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Hey,

At the risk of ridicule, having played F1 for a long time, I was used to set up 1 being the highest downforce, through to set 5 being the lowest downforce.

This year seems different, with set up 2 being less downforce than set up 3, can any explain or advise, cheers

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Hey, mate! 

F1 2021 Game Setups and Settings Explained: Everything You Need Know about  Differentials, Downforce, Brakes, and More - Outsider Gaming

Preset 1 - cars set up to produce maximum downfoce levels (and drag, consequentially)

Preset 5 - cars set up to produce the highest top speeds (sacrificing their cornering ability, consequentially).

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@andrewiannixon you need to look at the numbers as a whole. The downforce is majorly dependent on front wing and rear wing angle values, yes, but:

  • The rear wing is the major player here. The front wing angle also affects downforce, but to a less extent.
  • You're also setting up your aerodynamic balance with those sliders. If that balance is in a given point, further to the rear or more to the front – it all affects the handling of the car and whether it will have a tendency to over or understeer. So a 3-5 setup is most likely producing less overall downforce than a 2-6 because of the rear wing angle playing a greater role, and you're probably also getting a more oversteery car with the latter as the air flowing over the surface is pushing the rear down more than it is doing for the front. 

Ride height will also influence downforce and the aero balance.

Do you have the numbers for all these settings? 

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Thanks, just replied to Ultra saying that I had not taken any other settings into account & had only looked at wing settings.


I know the way set ups have been by designed has changed a lot in the game so other settings will affect downforce and my knowledge of set ups is not high enough to understand the impact on downforce that adjusting areas such as ride height would compensate for less wing, but still give higher downforce…

Thanks for the updates and I will look at the other overall settings and see what else has changed to compensate for the reduction in wing

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9 hours ago, marioho said:

Hey, mate! 

F1 2021 Game Setups and Settings Explained: Everything You Need Know about  Differentials, Downforce, Brakes, and More - Outsider Gaming

Preset 1 - cars set up to produce maximum downfoce levels (and drag, consequentially)

Preset 5 - cars set up to produce the highest top speeds (sacrificing their cornering ability, consequentially).

Can you repost - link seems to be broken now... Thanks

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@dwin20 sure, but it's literally a screenshot of the Car Setup menu, that with the setups all lined up CUSTOM SETUP | MAX DOWNFORCE (Preset 1) | INCREASED DOWNFORCE | BALANCED DEFAULT | INCREASED TOP SPEED | MAX TOP SPEED.

image.thumb.png.02300d66e3281cea28c35dbb0e51c884.png

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Just now, marioho said:

@dwin20 sure, but it's literally a screenshot of the Car Setup menu, that with the setups all lined up CUSTOM SETUP | MAX DOWNFORCE (Preset 1) | INCREASED DOWNFORCE | BALANCED DEFAULT | INCREASED TOP SPEED | MAX TOP SPEED.

image.thumb.png.02300d66e3281cea28c35dbb0e51c884.png

That worked - thanks for reposting - and I thought it was something else - sorry

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I'm also trying to get a better understanding of how best to customize setups. Here are the numbers on presets 1-5. It really doesn't make sense for P2  to be 8/5, wouldn't 8/9 or similar make more sense for the Aerodynamics. Even taking suspension into account, which does seem to go in line as a decrease from P3 to P2 to P1.

Also, why are the tyres in P1 and P5 all different pressures>? Any insight would be super helpful, I really am trying to understand these to better customize a proper setup for me.
 

                          	P1   	P2  	P3	P4	P5
Front Wing Aero			11	8	8	7	5
Rear Wing Aero			10	5	8	4	2
Diff Adj ON Throttle		80%	90%	75%	90%	100%
Diff Adj OFF Throttle		60%	55%	75%	55%	65%
Front Camber			-3	-3	-3	-3	-2.7
Rear Camber			-1.5	-1.5	-1.2	-1.5	-1.2
Front Toe			0.1	0.1	0.09	0.1	0.07
Rear Toe			0.35	0.35	0.41	0.35	0.26
Front Suspension		5	7	8	7	4
Rear Suspension			2	2	2	2	1
Front Anti-Roll Bar		5	5	8	5	4
Rear Anti-Roll Bar		1	2	1	2	1
Front Ride Height		1	2	3	2	1
Rear Ride Height		6	6	7	6	5
Brake Pressure			100%	100%	95%	100%	100%
Front Brake Bias		56%	56%	58%	56%	57%
Front Right Tyre Press		22.2	22.2	22.2	23	25
Front Left Tyre Press		21.4	22.2	22.2	23	23.8
Rear Right Tyre Press		21.1	21.9	23.1	21.5	23.5
Rear Left Tyre Press		20.3	21.9	23.1	21.5	22.3
		

 

Edited by SuperSet
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@SuperSet I'm at a loss in some aspects here too. The setups probably went through without a revising as they do seem disjointed at first glance. Let's play with them a bit though:

 Setting aside Preset 3 (Balanced/Default) we get:

                          	P1   	P2  	P4	P5
Front Wing Aero			11	8	7	5
Rear Wing Aero			10	5	4	2
Diff Adj ON Throttle		80%	75%	90%	100%
Diff Adj OFF Throttle		60%	75%	55%	65%
Front Camber			-3	-3	-3	-2.7
Rear Camber			-1.5	-1.5	-1.5	-1.2
Front Toe			0.1	0.1	0.1	0.07
Rear Toe			0.35	0.35	0.35	0.26
Front Suspension		5	7	7	4
Rear Suspension			2	2	2	1
Front Anti-Roll Bar		5	5	5	4
Rear Anti-Roll Bar		1	2	2	1
Front Ride Height		1	2	2	1
Rear Ride Height		6	6	6	5
Brake Pressure			100%	100%	100%	100%
Front Brake Bias		56%	56%	56%	57%
Front Right Tyre Press		22.2	22.2	23	25
Front Left Tyre Press		21.4	22.2	23	23.8
Rear Right Tyre Press		21.1	21.9	21.5	23.5
Rear Left Tyre Press		20.3	21.9	21.5	22.3

Leftmost preset being the max downforce and rightmost preset being the one with highest straight-line speed.

