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V2 Physics Discussion


griev0r

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Imjoemang said:
So we all know there's plenty of problems with the physics but here's another I was noticing while driving the Grp. A subaru in GB Rain - It seriously feels like you're driving in a foot or more of soft  mud.  The car slows dramatically when you're not on the gas and when you get a little sideways at all you slow to a stop like you're wheels are just stuck in the mud.

I think I read somewhere that the devs added an effect of dirt/mud accumulating outside the tires  when sliding.  If thats the case it feels like its exaggerated by 1000%

The 95 Subaru did not get the V2 physics update, and yes, it feels like driving a dump truck right now.
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Imjoemang said:
So we all know there's plenty of problems with the physics but here's another I was noticing while driving the Grp. A subaru in GB Rain - It seriously feels like you're driving in a foot or more of soft  mud.  The car slows dramatically when you're not on the gas and when you get a little sideways at all you slow to a stop like you're wheels are just stuck in the mud.

I think I read somewhere that the devs added an effect of dirt/mud accumulating outside the tires  when sliding.  If thats the case it feels like its exaggerated by 1000%

thats another story my friend:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/7428/behavior-when-releasing-gas-pedal
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OzoreXS said:
Imjoemang said:
So we all know there's plenty of problems with the physics but here's another I was noticing while driving the Grp. A subaru in GB Rain - It seriously feels like you're driving in a foot or more of soft  mud.  The car slows dramatically when you're not on the gas and when you get a little sideways at all you slow to a stop like you're wheels are just stuck in the mud.

I think I read somewhere that the devs added an effect of dirt/mud accumulating outside the tires  when sliding.  If thats the case it feels like its exaggerated by 1000%

thats another story my friend:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/7428/behavior-when-releasing-gas-pedal
But that is referring to engine braking, no?  Im talking about just coasting with no gears engaged at all.  In RBR I used to use the technique of pressing the clutch to dis-engage the power while sliding in a sharp turn while keeping the revs up to power out.  But on the tracks when rain is on, its not really possible because you slow down too fast.
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Imjoemang said:
OzoreXS said:
Imjoemang said:
So we all know there's plenty of problems with the physics but here's another I was noticing while driving the Grp. A subaru in GB Rain - It seriously feels like you're driving in a foot or more of soft  mud.  The car slows dramatically when you're not on the gas and when you get a little sideways at all you slow to a stop like you're wheels are just stuck in the mud.

I think I read somewhere that the devs added an effect of dirt/mud accumulating outside the tires  when sliding.  If thats the case it feels like its exaggerated by 1000%

thats another story my friend:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/7428/behavior-when-releasing-gas-pedal
But that is referring to engine braking, no?  Im talking about just coasting with no gears engaged at all.  In RBR I used to use the technique of pressing the clutch to dis-engage the power while sliding in a sharp turn while keeping the revs up to power out.  But on the tracks when rain is on, its not really possible because you slow down too fast.
oh, you mean with clutch pressed/overided... to be honest I dont know how the car behaves in that situation o_O
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I've played for a couple hours now and I think the new physics is a fair improvement. There is room for improvement though I think, but it's a step in the right direction. I don't think I could add much to the discussion as far as how to make it better though, it's so fun already.

Yeah it's easier but that doesn't necessarily mean it's more arcade, clearly the old physics had way too much downforce and by changing it other less prevalent issues become apparent. So it hasn't turned 'arcade', relative to the vast majority of racing games out there it is definitely one of the most simulator-like games there is. 'Simulator' is the key word here, it's not 'is exactly the same as real life' as that is impossible.
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I'm liking the new physics a lot, it's very natural in normal situations like this




The weirdness starts when you push things beyond the limit, can't really explain exactly what happens, it seems the car tries to correct itself in high speed slides, then you throw in some opposite lock and you're into the trees :v 
In tarmac is worse, in the tarmac grip changes occur much faster, so this weird center pivot pendulum effect becomes very noticeable/intrusive
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Imjoemang said:
OzoreXS said:
Imjoemang said:
So we all know there's plenty of problems with the physics but here's another I was noticing while driving the Grp. A subaru in GB Rain - It seriously feels like you're driving in a foot or more of soft  mud.  The car slows dramatically when you're not on the gas and when you get a little sideways at all you slow to a stop like you're wheels are just stuck in the mud.

