate the playerbase to the best of their ability. Let the odd hiccups come and go, I'm sure the end result will be spectacular. Sorry if sounding a bit fanboyish, but it's been such a promising early access so far that I still believe strongly in the end result.

:blush:
now back to skyrim be gone ........... :p
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Yo Ricky, chillax. They have promised to sort out the V2 - and even bring us a V3 in the future. They know V2 not perfect at the moment - but they did tweak some of it already, and I suspect there will be more tweaks. Have a little faith - and a cold beer to go with it.

People seem to have forgotten just how passionate codies are with this title, especially @KickUp - of course we as players are also very passionate about it, which is why they read all of our feedback and do their best to accommodate the playerbase to the best of their ability. Let the odd hiccups come and go, I'm sure the end result will be spectacular. Sorry if sounding a bit fanboyish, but it's been such a promising early access so far that I still believe strongly in the end result.

:blush:
Yeah yeah, thing is I WAS on a cold beer... or two... or five... I tend to get a little Irish when I'm drunk... :blush: 
Just ignore the rant... but the feeling is this.

bogani said:
I don't think they have "promised" to do anything about V2 other than tweaking the FFB. If there us a V3 it won't be coming anytime soon.

And I really don't get why you feel V1 was so much more challenging and great when the cars was planted on the road like FOCKING formula cars?


 Because they were planted like a formula car UNTIL you were close to their limit. Then there was that thin line between awesome driving and a wreck. Man, it was glorious. Can almost say it was the best sensation I had while playing a racing game. I NEVER had any trouble on drifting with V1. :wink: 
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RickyMcHawk said:
I NEVER had any trouble on drifting with V1. :wink: 
Wait, wait, wait, wait. You complain that the game is a lot less challenging now (albeit in a drunken rage, but still xD ), but then you have trouble drifting, which points that it is more challenging now. Am I missing missing something here? Asking since I'm rather confused here.

Also, @Porkhammer try setting the pre-load in cars to maximum and rear toe to fully positive. Should make them less glide'y. Just a hint in case you haven't tried it yet, because it definitely made the cars more... planted.

PS. The drifting in V1 cars was/is a bit too... simple. I don't want to use the word "arcade", since there's nothing wrong with that, it's just that the drift felt a bit too unrealistic and like it belong to the style you found in arcade games, specifically Burnout ones (played a lot of them, thus the comparing). You just went handbrake, screamed through a hairpin with full power and a strange grip to the drift and went on like nothing happened. The point of a drift is that you don't have a grip as far as I know. Not saying V2 is perfect in this regard, just that V1 was definitely far from perfect as well. There was literally no point in controlling the drift with throttle.
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RickyMcHawk said:
I NEVER had any trouble on drifting with V1. :wink: 
Wait, wait, wait, wait. You complain that the game is a lot less challenging now (albeit in a drunken rage, but still xD ), but then you have trouble drifting, which points that it is more challenging now. Am I missing missing something here? Asking since I'm rather confused here.
No no, no. What I said is that, when we had V1, people would complain they couldn't drift. But I did drift easily (watch the video, it's me with a V1 M3 on Monty). Now it's even easier, since the car just don't snap out of control anymore, hence my rage quit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwmerXdktSs
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KevM said:
lol - V1 was so slow!                                                     
Yet 100% more fun. One could actually feel the cars limits, unlike V2's hovercrafts. As it is now, I can't even tell whether I've set a good time or not until other people have done their runs - all due to the cars' undramatic handling. What us V1 fanatics are yapping about is this; aggressive, smooth precision driving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvsMGNkNGVo

Though, of course - V2 has some bright sides as well. I find braking distances and loss of grip a lot better.
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KevM said:
lol - V1 was so slow!                                                     
Yet 100% more fun. One could actually feel the cars limits, unlike V2's hovercrafts. As it is now, I can't even tell whether I've set a good time or not until other people have done their runs - all due to the cars' undramatic handling. What us V1 fanatics are yapping about is this; aggressive, smooth precision driving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvsMGNkNGVo

hough, of course - V2 has some bright sides as well. I find braking distances and loss of grip a lot better.