That makes way more sense. There's a rhyme to it.

  • You've got a reasonable decrease in rear wing angle the faster the setup. Rear wing is the major part responsible in producing downforce. Aerodynamic load, downforce... whenever you read this, think of weight and when you think of weight picture an increase on grip (+weight) or a decrease in grip (-weight). Front wing does have a significant impact on downforce, but it's more a tool for setting the aerodynamic balance of the car. Meaning, imagine the car going fast and under the aero load: more FW and the base platform of the car will be pitching slightly more forwards. giving more grip to the front end and somewhat unloading the rear end – less grip to the rear axle. It is the rear wing that will producing the bulk of the downforce – and the undesired drag.
    • You can painlessly increase the front wing angle of Presets 4 and 5. Just be mindful of how the car will behave on fast and medium speed corners. The more FW angle, the more you unload the rear. Increasing the FW angle will influence drag, but not by much. 
  • The on-throttle differential gets progressively locked the faster the setup, apart from Preset 1. Why? I think the devs are assuming P1 will be used that very particular set of tracks like Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. Check this modified table from the Pirelli assessment of the F1 2020 tracks:

1745200480_F12020Averagespeeds.png.2abf604a344b9445d4d68b6b8ac9e2f1.png

Check the average speeds of Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. See how they clearly greatly deviate from the rest? Yeah, these tracks are special. Specially slow. Hungary is even more special in that it is slow, but with fast straights that you'll be a fool to not take note of – and a downforce score of "4" by Pirelli.

Anyway, these tracks are skewed with a predominance of slow corners. They're not balanced at all. Makes sense that the devs envisioned the P1 for them and set a on-throttle diff. more on the closed side of things. It helps on completing the rotation out of those slow corners and hairpins. Had those tracks more corners of medium to high speeds, it would pay dividends to open up the on-throttle diff. so that the rear of the car doesn't step out when exiting those bends. 

Preset 1 makes sense this way, if you see it as intended for Monaco and Singapore. 

  • Suspension wise, it makes sense to have a soft setup for Preset 1. And given the lower aero loads on those tracks (remember the average speeds), you can set a lower ride height (1-6 instead of the 2-6 of Preset 2) as the suspension won't have as tough of a job to keep the chassis' platform stable there. Now it seems to be the other way around, with Preset 5 deviating from the pack. Why does it go even softer on the suspensions?
    • Take a look at the abridged Pirelli table again and look for the other outlier. Can you see it? Right there at the feet of the Alps? Yes, Monza. Every other fast track (average speeds) has a not too shabby downforce score to show off: Silverstone (4), Red Bull Ring (3), Suzuka (3), Albert Park (4). Monza though not only is the fastest by a wide margin it also has the lowest downfoce score of the whole chart. That's because say one thing about the Temple of Speed, it's not very bendy. It has basically two major braking zones that are also chicanes, and that's it for the springs. So softer springs to give you mechanical grip is the way to go. Had it more corners to begin with, and corners of varying speeds, you'd be requiring a whole different kind of work from the suspension as it would have to keep the chassis stable under heavier loads of downforce, be responsive to the steering and so on. 

So yeah, Preset 1 is the Monaco/Singapore mould and Preset 5 is the "Monza designated preset", in my opinion.

Now there's Preset 3, the so-called Balanced/Default setup:

                         	
Front Wing Aero		    	8	
Rear Wing Aero		    	8	
Diff Adj ON Throttle		90%	
Diff Adj OFF Throttle		55%	
Front Camber			-3	
Rear Camber			-1.2
Front Toe			0.1
Rear Toe			0.41
Front Suspension		8	
Rear Suspension			2	
Front Anti-Roll Bar		8	
Rear Anti-Roll Bar		1	
Front Ride Height		3	
Rear Ride Height		7	
Brake Pressure		   	100%
Front Brake Bias	   	58%	
Front Right Tyre Press		22.2
Front Left Tyre Press		22.2
Rear Right Tyre Press		23.1
Rear Left Tyre Press		23.1

That's the "bugger off with this setup thing, I just want to go vroom vroom" setup. It can run in any track, literally any track. This is the plug and play setup. The "I'm too old to worry about numbers" setup. That's the setup for people that don't even know that there are setups in this game.

And it's perfect for them. 

Now, did I enjoy writing this? Not much. This should be better communicated by the game. Again, too opaque. @ShelbyUSA will probably have a kind word or two for this whole affair.

