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V2 Physics Discussion


griev0r

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Porkhammer said:
Yet 100% more fun.
I would highly digress on the fun aspect. Sure, it was rewarding to finish a stage in V1, but I always had the feeling that I finished it only because I held back and not because I kept it together. The moment I lost the grip, be it even slightly, it was the end. I had huge issues enjoying the cars. With V2 I can actually push the cars and don't feel that I need to held back through all of the corners. Finishing a stage now has the "I kept it tight" rather than "I held back" feeling. I wouldn't say it's easier (I crash just as much), it's just that we have more control over the cars now.
I don't mean to sound like an ass now, but don't you think that this was due to you using a controller, whereas people with wheels could "relate" better to the V1 handling? Of course you feel that you have more control since V2 cars act like hovercraft on tarmac now, but for wheel users the tables have more or less turned. Now it's the controller/keyboard fellows enjoying the supposed challenge, while people with a wheel struggle because the car glides around like butter in a hot frying pan before even beginning to slide.

Again, not trying to be an ass, it's a genuine question/assumption.
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Also, if you require a stupendous challenge, try playing Burnout. Driving as fast as possible while avoiding a ton of traffic and beating your opponents all at the same time requires not only precision, but a devilishly good reflexes as well.
Must... not... take... obvious... bait....

Also if you want real drifting you need to play nfs underground 2 amirite? That shit is where the world's elite hone their craft.

Damn, I took it after all. 
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Evilsmurf said:

I'm a wheel user and while it's not perfect, I don't think it's as bad as you all make out.

Before someone yell's "low rotation!" I use 540 degrees.

FWIW I use 900 degrees and love working the wheel and find the the V2 physics feel more "car like". I tested running at a really low rotation, 300 degrees or so and set personal bests by some margin but it felt far less like driving a real car and ultimately that is why I like driving simulations, to feel believable. Sometimes there can be a trade off between raw speed and immersion.
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Cortextual said:
Also if you want real drifting you need to play nfs underground 2 amirite? That shit is where the world's elite hone their craft. 
I did said stupendous challenge, not realistic experience. Challenge comes in more forms than just keeping the car on the narrow road after all. For example avoiding oncoming cars by inches while making sure you're still drifting enough to keep the boost going and not crashing into... well, anything to be honest, because at that speed a small scratch results in a crash.

And don't ever mention that fockin rice simulator. Ruination of a great gaming franchise is what that thing is. There's not a single good feature in that entire "game"'. Fockin Fast & Furious hype and EA being a sale *****...

If you bring out negative reaction it's your fault. I only mentioned that another racing game can provide some breakneck challenge. I did not say in any way that it's superior. Simply noted it provides that kind of challenge for those interested in that kind of thing.
dgeesi0 said:
burnout was great fun lol :D but you cant compare it to a rally game. unless you maybe play on joypad ;)
Well... I didn't compare it at all, so... what's your point?
(love Burnout BTW, best pure arcade racers of the last decade)
Agree. Burnout is the mother of arcade racers.
Porkhammer said:
I don't mean to sound like an ass now, but don't you think that this was due to you using a controller, whereas people with wheels could "relate" better to the V1 handling? Of course you feel that you have more control since V2 cars act like hovercraft on tarmac now, but for wheel users the tables have more or less turned. Now it's the controller/keyboard fellows enjoying the supposed challenge, while people with a wheel struggle because the car glides around like butter in a hot frying pan before even beginning to slide.

