with developers 2021 ALL PLATFORMS - AI speed on 'cooldown' lap causing problems

[Rango]

I've seen a fair amount of feedback that agrees with @DonBlanko. Will try and provide my own evidence as soon as I can (hopefully tonight) 

[BarryBL]

@Rango, ive split them up to ensure a lack of overlap here: ALL PLATFORMS - AI vs AI behaviour on cooldown laps causing problems - Report an Issue - Codemasters Community

Feel free to post here ref: AI vs AI crimes. 

[Rango]

Would it not be AI behaviour in general though? Surely they are meant to behave the same vs other AI as they do vs the player? A lot of the penalties I've seen them incur are happening when they're crawling along, driving side by side, getting in anyone's way who is on a fast lap - player or otherwise. I can guarantee that when it's happened in a session, the AI have penalties. So one is a consequence of the other, rather than being separate issues. If the AI behaviour is correct, nobody is in anyone's way and there are no penalties. 

[BarryBL]

1 hour ago, Rango said:

Would it not be AI behaviour in general though? Surely they are meant to behave the same vs other AI as they do vs the player? A lot of the penalties I've seen them incur are happening when they're crawling along, driving side by side, getting in anyone's way who is on a fast lap - player or otherwise. I can guarantee that when it's happened in a session, the AI have penalties. So one is a consequence of the other, rather than being separate issues. If the AI behaviour is correct, nobody is in anyone's way and there are no penalties. 

Its mostly for bug reporting purposes, so we have a clear point of reference for the bug. Once forum posts cover a number of issues, it can be difficult to see which issue we are trying to resolve.

[Rango]

More AI vs player shenanigans. This was in GP mode. Still not had chance to try out multiplayer as I can't launch a quali on my own.

I will say it was hit and miss, tried 3 individual 18 min quali sessions at Imola and 1 at Portimao and all went OK. 

One session at Canada and this happened. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Rango

[DonBlanko]

6 hours ago, Rango said:

More AI vs player shenanigans. This was in GP mode. Still not had chance to try out multiplayer as I can't launch a quali on my own.

I will say it was hit and miss, tried 3 individual 18 min quali sessions  at Imola and all went OK. 

One session at Canada and this happened. 

Mh.. situations like this are more or less by design, I guess. We had these moments since years. The problem is that AI does not notice when we are on a inlap. But they can't know, because we have no possibility to tell this to AI. Here my solution:

We have the possibility to say to Jeff, that we want to Pit (only in Race, if I remember correctly). As far as I know, this command to Jeff has no effect yet. Wether I noticed any quicker pit stops, nor something else. 

But this command could be used especially for situations like above! If this command would get implemented in practise and qualifying sessions too, then telling this commend could tell the AI that we are on inlap. This should cause, that AI knows that there is no reason to let the player pass. So the AI driver should accelerate and finish its own in-/outlap in normal speed. 

The function which shows that a driver is on inlap, is already implemented in the game. We see that in our race director when we are in the pits. AI drivers with the red round light signs that they are on inlap. So we see this function exists. But it does not exists for player as far as I know. If we would have the possibility to say to other drivers, that we are on inlap (or charge lap) (and if I AI would react correctly then 😉 ) then problems like above would not happen anymore. @BarryBL just an idea how a solution could get implemented in the game. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by DonBlanko

[MisterJes]

The next time this happens to me I will share. I experienced it the other day and I came here to report but found this thread. 

[jnewm13]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:11 AM, BarryBL said:

Going to have to provide examples here @DonBlanko, as other feedback disagrees with this statement

I went through and counted on this thread and the 1.17 patch notes thread. 2 people think the AI are better, but the overwhelming majority say that it is at least similarly bad. Being new to this forum, I can see this problem has been an issue since launch, and other people posting many bug reports hasn't gotten anything changed. Why would I want to put work into helping a for profit company for free when they are still going to ignore it? The AI in career mode are bad enough that I have just stopped doing qualifying and let my grid position fall where it may, and I love qualifying. I think after seeing this response, which I do applaud the transparency, I am just going to try different, non-CM, racing games. Wish I didn't have to though.

[jnewm13]

• AI on outlaps is not aware of player's car. This happens with every car, on every track, and every time that I play. 
• HMHK-HHTB-HMHB-MVKV
• PS4
• Grand Prix
• I haven't tried any troubleshooting, other than skipping qualifying since it is so infuriating. I am also considering buying a PC so I can play iRacing as another option. 
• The entirety of my process of making this happen is shared in the video from the time the disc is inserted into the playstation. 

[Rango]

16 hours ago, jnewm13 said:

I went through and counted on this thread and the 1.17 patch notes thread. 2 people think the AI are better, but the overwhelming majority say that it is at least similarly bad. Being new to this forum, I can see this problem has been an issue since launch, and other people posting many bug reports hasn't gotten anything changed. Why would I want to put work into helping a for profit company for free when they are still going to ignore it? The AI in career mode are bad enough that I have just stopped doing qualifying and let my grid position fall where it may, and I love qualifying. I think after seeing this response, which I do applaud the transparency, I am just going to try different, non-CM, racing games. Wish I didn't have to though.