Edited by marioho
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3 hours ago, marioho said:

@SuperSet I'm at a loss in some aspects here too. The setups probably went through without a revising as they do seem disjointed at first glance. Let's play with them a bit though:

 Setting aside Preset 3 (Balanced/Default) we get:


                          	P1   	P2  	P4	P5
Front Wing Aero			11	8	7	5
Rear Wing Aero			10	5	4	2
Diff Adj ON Throttle		80%	75%	90%	100%
Diff Adj OFF Throttle		60%	75%	55%	65%
Front Camber			-3	-3	-3	-2.7
Rear Camber			-1.5	-1.5	-1.5	-1.2
Front Toe			0.1	0.1	0.1	0.07
Rear Toe			0.35	0.35	0.35	0.26
Front Suspension		5	7	7	4
Rear Suspension			2	2	2	1
Front Anti-Roll Bar		5	5	5	4
Rear Anti-Roll Bar		1	2	2	1
Front Ride Height		1	2	2	1
Rear Ride Height		6	6	6	5
Brake Pressure			100%	100%	100%	100%
Front Brake Bias		56%	56%	56%	57%
Front Right Tyre Press		22.2	22.2	23	25
Front Left Tyre Press		21.4	22.2	23	23.8
Rear Right Tyre Press		21.1	21.9	21.5	23.5
Rear Left Tyre Press		20.3	21.9	21.5	22.3

Leftmost preset being the max downforce and rightmost preset being the one with highest straight-line speed.

That makes way more sense. There's a rhyme to it.

  • You've got a reasonable decrease in rear wing angle the faster the setup. Rear wing is the major part responsible in producing downforce. Aerodynamic load, downforce... whenever you read this, think of weight and when you think of weight picture an increase on grip (+weight) or a decrease in grip (-weight). Front wing does have a significant impact on downforce, but it's more a tool for setting the aerodynamic balance of the car. Meaning, imagine the car going fast and under the aero load: more FW and the base platform of the car will be pitching slightly more forwards. giving more grip to the front end and somewhat unloading the rear end – less grip to the rear axle. It is the rear wing that will producing the bulk of the downforce – and the undesired drag.
    • You can painlessly increase the front wing angle of Presets 4 and 5. Just be mindful of how the car will behave on fast and medium speed corners. The more FW angle, the more you unload the rear. Increasing the FW angle will influence drag, but not by much. 
  • The on-throttle differential gets progressively locked the faster the setup, apart from Preset 1. Why? I think the devs are assuming P1 will be used that very particular set of tracks like Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. Check this modified table from the Pirelli assessment of the F1 2020 tracks:

1745200480_F12020Averagespeeds.png.2abf604a344b9445d4d68b6b8ac9e2f1.png

Check the average speeds of Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. See how they clearly greatly deviate from the rest? Yeah, these tracks are special. Specially slow. Hungary is even more special in that it is slow, but with fast straights that you'll be a fool to not take note of – and a downforce score of "4" by Pirelli.

Anyway, these tracks are skewed with a predominance of slow corners. They're not balanced at all. Makes sense that the devs envisioned the P1 for them and set a on-throttle diff. more on the closed side of things. It helps on completing the rotation out of those slow corners and hairpins. Had those tracks more corners of medium to high speeds, it would pay dividends to open up the on-throttle diff. so that the rear of the car doesn't step out when exiting those bends. 

Preset 1 makes sense this way, if you see it as intended for Monaco and Singapore. 

  • Suspension wise, it makes sense to have a soft setup for Preset 1. And given the lower aero loads on those tracks (remember the average speeds), you can set a lower ride height (1-6 instead of the 2-6 of Preset 2) as the suspension won't have as tough of a job to keep the chassis' platform stable there. Now it seems to be the other way around, with Preset 5 deviating from the pack. Why does it go even softer on the suspensions?
    • Take a look at the abridged Pirelli table again and look for the other outlier. Can you see it? Right there at the feet of the Alps? Yes, Monza. Every other fast track (average speeds) has a not too shabby downforce score to show off: Silverstone (4), Red Bull Ring (3), Suzuka (3), Albert Park (4). Monza though not only is the fastest by a wide margin it also has the lowest downfoce score of the whole chart. That's because say one thing about the Temple of Speed, it's not very bendy. It has basically two major braking zones that are also chicanes, and that's it for the springs. So softer springs to give you mechanical grip is the way to go. Had it more corners to begin with, and corners of varying speeds, you'd be requiring a whole different kind of work from the suspension as it would have to keep the chassis stable under heavier loads of downforce, be responsive to the steering and so on. 

So yeah, Preset 1 is the Monaco/Singapore mould and Preset 5 is the "Monza designated preset", in my opinion.

Now there's Preset 3, the so-called Balanced/Default setup:


                         	
Front Wing Aero		    	8	
Rear Wing Aero		    	8	
Diff Adj ON Throttle		90%	
Diff Adj OFF Throttle		55%	
Front Camber			-3	
Rear Camber			-1.2
Front Toe			0.1
Rear Toe			0.41
Front Suspension		8	
Rear Suspension			2	
Front Anti-Roll Bar		8	
Rear Anti-Roll Bar		1	
Front Ride Height		3	
Rear Ride Height		7	
Brake Pressure		   	100%
Front Brake Bias	   	58%	
Front Right Tyre Press		22.2
Front Left Tyre Press		22.2
Rear Right Tyre Press		23.1
Rear Left Tyre Press		23.1

That's the "bugger off with this setup thing, I just want to go vroom vroom" setup. It can run in any track, literally any track. This is the plug and play setup. The "I'm too old to worry about numbers" setup. That's the setup for people that don't even know that there are setups in this game.

And it's perfect for them. 

Now, did I enjoy writing this? Not much. This should be better communicated by the game. Again, too opaque. @ShelbyUSA will probably have a kind word or two for this whole affair.