But if grip is the problem then, why not just reduce the grip?!
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the hover craft thing with v2 is real.cant deny that. some cars feel like im just surfing.

in wales though some cars are just amazing like the subaru 2001 impreza but then you have cars on same track like the evo x which is terrible over ramps also rs200 which is basically a paper plane. :D

needs a in between.
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dgeesi0 said:
the hover craft thing with v2 is real.cant deny that. some cars feel like im just surfing.

in wales though some cars are just amazing like the subaru 2001 impreza but then you have cars on same track like the evo x which is terrible over ramps also rs200 which is basically a paper plane. :D

needs a in between.
too less downforce       with v1 too much  :D
but handlingwise the v2 is way better, more dynamic than v1 driving

v1 was sometimes like drivng a truck :D
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Oh, come on, everybody knows the v2 on tarmac sucks!

But i really wouldn't go back to v1, the cars were like bricks with no weight transfer and had a suspension that absorbed every impact but was very stiff at the same time, also the exaggerated downforce and overpowered engine braking made the cars stop too fast...

Now, on v2, all this i've pointed above got fixed, cars have realistic inertia, suspension works more realistically, engine braking is fixed, downforce is more realistic as well (but i think the drag isn't right, the 70s and the Gr.B cars are just too fast on the straights for example, this would also tone the jumps down a bit)

The tyres, either on gravel and tarmac i, think are the main problem, on gravel there's not enough grip loss x slip angle (you can recover some ridiculous slides quite easily) and on tarmac, well, i don't even know where to start... the only thing that feels quite right on tarmac is when you're sliding :S
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Porkhammer said:
Yet 100% more fun.
I would highly digress on the fun aspect. Sure, it was rewarding to finish a stage in V1, but I always had the feeling that I finished it only because I held back and not because I kept it together. The moment I lost the grip, be it even slightly, it was the end. I had huge issues enjoying the cars. With V2 I can actually push the cars and don't feel that I need to held back through all of the corners. Finishing a stage now has the "I kept it tight" rather than "I held back" feeling. I wouldn't say it's easier (I crash just as much), it's just that we have more control over the cars now.

Generally speaking, the controllability of the cars have greatly improved, but the tarmac definitely took a hit in the "grounding" department. So for those running a sophisticated steering wheel that allowed them to go over the control issue in V1 would feel like they have less fun, but for everyone else the fun has probably increased because they can actually control the car. Again, it doesn't mean it's easier to push to the limit, it simply means you have more control over what you're doing.

To put it into comparison with V1, I would say that then we always had grip, even when drifting, which made it very jerky and unnatural. Now we're in a state of a constant "drift", even when going straight. Though they are improving it (compare '01 Focus with '07 for example).

In short, the improved controllability allows to have fun with the cars even if you don't have a steering wheel (which was the only way of having some level of it in V1), which IMO is more realistic. After all SAAB made a car that was controlled through... something that definitely didn't look like a steering wheel in any way. My point is, gamepad is naturally a less sophisticated way of controlling a car, but at the very core the data then is being transmitted is the same. It's an axis.

@RickyMcHawk I could record a piece of footage showing how easily it is to spun out of a drift in an M3 in Monte. So it is possible to spun out, you're just naturally good at it. However one thing I noticed, is that drifting the cars in V1 was too stiff and too unforgiving along with there being too much grip to the drift. V2 however feels a lot more similar to how drifting looks in Project CARS for example, which should point out it's heading in the right direction.
My point is, you're just damn good at drifting. Take pride in it rather than saying "it's too easy!!!". Drifters don't make their cars harder to drift, they use the fact it's easier to drift to make those drifts not only last longer but also to be even more extreme. Also, cars generally don't snap out of control. You know, when something snaps, it means it broke ;)

Also, if you require a stupendous challenge, try playing Burnout. Driving as fast as possible while avoiding a ton of traffic and beating your opponents all at the same time requires not only precision, but a devilishly good reflexes as well.
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