I do have to agree, I have spend a ridiculous amount of time playing this game purely to test the various patches and feed back that it still isn't fixed. Not to mention the time spent actually playing the game for league purposes and experiencing issues there too. Unfortunately just moving to PC & another racing game is not an option for me, all my gamer friends are all on xbox and no other xbox track racing game comes close except ACC, which doesn't have multiplayer AI so there would just be 7 of us on track. Plus it's F1, the pinnacle of motorsport... IRL at least

Edited April 2, 2022 by Rango

[DonBlanko]

On 4/2/2022 at 2:59 AM, jnewm13 said:

• AI on outlaps is not aware of player's car. This happens with every car, on every track, and every time that I play. 
• HMHK-HHTB-HMHB-MVKV
• PS4
• Grand Prix
• I haven't tried any troubleshooting, other than skipping qualifying since it is so infuriating. I am also considering buying a PC so I can play iRacing as another option. 
• The entirety of my process of making this happen is shared in the video from the time the disc is inserted into the playstation. 

In my eyes it is again the wrong thread here. I think thats a reason, why Codemasters didn't take enough focus on the Bug. Because some people post videos where AI don't leave space, when Player is on hotlap. 

But since the first post of @Rango it is shown that the bug, which we are talking about in this thread is AI vs AI behaviour. It is about slowing down of at least two AI drivers and crashing with another AI driver on hotlap. What you have posted is clearly another situation, (and completyl another AI behaviour!), which was mentioned in another thread. 

The fact that BarryBL opened another thread with the title AI vs AI, just to make the difference between this bugs visible and that he wanted me to provide more matieral because some people mentioned the bug is solved, shows, that CM didn't put these bugs into the right order and didn't understand it correctly. They just saw the bug of AI driver don't let player pass and didn't see that AI vs AI is a completly different bug. That is really frustrating and annoying, because Rango showed clearly that this bug exists since August. And it is obviously only in mulitplayer. Your video seem to be singleplayer. Another different scenario, different bug.

We should really focus on showing evidences where AI VS AI behaviour cause problems. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by DonBlanko

[jnewm13]

Sorry 

On 4/3/2022 at 11:19 PM, DonBlanko said:

In my eyes it is again the wrong thread here. I think thats a reason, why Codemasters didn't take enough focus on the Bug. Because some people post videos where AI don't leave space, when Player is on hotlap. 

But since the first post of @Rango it is shown that the bug, which we are talking about in this thread is AI vs AI behaviour. It is about slowing down of at least two AI drivers and crashing with another AI driver on hotlap. What you have posted is clearly another situation, (and completyl another AI behaviour!), which was mentioned in another thread. 

The fact that BarryBL opened another thread with the title AI vs AI, just to make the difference between this bugs visible and that he wanted me to provide more matieral because some people mentioned the bug is solved, shows, that CM didn't put these bugs into the right order and didn't understand it correctly. They just saw the bug of AI driver don't let player pass and didn't see that AI vs AI is a completly different bug. That is really frustrating and annoying, because Rango showed clearly that this bug exists since August. And it is obviously only in mulitplayer. Your video seem to be singleplayer. Another different scenario, different bug.

We should really focus on showing evidences where AI VS AI behaviour cause problems. 

Sorry if something that I have done is making CM not be able to fix this problem. But this shouldn't have to be reported at all. It should be caught in testing. It is trivial to find examples of bad AI behavior. You really just need to play for a minute or two to witness the AI doing absolutely outrageous things. Even things that aren't infuriating, like the AI not letting you do a hotlap in qualifying really break the immersion, like even with 100 AI, no cars cover off the inside of turn 1 at the start in any track. I wonder if the F1 team at CM just doesn't play the game or watch F1. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. 

After trying to do some GP single player (because the multiplayer is so garbage) practice to get ready for league racing tomorrow, I am buying a computer and getting an iRacing subscription and likely never playing a CM game again. I hope FOM or Fanatec or someone puts some pressure on CM to make this game less horrible, but I suspect it will continue to get worse for the superfan while the casual players don't notice. 

[steviejay69]

1 hour ago, jnewm13 said:

Sorry 

Sorry if something that I have done is making CM not be able to fix this problem. But this shouldn't have to be reported at all. It should be caught in testing. It is trivial to find examples of bad AI behavior. You really just need to play for a minute or two to witness the AI doing absolutely outrageous things. Even things that aren't infuriating, like the AI not letting you do a hotlap in qualifying really break the immersion, like even with 100 AI, no cars cover off the inside of turn 1 at the start in any track. I wonder if the F1 team at CM just doesn't play the game or watch F1. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. 

After trying to do some GP single player (because the multiplayer is so garbage) practice to get ready for league racing tomorrow, I am buying a computer and getting an iRacing subscription and likely never playing a CM game again. I hope FOM or Fanatec or someone puts some pressure on CM to make this game less horrible, but I suspect it will continue to get worse for the superfan while the casual players don't notice. 

Most of the regular posters here were beta testers. The beta was hard to test for some as the overriding issue was with the Thrustmaster wheels. But the window was too short and the bugs weren't addressed.

Many of the posters here are not software testers. Conflating issues is bad, but don't feel bad.

The dev liaison does play the game - some of the staff also. Don't shoot the messenger(s). There's something wrong in the chain, seriously wrong, because surely people can't be so incompetent to wilfully damage the game in attempts (and there is no other word) to refine it.