For the first time... well, I am usually lost when these guys at codemasters release their game, and we blindly try to tune these cars without any insights from a telemetry tool. Regardless, this year, I am very very confused. I have been playing with all of different variations of the setups, and I can't feel really feel the changes in my wheel. There are small oversteery or understeery signals, but, nothing that says... I got too much toe or lack thereof. As a result, I started to play around with extremes to first feel the car through the wheel. Nada. There are some clues in terms of tire temps and tire wear.. but, nope. I can't tell. 

This led to start playing with the height. Something I can visually see. I had decreased it to 1/1. Very very hard to drive, but those changes are not visually represented in the game. The car isn't dragging. hmmm.. So, in turn, I increased it to 11/11... No changes. I took a screenshot to see. I had paused the game at turn 11 at Australia. Zero correlation. Of course, the camber/toe is not visually represented. Also, rollbar and springs are not shown visually as well when weaving back and forth. Of course, the wings are not reflected.

Regardless, and as a result, we need to rely on data. Need to first balance the car by running a practice. Temps staying at 212f/100c for softs. Front/Rear deg needs to be 50/50. Need to play with F/R roll bars and PSI to achieve it. I am lost with Aero, acceleration and off throttle lock. I know what they do, but, I am not knowing what the heck it means in this game as it relates to performance and durability. 

Closing thoughts...

As everyone is struggling to finish a league race (i.e. Australia in particular, especially, turn 1 and turn 11), this game is out of whack. There are some extreme consequences with Codemasters interpretation of their setups, coupled with not holding the lines on the track. 4 out of 20 very very quick and experienced league racers and a few esports qualifiers DNF at Australia. As I would love to give informative insights to understand what does what, this is the year that I am completely at a loss.

In summary, unless Codemasters fix it, I feel the game will need some genius to figure out the most reliable setups to finish OR we wait for Codemasters to water down the extreme weights they have assigned to each attributes associated with setups. 

David, we need some insights... Like we really need it. Again, most of our league racers can't finish a race. Most of the very predominate leagues are postponing due to not understanding. TT times that we can download are one thing, but, not applicable for racing. From previous years, we could get away of racing with a TT setup.... this year... no way. Regardless, something is out of whack and we need some clarification. @David Greco

@BarryBL@David Greco@SuperSet@marioho

 

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6 hours ago, ShelbyUSA said:

I have been playing with all of different variations of the setups, and I can't feel really feel the changes in my wheel. There are small oversteery or understeery signals, but, nothing that says... I got too much toe or lack thereof. As a result, I started to play around with extremes to first feel the car through the wheel. Nada. There are some clues in terms of tire temps and tire wear.. but, nope. I can't tell. 

This 100% true, me and a friend playing 2 player career and we have nearly the same delta and nearly the same driving style. We have the same problems at same circuits, and we tried to test the opposite sliders.

No impact at all....

We were able to recognize our problems and knew exactly what we were lacking in terms of performance, but we could not say which setting parameter we could change to the right direction.

 

 

 

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On 7/16/2021 at 2:22 PM, TasmanianTiger said:

This is BY FAR the worst bug in the game at the moment, and then I am not even talking about the nationwide dutch connectivity problems with the game at the moment (already withs devs). I really hope you can bring this bug to the right people in the company @BarryBL

Here is my bug report of this issue @BarryBL

  • When you are in an Xbox Live Party chat and the game is running, the voice chat is choppy and the audio of the part chat is as well. Happens for all my friends, meaning whoever has the game on, is choppy. 
  • No report code, happens consistently for every single person I know playing the game. 
  • Xbox Series X
  • Main Menu, Time Trial, Braking Point, My Team, even Title screen. More noticeable during race in my experience. 
  • restart the game, restart the console, make new parties. 
  • Any screenshots or video of the issue? Do not own party chat recording tools
  • Create a Xbox Live Party Chat and notice the difference when you/someone starts the Game, and any moment thereafter

 

On 7/30/2021 at 5:36 PM, marioho said:

100% what @ShelbyUSA said. Even if suggestions are a step too far, it would put the game in better standing to have some basic telemetry readings for laps and stints.

Bottoming out, balance (oversteer/understeer depending on the wheels slip angles), traction per corner of the car, load distribution per corner of the car and so on. All this data is already broadcasted by the game telemetry, but having to rely on external tools for even the basic stuff is too much.

Jeff loves to ask us to keep an eye on tyre temperatures. Hey, Jeff, why not you keep on eye on them while I keep an eye on the road? Then just present me with lap averages and min/max temps when I get back to the garage.

 

On 7/30/2021 at 6:14 PM, marioho said:

Yep. I guess that recommendations are hard to make, but at least a clear reading of what is going on with the car so that us players can make informed decisions.

Car balance, load transfer and distribution, and tire section temperature (outside, middle and inside sections on top of the carcass and surface temperatures we already have). That's crucial for suspension and suspension geometry settings.

 

8 minutes ago, 2Pacalypse said:

This 100% true, me and a friend playing 2 player career and we have nearly the same delta and nearly the same driving style. We have the same problems at same circuits, and we tried to test the opposite sliders.

No impact at all....

We were able to recognize our problems and knew exactly what we were lacking in terms of performance, but we could not say which setting parameter we could change to the right direction.

 

 

 

It’s a mess, mate. Mess. 

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7 hours ago, Badmayhem said:

Marioho......i think ya got the on/off throttle on preset 2 mixed up with the balanced preset. Thanks for the info though.

