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V2 Physics Discussion


griev0r

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ramPage16 said:
I haven't bothered trying anything other than stock setup. Setup doesn't seem like it should be an issue in this case. This is more of a game bug than setup issue in my opinion. I'd be happy to test your suggestions to the setup though.
Try bumping rebound and fast rebound dampening up 1 click front and rear. That tamed rebound-hop in Finland for me.
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Thanks wasabi but this isn't about hopping. It's as if the suspension is extremely light and it's bottoming out, or the body is snagging the ground, or the tires are hitting the wheel well. This is happening AS you hit a bump or moderate crest and also sometimes when landing. It happens 4 or 5 times on just the first 30 seconds of Fferm Wynt. The reason I don't think it's a setup issue is because you can use light suspensions just fine with other cars and not have a problem.
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ramPage16 said:
Ok, this isn't V2 related but I didn't want to make a new thread on it just yet. Figured it's best to consult others who are also critical of the cars. Ever since Modern Masters, certain cars are experiencing a major issue where every time you compress the suspension past a certain threshold, the car clips against the ground as if the body is hitting the ground. When this happens, you lose steering input for a split second and your car will bounce back off the ground slightly. This is a major issue because it happens almost every time you hit a harsh enough bump, of which there are many throughout every stage. It affects certain cars more than others but the best example is the R4 Subaru on Fferm Wynt. I've also noticed it on the 037, Lancer Evo, and Fiesta.
I'd like to hop in on that. Noticed this particularly with the Group B Quattro. The car was already front-heavy with the v1 handling but v2 has taken this effect to a new extreme. It's especially bad on Wales since it's already happening after rather small jumps. The car will not be steerable for about 1 second after making contact with the ground again. I've tested numerous suspension / damper settings with little to no effect on the car. With R4 cars the effect is there too, but nothing compared to the Quattro and managable with damper adjustment.
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Hi mates, I dont know... I dont feel all cars "V2" the same way. I know they have its own behavior but specially I feel ones more "floaty" than others.

Yesterday I did a league with Mini at Wales, 12 stages. This car still reminds me V1, a lot. I has changed but not like the 70´s MKII for example.

Other cars feels great, like the new R4 class cars. I love the EVO, it runs great and the FFB feels superb.

I dont know, but I feel Codies didnt aplied the same "V2 formula" for every car.

To give some examples, lets figure out V1 is the grippy one and the V2 the floaty/less grippy one:
(How I feel the cars, something in between; forget Finland stages, think in all the others)
- Mini: 1.4; It has a quick airtime in jumps and grips well. Weak FFB.
- Ford RS200: totally 2.0 and broken. It has no grip at all on tarmac.
- Lancer EVO X: 1.6. You can feel the weight of the car, grips well and FFB is heavy and responsive.
I find this car config totally awesome. And its very responsive to setup also.
- Sierra RS500: 1.8 overall is good but it just fly too much
- Escort MKII: 2.3 steering totally unresposive and grip lack. FFB is very weak.


Its just me or theres something under the hood?
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I think the cars could benefit from v.slightly more aero/downforce, but a large increase in power/torque to compensate!  I find, that even the WR cars, gearboxes need to be short to match power output, where these cars should be able to pull longer gears.  In turn, this would let the cars power through the grip more, which could result in bigger sustainable power-slides on gravel?  At the minute, I feel you throw a car into a corner, initiate a nice slide & run out of torque and then grip/straighten again.  It feels too much like quickly neatly driving through the stage at the minute.  In Wales for example, the car should never really straighten & be scrabbling for grip through all but top gear!!  
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dgeesi0 said:
i guess it depends how you drive kev. you drive on the edge then alot of the cars do that.
Yep, they step out ok, but not anywhere near the same extent as a real ones!  
The car should be moving around a lot more.  The in-game cars are fun on low-speed tight corners, but pick up the speed and they just grip, straighten & pull the next gear (like the R4 Impreza in the attached video).  If really on the edge, the WR cars should be floating all over the welsh surface and scrabbling for grip before the next gear.  I dont think its road-surface related, it feels like the cars need longer gearing and more torque!  My '07 Focus cant pull 6th even with the final drive below quarter of the range!!

Have a look!
https://youtu.be/d9EgLA7Sh14
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dgeesi0 said:
i guess it depends how you drive kev. you drive on the edge then alot of the cars do that.
I don't think many of us are pootling around on a Sunday drive. Driving over the edge is probably the most common mistakes we non aliens make! I agree with Kev that the longitudinal grip feels a little bit strong.
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Yeah I also think the cars have trouble power sliding around anything except for hairpins. It feels like the wheels just are not spinning enough while they should be and I end up straitening up way too easily. 
Sliding seems more effective with very extreme steering angles than loss of traction. Way beyond the optimum slip angles and far more than you would see a real rally car driver using.
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Yeah I also think the cars have trouble power sliding around anything except for hairpins. It feels like the wheels just are not spinning enough while they should be and I end up straitening up way too easily. 
what ? have you not driven the pug 205 t16 it spins like forever ! on the edge its like spin spin spin.you can here the wheels doing it very well on tarmac.
i did a video on monaco yesterday . even on small bends spins spin spin :D

you can do same on wales or finland just depends how you drive i guess.
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dgeesi0 said:
Yeah I also think the cars have trouble power sliding around anything except for hairpins. It feels like the wheels just are not spinning enough while they should be and I end up straitening up way too easily. 
what ? have you not driven the pug 205 t16 it spins like forever ! on the edge its like spin spin spin.you can here the wheels doing it very well on tarmac.
i did a video on monaco yesterday . even on small bends spins spin spin :D