I think I read somewhere that the devs added an effect of dirt/mud accumulating outside the tires  when sliding.  If thats the case it feels like its exaggerated by 1000%

thats another story my friend:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/7428/behavior-when-releasing-gas-pedal
But that is referring to engine braking, no?  Im talking about just coasting with no gears engaged at all.  In RBR I used to use the technique of pressing the clutch to dis-engage the power while sliding in a sharp turn while keeping the revs up to power out.  But on the tracks when rain is on, its not really possible because you slow down too fast.
Cars do slow down pretty fast in that situation as the lateral forces are doing as much as any braking would be. On tarmac it's obviously a completely different story though but on dirt if you're not powering through a corner you lose a lot of speed. If RBR lets you keep speed by holding in the clutch while sliding I would say it is the more unrealistic version.

Just take any crappy car on dirt and do a couple slides and see how quickly you can go from 60kmph to nearly completely stopped. Only takes a few seconds really.
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I've played for a couple hours now and I think the new physics is a fair improvement. There is room for improvement though I think, but it's a step in the right direction. I don't think I could add much to the discussion as far as how to make it better though, it's so fun already.

Yeah it's easier but that doesn't necessarily mean it's more arcade, clearly the old physics had way too much downforce and by changing it other less prevalent issues become apparent. So it hasn't turned 'arcade', relative to the vast majority of racing games out there it is definitely one of the most simulator-like games there is. 'Simulator' is the key word here, it's not 'is exactly the same as real life' as that is impossible.
Great post sir.
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I for one don't even bother playing v1 cars anymore. They just feel sluggish and 'dead'. I do believe v2 could do with some fine tuning with the behaviour at high speeds, but that's pretty much it. Perhaps the aerodynamic lift effect is a bit too exaggerated right now which makes jumps a bit overstated or something like that. Or we're just going way too fast because the damage model doesn't punish insanely stupid jumps the way it should.
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Dytut said:
I for one don't even bother playing v1 cars anymore. They just feel sluggish and 'dead'. I do believe v2 could do with some fine tuning with the behaviour at high speeds, but that's pretty much it. Perhaps the aerodynamic lift effect is a bit too exaggerated right now which makes jumps a bit overstated or something like that. Or we're just going way too fast because the damage model doesn't punish insanely stupid jumps the way it should.
Totally agree about the v1 cars thing. Especially the Quattro feels very bad, massive engine break, too much grip everywhere. Can't wait to see v2 group B :)
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Of all the car classes Group B V2 handling interests me the most because the cars are so beastly. In V1 they are fast, but the sense of holding on for dear life is missing because of all the grip. I think with V2 they will be more of a handful given all that power with old school brakes and suspension. I also suspect that porting Group B to V2 will require a higher degree of fine tuning than the previous V2 cars and things will be learned. Hopefully those lessons will be put to use on the fine-tuning pass(es) on V2 for all cars.
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Agreed with that, I'm really interested in how different they'll be. When they explained the downforce issue, it suddenly made a lot of sense how the 205 was faster than the Fiesta when, in reality, they wouldn't be so split. Hopefully that will no longer be the case with the v2 Peugeot which will mean a sizeable alteration indeed and potentially make it scary as hell.
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There's another thing that happens that i think it should not, you can scrub off too much speed by just sliding.
 This became way more noticeable with v2, but happened with v1 as well

With v2 physics, weight transfer is way more effective, you can use the weight to throw the car into the corner, this often overload the outside-rear tire which would result in a big (and controllable) 4-wheel slide, it's the expected result but unfortunately it's not what happens, instead when you think the slide will start, the car struggles to put the power down and you lose quite some speed, in Greece it's even worse because the turbo isn't in it's most effective conditions.
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Correct @OttoWilson ,you initiate the nice big slide easily with V2, but you cant quite drive the slide as you either bog down sideways or straighten out and go.  Handling is still a tiny little bit too Point&Squirt, but definitely heading in the right direction!  Really getting enjoyable & making V1 seem stodgy
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KevM said:
Correct @OttoWilson ,you initiate the nice big slide easily with V2, but you cant quite drive the slide as you either bog down sideways or straighten out and go.  Handling is still a tiny little bit too Point&Squirt, but definitely heading in the right direction!  Really getting enjoyable & making V1 seem stodgy
Yeah agreed.  I agree that it feels it's a bit hard to hold a 4 wheel drift slide as it wants to slow down and catch grip and go, but other than that... V2 is pretty amazing.  I finally took a break from the 2001's and tried 2 of my favorite cars prior to V2, the Fiesta and Stratos at Finland.  They both feel pretty scary now and I was crashing a lot more than I used to.  Dunno about the talk about the Stratos being more tame with V2 cause that is definitely not the case in my opinion.  They both feel a lot more natural and realistic to me, other than the point made before of having a hard time holding a high speed slide.