 

Indeed! I copied the code block and was messing around to delete the Preset 3 "column". Messed up for real then haha

Anyway, the real values for power and coast differentials on Preset 2 make sense when considering the P1 | P2 | P4 | P5 series, with the Default P3 being a jack of all trades kind of setup. 

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On 8/11/2021 at 4:04 PM, marioho said:

@SuperSet I'm at a loss in some aspects here too. The setups probably went through without a revising as they do seem disjointed at first glance. Let's play with them a bit though:

 Setting aside Preset 3 (Balanced/Default) we get:


                          	P1   	P2  	P4	P5
Front Wing Aero			11	8	7	5
Rear Wing Aero			10	5	4	2
Diff Adj ON Throttle		80%	75%	90%	100%
Diff Adj OFF Throttle		60%	75%	55%	65%
Front Camber			-3	-3	-3	-2.7
Rear Camber			-1.5	-1.5	-1.5	-1.2
Front Toe			0.1	0.1	0.1	0.07
Rear Toe			0.35	0.35	0.35	0.26
Front Suspension		5	7	7	4
Rear Suspension			2	2	2	1
Front Anti-Roll Bar		5	5	5	4
Rear Anti-Roll Bar		1	2	2	1
Front Ride Height		1	2	2	1
Rear Ride Height		6	6	6	5
Brake Pressure			100%	100%	100%	100%
Front Brake Bias		56%	56%	56%	57%
Front Right Tyre Press		22.2	22.2	23	25
Front Left Tyre Press		21.4	22.2	23	23.8
Rear Right Tyre Press		21.1	21.9	21.5	23.5
Rear Left Tyre Press		20.3	21.9	21.5	22.3

Leftmost preset being the max downforce and rightmost preset being the one with highest straight-line speed.

That makes way more sense. There's a rhyme to it.

  • You've got a reasonable decrease in rear wing angle the faster the setup. Rear wing is the major part responsible in producing downforce. Aerodynamic load, downforce... whenever you read this, think of weight and when you think of weight picture an increase on grip (+weight) or a decrease in grip (-weight). Front wing does have a significant impact on downforce, but it's more a tool for setting the aerodynamic balance of the car. Meaning, imagine the car going fast and under the aero load: more FW and the base platform of the car will be pitching slightly more forwards. giving more grip to the front end and somewhat unloading the rear end – less grip to the rear axle. It is the rear wing that will producing the bulk of the downforce – and the undesired drag.
    • You can painlessly increase the front wing angle of Presets 4 and 5. Just be mindful of how the car will behave on fast and medium speed corners. The more FW angle, the more you unload the rear. Increasing the FW angle will influence drag, but not by much. 
  • The on-throttle differential gets progressively locked the faster the setup, apart from Preset 1. Why? I think the devs are assuming P1 will be used that very particular set of tracks like Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. Check this modified table from the Pirelli assessment of the F1 2020 tracks:

1745200480_F12020Averagespeeds.png.2abf604a344b9445d4d68b6b8ac9e2f1.png

Check the average speeds of Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. See how they clearly greatly deviate from the rest? Yeah, these tracks are special. Specially slow. Hungary is even more special in that it is slow, but with fast straights that you'll be a fool to not take note of – and a downforce score of "4" by Pirelli.

Anyway, these tracks are skewed with a predominance of slow corners. They're not balanced at all. Makes sense that the devs envisioned the P1 for them and set a on-throttle diff. more on the closed side of things. It helps on completing the rotation out of those slow corners and hairpins. Had those tracks more corners of medium to high speeds, it would pay dividends to open up the on-throttle diff. so that the rear of the car doesn't step out when exiting those bends. 

Preset 1 makes sense this way, if you see it as intended for Monaco and Singapore. 

  • Suspension wise, it makes sense to have a soft setup for Preset 1. And given the lower aero loads on those tracks (remember the average speeds), you can set a lower ride height (1-6 instead of the 2-6 of Preset 2) as the suspension won't have as tough of a job to keep the chassis' platform stable there. Now it seems to be the other way around, with Preset 5 deviating from the pack. Why does it go even softer on the suspensions?
    • Take a look at the abridged Pirelli table again and look for the other outlier. Can you see it? Right there at the feet of the Alps? Yes, Monza. Every other fast track (average speeds) has a not too shabby downforce score to show off: Silverstone (4), Red Bull Ring (3), Suzuka (3), Albert Park (4). Monza though not only is the fastest by a wide margin it also has the lowest downfoce score of the whole chart. That's because say one thing about the Temple of Speed, it's not very bendy. It has basically two major braking zones that are also chicanes, and that's it for the springs. So softer springs to give you mechanical grip is the way to go. Had it more corners to begin with, and corners of varying speeds, you'd be requiring a whole different kind of work from the suspension as it would have to keep the chassis stable under heavier loads of downforce, be responsive to the steering and so on. 

So yeah, Preset 1 is the Monaco/Singapore mould and Preset 5 is the "Monza designated preset", in my opinion.