Again, not trying to be an ass, it's a genuine question/assumption.
*grammar nazi reply* Well it's hard to play a game when you can't control it :p Not sure how people who have wheels instead of legs can "relate" better to handling in a game, but that's just me :p 

*actual reply* True, FFB plays a major role in being able to tell what's happening with the car, as it can effectively tell you things that otherwise no one would know. However, my issue with V1 is not that I didn't knew where the limit was. I knew it perfectly, it's as simple as the lack of precision in my controller of choice, which is a gamepad, resulted in me not being able to control the cars and keep it there at the same time. Those that are using the higher precision controller such as a steering wheel had not only just more precise steering input but also FFB to help them control the car on the limit. I had none of that.
I agree 100% that you can't tell the limit on the V2 physics. It's not just an issue for steering wheel users, but gamepad and keyboard and whatever else as well. However now I feel that I am in control of the cars, whereas previously there was close to none of it. Even when they are essentially acting like hovercrafts, I am capable of actually steering them.

Let me put it this way. We basically all agree that cars in V1 apart from the feeling of grip and the limit of it were highly exaggerated in their behaviour, as in too planted down, on or off grip etc. So there you had to have a certain hardware (steering wheel with good FFB) for the game to allow you to control that exaggerated car behaviour. Now the same FFB that helped you in V1 is probably giving you false information on the V2 tarmac side, since now the cars have a tendency of making it seem like the rear wants to step out, but you can keep it and power at the exit will straighten it out. Now being tuned for that exaggerated behaviour which resulted in an actual slide whenever the rear stepped out slightly it will naturally freak out with all those "micro slides" happening in V2 tarmac giving you the exact reaction you described. It's not as apparent (if at all) on gravel since you're in a constant slide there anyway. Those that didn't had a steering wheel with a good FFB never had anything to help them, so naturally the only difference they now see is that the cars are less planted, like to fly to the moon on the nearest occasion and that the cars actually respond to the controls more naturally. In my case the only "FFB" I have in my gamepad is a vibration that tells me when the road surface gets more rough, as in bigger holes in gravel, patches on the tarmac etc. nothing more. The majority of the feedback I receive comes from the car itself, as in Visual Feedback (VFB) from the chase camera. The biggest benefit of it is that it will never provide misinformation.

So in short, I also am struggling to find the limit just as anyone is, which often results in me seeing in how many new ways I can rip of the part of the bodywork from the car. However because I from the start had only VFB (which is basically a visual representation of physics themselves) I now don't suffer from an issue of an over-reactive helper that effectively misinforms you and makes the experience worse. Basically the FFB now on tarmac should be behaving something like: "SAMIR, YOU ARE BREAKING THE CAR!!!".

Maybe try turning off the FFB when driving on tarmac and see how it goes. It won't fix the issue with limit or hovercrafting but it may actually allow you to tell when the car goes into actual slide and not just count "micro slide" as a full slide.

That's the best answer I can come up with at this point in time using the information and experience I have now. Hope it explains how things look "from the other side".
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I understood what you were saying about Burnout, it certainly does take good reflexes and precision. Came kind of out of left field in a discussion about DiRT Rally though so you can see why someone might assume you're implying a connection. Lots of games take good reflexes and precision, but you wouldn't catch me suggesting you soothe your v2 physics woes by playing Tetris. I forgot what we were talking about anyway. Just watched day 1 of rally GB, Sweet Lamb woot! looking forward to some decent onboards of that.
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Ok, this isn't V2 related but I didn't want to make a new thread on it just yet. Figured it's best to consult others who are also critical of the cars. Ever since Modern Masters, certain cars are experiencing a major issue where every time you compress the suspension past a certain threshold, the car clips against the ground as if the body is hitting the ground. When this happens, you lose steering input for a split second and your car will bounce back off the ground slightly. This is a major issue because it happens almost every time you hit a harsh enough bump, of which there are many throughout every stage. It affects certain cars more than others but the best example is the R4 Subaru on Fferm Wynt. I've also noticed it on the 037, Lancer Evo, and Fiesta.
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ramPage16 said:
Not sure if it's bump steer because I don't know what that's supposed to feel like. It feels like you're driving a low rider and the body keeps slamming against the ground. Or perhaps the wheel is making contact inside the wheel well, IDK.
Bump Steer is when your wheels steer themselves without input from the steering wheel.
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