Tried the Focus at Germany to test tarmac, feels a hell of a lot better than the on rails like it used to maybe just a tiny bit slippery.  But I think the light/slippy feel has a lot to do with the almost non existent force feedback on tarmac.  I cranked my Clubsport wheel to 150% and still barely had any feedback so hard to judge at this point till they fix that.

Definitely on the right path, getting real close.
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Yeah, biggest reason why its so unrealistic to drive dirt imo.. no lateral grip and throwing the car into the corner not actually braking is often the fastest way to drive it. I don't use that style myself, i drive this and other rally games to improve my rally skills and that doesnt translate into something you would be able to do irl.


I suspect part of the problem is from the tyre "sinking" into the dirt, which does happen when you spin the tire alot or throw it into the corner. I believe that "sinking" effect is overdone and causes it to lose lot more speed than realisticly is possible.
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@griev0r the Fiesta and Stratos are brilliant in Finland.  Really enjoyable!!

I have only just bought an '01 Impreza and used it last night, boy its fast top end, but I have yet to hit the the setup sweet-spot for it in the same way that I have my Focus (which might not allow for fast times, but they are Fun times ).
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I feel the problem is more with the 2000s cars than v2 in general. Especially the Focus is ridiculously oversteering. For example, in those Greek mountain hairpins, when I'm really slow and not sliding, I just tip the wheel and the whole car turns around completely in a fraction of a second. Generally it feels as if the rear wheels were steering too, it just starts rotating around its centre whenever I touch the wheel, in any situation, as if it weighed only 100kg. I can't believe this is right. The Fiesta feels very understeery in comparison, and much more natural to me.
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I watched a replay of a special stage where I was on two wheels, and I noticed that there is no transfer of weight. Let me explain: when I make a corne to the left or right, the weight of the machine should move to the other side but this does not happen. it's as if the front and rear suspension are tracking each other, as if there's a powerful anti-roll bar, the strongest ever. I really like the new physics and I hope you will work on the weight transfer in both roll and pitch beacuse all the cars look like a F1.
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jackooo87 said:
I watched a replay of a special stage where I was on two wheels, and I noticed that there is no transfer of weight. Let me explain: when I make a corne to the left or right, the weight of the machine should move to the other side but this does not happen. it's as if the front and rear suspension are tracking each other, as if there's a powerful anti-roll bar, the strongest ever. I really like the new physics and I hope you will work on the weight transfer in both roll and pitch beacuse all the cars look like a F1.
I feel the cars have much more body roll/pitch than ever before.   Replays look very authentic imo, besides some quirky issues now and then (like the car rolling over fast turns and some landings).
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I feel the problem is more with the 2000s cars than v2 in general. Especially the Focus is ridiculously oversteering. For example, in those Greek mountain hairpins, when I'm really slow and not sliding, I just tip the wheel and the whole car turns around completely in a fraction of a second. Generally it feels as if the rear wheels were steering too, it just starts rotating around its centre whenever I touch the wheel, in any situation, as if it weighed only 100kg. I can't believe this is right. The Fiesta feels very understeery in comparison, and much more natural to me.
Comparing real onboards from Mr. McRae and Mr. Burns, i noticed the steering ratio was very fast in Colin's Focus, he barely had to turn the wheel to move the car around, in contrast, Richard's Impreza was visibly quite tighter than the Focus, but the Impreza was a bigger car, so i think it's a mix of the cars individual traits and driver setup preferences.

There's the pivoting/crabwalking/rear steering problem in the game indeed, it affects all v2 cars, only in some it's more noticeable than in others, but even when fixing this the car trait will prevail i guess...
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