Now there's Preset 3, the so-called Balanced/Default setup:


                         	
Front Wing Aero		    	8	
Rear Wing Aero		    	8	
Diff Adj ON Throttle		90%	
Diff Adj OFF Throttle		55%	
Front Camber			-3	
Rear Camber			-1.2
Front Toe			0.1
Rear Toe			0.41
Front Suspension		8	
Rear Suspension			2	
Front Anti-Roll Bar		8	
Rear Anti-Roll Bar		1	
Front Ride Height		3	
Rear Ride Height		7	
Brake Pressure		   	100%
Front Brake Bias	   	58%	
Front Right Tyre Press		22.2
Front Left Tyre Press		22.2
Rear Right Tyre Press		23.1
Rear Left Tyre Press		23.1

That's the "bugger off with this setup thing, I just want to go vroom vroom" setup. It can run in any track, literally any track. This is the plug and play setup. The "I'm too old to worry about numbers" setup. That's the setup for people that don't even know that there are setups in this game.

And it's perfect for them. 

Now, did I enjoy writing this? Not much. This should be better communicated by the game. Again, too opaque. @ShelbyUSA will probably have a kind word or two for this whole affair.

Thanks for the insight. I'll continue to tweak a few things here and there until I find what works best for me. Typically I can find a Youtube video on the matter. But it seems most are just videos on specific track setups, and not the science behind correctly setting up a car.

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On 8/10/2021 at 10:13 AM, marioho said:

@andrewiannixon you need to look at the numbers as a whole. The downforce is majorly dependent on front wing and rear wing angle values, yes, but:

  • The rear wing is the major player here. The front wing angle also affects downforce, but to a less extent.
  • You're also setting up your aerodynamic balance with those sliders. If that balance is in a given point, further to the rear or more to the front – it all affects the handling of the car and whether it will have a tendency to over or understeer. So a 3-5 setup is most likely producing less overall downforce than a 2-6 because of the rear wing angle playing a greater role, and you're probably also getting a more oversteery car with the latter as the air flowing over the surface is pushing the rear down more than it is doing for the front. 

Ride height will also influence downforce and the aero balance.

Do you have the numbers for all these settings? 

If what you say about the front and rear wing is true, then why does the top speed not change between a 1/11 wing setup and an 11/1 wing setup...all other things being equal?  On the previous version of the game I tested all possible combinations of wing angles and found that the front and rear wing are equally impactful on top speed, so I would assume that would also mean downforce and/or drag.  I haven't yet tested the new game to this extent, but I have compared top speeds between 1/11 and 11/1.

Edited by JOmNrES
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On 8/11/2021 at 8:11 PM, ShelbyUSA said:

For the first time... well, I am usually lost when these guys at codemasters release their game, and we blindly try to tune these cars without any insights from a telemetry tool. Regardless, this year, I am very very confused. I have been playing with all of different variations of the setups, and I can't feel really feel the changes in my wheel. There are small oversteery or understeery signals, but, nothing that says... I got too much toe or lack thereof. As a result, I started to play around with extremes to first feel the car through the wheel. Nada. There are some clues in terms of tire temps and tire wear.. but, nope. I can't tell. 

This led to start playing with the height. Something I can visually see. I had decreased it to 1/1. Very very hard to drive, but those changes are not visually represented in the game. The car isn't dragging. hmmm.. So, in turn, I increased it to 11/11... No changes. I took a screenshot to see. I had paused the game at turn 11 at Australia. Zero correlation. Of course, the camber/toe is not visually represented. Also, rollbar and springs are not shown visually as well when weaving back and forth. Of course, the wings are not reflected.

Regardless, and as a result, we need to rely on data. Need to first balance the car by running a practice. Temps staying at 212f/100c for softs. Front/Rear deg needs to be 50/50. Need to play with F/R roll bars and PSI to achieve it. I am lost with Aero, acceleration and off throttle lock. I know what they do, but, I am not knowing what the heck it means in this game as it relates to performance and durability. 

Closing thoughts...

As everyone is struggling to finish a league race (i.e. Australia in particular, especially, turn 1 and turn 11), this game is out of whack. There are some extreme consequences with Codemasters interpretation of their setups, coupled with not holding the lines on the track. 4 out of 20 very very quick and experienced league racers and a few esports qualifiers DNF at Australia. As I would love to give informative insights to understand what does what, this is the year that I am completely at a loss.

In summary, unless Codemasters fix it, I feel the game will need some genius to figure out the most reliable setups to finish OR we wait for Codemasters to water down the extreme weights they have assigned to each attributes associated with setups. 

David, we need some insights... Like we really need it. Again, most of our league racers can't finish a race. Most of the very predominate leagues are postponing due to not understanding. TT times that we can download are one thing, but, not applicable for racing. From previous years, we could get away of racing with a TT setup.... this year... no way. Regardless, something is out of whack and we need some clarification. @David Greco

@BarryBL@David Greco@SuperSet@marioho

 

I've had the opposite experience in many ways.  For the first time in a little while I feel like I'm back in the game with setups and for the most part reliably able to manipulate them to my liking.  I strongly disliked the trend of "meta" setups that developed, especially in 2020 which seemed artificial and cartoonish.

For the most part, I'm finding my setup inputs to be reflected predictably on track.  My only issue with this game in that regard is that I wish I could get more data from the game to understand the impact on the car rather than having to rely completely on feel in some cases.

I look forward to having an advantage in league racing again because I feel like I understand setups a little better than some and in this game they seem to be important once again with many different combinations being effective.

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@JOmNrES yeah, I mixed things up in here to an extent. I conflated two things and spat out a mouthful of bull. What I conflated: 

  • The aerodynamic efficiency of front and rear wings;
  • The fact that the main job of the front wing is to control the airflow over (and under) the bodywork of the car, though it still generates a considerable amount of downforce. 