you can do same on wales or finland just depends how you drive i guess.
It isn't a massive deal but having driven some relatively low powered cars on slippery stuff spinning up the wheels hardly needs any mega technique other than some unsubtle work with the throttle pedal! It seems that we need to pretty much overcome the tyres grip laterally to induce much in the way of wheel spin at anything other than the slowest corners.
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dgeesi0 said:
what ? have you not driven the pug 205 t16 it spins like forever ! on the edge its like spin spin spin.you can here the wheels doing it very well on tarmac.
i did a video on monaco yesterday . even on small bends spins spin spin :D

you can do same on wales or finland just depends how you drive i guess.
Remember, that car is what, 650bhp & 800 kilo's?  As you've said, the in-game cars CAN behave like that, but I think the rest need a re-think on the power-to-weight ratio.  I said last week, that I would test a rallycross car (similar to 2010 cars, but more power) on the stages to see if it felt a bit more as you'd expect a WR car to, but haven't got round to it yet!
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I had a few hours free this evening to experiment as I said I would earlier in the thread, but haven't yet morphed a RX car onto the stages!!  (That's still to come)

Instead, I had a play about with a 6R4 on gravel, following degeesi0's statement on the 205, which I agree with.  With a fairly long geared setup (to use the torque mid corner, rather than the gears).  the Metro really shows the potential of how V2 cars 'should' be right across the board.  I stick by my earlier theory that, I feel all the other cars need a power injection to start exploiting the new physics.  The 6R4 really gets the constant relationship between throttle & steering to come alive, due to being capable of using on-tap power to overcome gravel grip, the car is literally floating on the road surface (in a good way!!).  That's  something that the other cars in the game only scratch the surface of, momentarily & generally localised to acute corners only. 

With something like the power/grip characteristics of the Grp B 6R4 (or others), married up to the younger, more advanced suspension/chassis feel of the 2000 cars, DiRT Rally could easily take the 'rally sim' crown from RBR, well on gravel at least!
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Where's that Group B handbrake thread???  Scandinavian-style!

Lets see them do that in Seb Loeb!!

https://youtu.be/VBlHU_8svQA


I have tried a lot of different setups, but cant get a 2000's car, 70's RWD or even the M3, to slide around as much as Id like, in a true to life way.  
I am really enjoying the V2 handling with the Group B cars though (6R4 in particular).  They really do behave as a car should and that's a good thing.  Driving it has finally become a 3 dimensional thing, both my wheel AND pedals steer the car!!  So in that respect, I would say that V2 physics do work and are pretty damn close to 'simulation'.  
My feeling is, the other cars in the game don't have enough power/torque to break traction and really push the physics like the Grp B cars do.  The rest, feel a bit like drifting a diesel, as soon as you get them going, you are out of revs and needing another gear, and the slide is GONE!! :)

Can we have more torque, to run longer gearing?  As it is currently, its not possible to do donuts in an upgraded Kadett/Mk2 & since I have started to play the game, the only car I have lost the back end of purely due to power-oversteer,  is the V2 6R4, and that's not right!!  

PS. the above replay was just me playing about, the car is still very capable and fast.  I set an overall top ten time in Finland the first time I tried too!
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xkevlarx said:
Now this was pretty sweet  :p

https://vid.me/OxMy
Holy crap, now that's a long one xD The music fits so well though :D 


Anyway, I've noticed something yesterday. It's about the upgrades on the cars, namely the weight reduction. Normally when you make the car lighter, the centre of mass goes lower, the car becomes more lively and there's less body roll. It doesn't seem to work that way in DR as of now.

Let me give an example. In Project CARS, you can do a lap in a car with full petrol tank and it will feel rather heavy, a bit sluggish, there's some body roll as well. But if you make it to run on just few litre's, the car will feel more lively, there will be less body roll as well and the car will generally feel faster and more controllable at the same time. In DiRT Rally, the car after applying a weight reduction upgrade becomes more lively, it's faster, but there's more body roll. Now unless I'm confusing some thing, more body roll from a weight change means the centre of the mass went higher, right?

Here's a quick example. Focus '07, without the upgrades it's sluggish as hell, but it has less body roll and feels a lot more "grounded" (aka not hovercrafty) than fully upgraded one. Peugeot 405 T16, same thing. Generally speaking, I noticed this behaviour on all the cars so far (not sure about RX ones though) which means it's not physics dependant, but can impact the cars handling.

If anyone could verify it's not just my imagination making me "see" things, that would be great. If it won't be just me, we could ask @KickUp for some clarification on the subject, maybe through a Road Book if the post would be too complicated, time consuming or something along those lines. May also help with the whole "hovercraft" issue on tarmac, since the V2 physics cars without upgrades feel almost like V1, if not basically like them, just without the "I'll kill you if you make a mistake" part.
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KevM said:

I am really enjoying the V2 handling with the Group B cars though (6R4 in particular).  They really do behave as a car should and that's a good thing.  Driving it has finally become a 3 dimensional thing, both my wheel AND pedals steer the car!!  So in that respect, I would say that V2 physics do work and are pretty damn close to 'simulation'. 
Maybe its true for tarmac. But for example, I can't watch without tires a replays of the Ford 2000's in the Finland. It seems that it hovers in the air, and the road - is only augmented reality. No weight. No downforce. The ball, like a car.
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