To not stray off the topic too much, I'll get to the gist of the game first. Looks like whatever the inner workings of the setup system are, the front and rear wing angles sliders increments overall drag equally. I did some test runs:

  • 1-11 and 11-1 wings indeed resulted in the same top speed;
  • 8-4 and 4-8 wings resulted in the same top speed.
  • Regarding top speeds, 1-1 > 8-4 | 4-8 | 1-11 | 11-1 > 11-11 
FW	RW	Top Speed
11	11	311
8	4	317
11	1	317
4	8	318
1	11	318
1	1	321

At first I thought you were probably not factoring in the DRS when doing your runs, but I got those values while keeping it closed all the time. Tested by turning one automatic transmision, full traction control and doing a standing start from the DRS activation line on the Monza starting straight, with measurements taken at the braking point to the first chicane. 

What this test really shows though is drag. To properly gauge the downforce generation of front and rear wing angles we should be comparing whole laps. Lap times and average speeds. Downforce is all about cornering. I'll give it a go sometime.

The front and rear wing sliders in the game are still key to set the aero centre of pressure of the car, its aerodynamic balance. How much of the overall downforce acts on the front axle vs how much acts on the rear axle, with the balance determining your tendency to over or understeer on high and medium speed corners.

I got things wrong nonetheless. In real life, downforce wise front and rear wings contributions are comparable. It surely varies with the aerodynamic concept of the car, car spec, and the setup, but it's the downforce generated by car component is usually along the lines of 24/25/52 and 22/22/57 percent for front wing/rear wing/underfloor:

image.png.d4fe02ae860aa5041d6c0fa11fd1305b.png

(Source 1, CFD simulation based on a 2017 spec car)

groundeffect-downforcefractions.png  

(Source 2)

Where FW and RW varies significantly is in their aero efficiency, their downforce-to-drag ratio. As seen above and in here:

image.png.34cc84024bdaa3c15f09fa7e0b8b0e29.png

(Source 1 again)

All this bucketload of nerdy stuff to say that I messed up and should have said that front wing has a lower impact on drag than the rear wing, and yet that's completely useless because the game treats them the same in this aspect 🤣

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On 8/14/2021 at 7:40 AM, JOmNrES said:

I've had the opposite experience in many ways.  For the first time in a little while I feel like I'm back in the game with setups and for the most part reliably able to manipulate them to my liking.  I strongly disliked the trend of "meta" setups that developed, especially in 2020 which seemed artificial and cartoonish.

For the most part, I'm finding my setup inputs to be reflected predictably on track.  My only issue with this game in that regard is that I wish I could get more data from the game to understand the impact on the car rather than having to rely completely on feel in some cases.

I look forward to having an advantage in league racing again because I feel like I understand setups a little better than some and in this game they seem to be important once again with many different combinations being effective.

Agreed and great perspective 

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17 hours ago, marioho said:

@JOmNrES yeah, I mixed things up in here to an extent. I conflated two things and spat out a mouthful of bull. What I conflated: 

  • The aerodynamic efficiency of front and rear wings;
  • The fact that the main job of the front wing is to control the airflow over (and under) the bodywork of the car, though it still generates a considerable amount of downforce. 

To not stray off the topic too much, I'll get to the gist of the game first. Looks like whatever the inner workings of the setup system are, the front and rear wing angles sliders increments overall drag equally. I did some test runs:

  • 1-11 and 11-1 wings indeed resulted in the same top speed;
  • 8-4 and 4-8 wings resulted in the same top speed.
  • Regarding top speeds, 1-1 > 8-4 | 4-8 | 1-11 | 11-1 > 11-11 


FW	RW	Top Speed
11	11	311
8	4	317
11	1	317
4	8	318
1	11	318
1	1	321

At first I thought you were probably not factoring in the DRS when doing your runs, but I got those values while keeping it closed all the time. Tested by turning one automatic transmision, full traction control and doing a standing start from the DRS activation line on the Monza starting straight, with measurements taken at the braking point to the first chicane. 

What this test really shows though is drag. To properly gauge the downforce generation of front and rear wing angles we should be comparing whole laps. Lap times and average speeds. Downforce is all about cornering. I'll give it a go sometime.

The front and rear wing sliders in the game are still key to set the aero centre of pressure of the car, its aerodynamic balance. How much of the overall downforce acts on the front axle vs how much acts on the rear axle, with the balance determining your tendency to over or understeer on high and medium speed corners.

I got things wrong nonetheless. In real life, downforce wise front and rear wings contributions are comparable. It surely varies with the aerodynamic concept of the car, car spec, and the setup, but it's the downforce generated by car component is usually along the lines of 24/25/52 and 22/22/57 percent for front wing/rear wing/underfloor:

image.png.d4fe02ae860aa5041d6c0fa11fd1305b.png

(Source 1, CFD simulation based on a 2017 spec car)

groundeffect-downforcefractions.png  

(Source 2)

Where FW and RW varies significantly is in their aero efficiency, their downforce-to-drag ratio. As seen above and in here:

image.png.34cc84024bdaa3c15f09fa7e0b8b0e29.png

(Source 1 again)

All this bucketload of nerdy stuff to say that I messed up and should have said that front wing has a lower impact on drag than the rear wing, and yet that's completely useless because the game treats them the same in this aspect 🤣

Honestly. Whoa. You need to be employed either by Codemasters or a friggin F1 team. You+ OCD = progress 

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17 hours ago, marioho said:

@JOmNrES yeah, I mixed things up in here to an extent. I conflated two things and spat out a mouthful of bull. What I conflated: 

  • The aerodynamic efficiency of front and rear wings;
  • The fact that the main job of the front wing is to control the airflow over (and under) the bodywork of the car, though it still generates a considerable amount of downforce. 

To not stray off the topic too much, I'll get to the gist of the game first. Looks like whatever the inner workings of the setup system are, the front and rear wing angles sliders increments overall drag equally. I did some test runs:

  • 1-11 and 11-1 wings indeed resulted in the same top speed;
  • 8-4 and 4-8 wings resulted in the same top speed.
  • Regarding top speeds, 1-1 > 8-4 | 4-8 | 1-11 | 11-1 > 11-11 

FW	RW	Top Speed
11	11	311
8	4	317
11	1	317
4	8	318
1	11	318
1	1	321

At first I thought you were probably not factoring in the DRS when doing your runs, but I got those values while keeping it closed all the time. Tested by turning one automatic transmision, full traction control and doing a standing start from the DRS activation line on the Monza starting straight, with measurements taken at the braking point to the first chicane. 

What this test really shows though is drag. To properly gauge the downforce generation of front and rear wing angles we should be comparing whole laps. Lap times and average speeds. Downforce is all about cornering. I'll give it a go sometime.

The front and rear wing sliders in the game are still key to set the aero centre of pressure of the car, its aerodynamic balance. How much of the overall downforce acts on the front axle vs how much acts on the rear axle, with the balance determining your tendency to over or understeer on high and medium speed corners.

I got things wrong nonetheless. In real life, downforce wise front and rear wings contributions are comparable. It surely varies with the aerodynamic concept of the car, car spec, and the setup, but it's the downforce generated by car component is usually along the lines of 24/25/52 and 22/22/57 percent for front wing/rear wing/underfloor:

image.png.d4fe02ae860aa5041d6c0fa11fd1305b.png

(Source 1, CFD simulation based on a 2017 spec car)

groundeffect-downforcefractions.png  

(Source 2)

Where FW and RW varies significantly is in their aero efficiency, their downforce-to-drag ratio. As seen above and in here:

image.png.34cc84024bdaa3c15f09fa7e0b8b0e29.png

(Source 1 again)

All this bucketload of nerdy stuff to say that I messed up and should have said that front wing has a lower impact on drag than the rear wing, and yet that's completely useless because the game treats them the same in this aspect 🤣

@David Greco @BarryBL I know you guys get tagged with quite a few post. I am surely it’s annoying and can’t please everyone. I get it. @marioho has done quite a bit of work. Actually, we all have, but marioho has gone above an human to understand the unexplainable math behind Codemasters logic. Other other words, can you engage with the community please? Not sure if you log on or not, but I think this post is worthy to engage. 

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22 hours ago, marioho said:

@JOmNrES yeah, I mixed things up in here to an extent. I conflated two things and spat out a mouthful of bull. What I conflated: 

  • The aerodynamic efficiency of front and rear wings;
  • The fact that the main job of the front wing is to control the airflow over (and under) the bodywork of the car, though it still generates a considerable amount of downforce. 

To not stray off the topic too much, I'll get to the gist of the game first. Looks like whatever the inner workings of the setup system are, the front and rear wing angles sliders increments overall drag equally. I did some test runs:

  • 1-11 and 11-1 wings indeed resulted in the same top speed;
  • 8-4 and 4-8 wings resulted in the same top speed.
  • Regarding top speeds, 1-1 > 8-4 | 4-8 | 1-11 | 11-1 > 11-11 

FW	RW	Top Speed
11	11	311
8	4	317
11	1	317
4	8	318
1	11	318
1	1	321

At first I thought you were probably not factoring in the DRS when doing your runs, but I got those values while keeping it closed all the time. Tested by turning one automatic transmision, full traction control and doing a standing start from the DRS activation line on the Monza starting straight, with measurements taken at the braking point to the first chicane. 

What this test really shows though is drag. To properly gauge the downforce generation of front and rear wing angles we should be comparing whole laps. Lap times and average speeds. Downforce is all about cornering. I'll give it a go sometime.

The front and rear wing sliders in the game are still key to set the aero centre of pressure of the car, its aerodynamic balance. How much of the overall downforce acts on the front axle vs how much acts on the rear axle, with the balance determining your tendency to over or understeer on high and medium speed corners.

I got things wrong nonetheless. In real life, downforce wise front and rear wings contributions are comparable. It surely varies with the aerodynamic concept of the car, car spec, and the setup, but it's the downforce generated by car component is usually along the lines of 24/25/52 and 22/22/57 percent for front wing/rear wing/underfloor:

image.png.d4fe02ae860aa5041d6c0fa11fd1305b.png

(Source 1, CFD simulation based on a 2017 spec car)

groundeffect-downforcefractions.png  

(Source 2)

Where FW and RW varies significantly is in their aero efficiency, their downforce-to-drag ratio. As seen above and in here:

image.png.34cc84024bdaa3c15f09fa7e0b8b0e29.png

(Source 1 again)

All this bucketload of nerdy stuff to say that I messed up and should have said that front wing has a lower impact on drag than the rear wing, and yet that's completely useless because the game treats them the same in this aspect 🤣

@marioho you channel the same energy I have for this stuff, except you take the time to research and write it down.  Thanks for such an over the top response!  Haha.  I hope I can contribute more and maybe collaborate with guys like you on this kind of stuff.  It’s all fun for me.

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