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To carry over what was said In another thread I pointed out a drastic section of removal, in Austria they have cut a massive valley out of the trees as you go up the hill towards the final corners, making it look nothing like the real life track, for them to do this particularly where for the past five years players have been demanding more realistic tracks is drastic. Interestingly the prevailing theory is that much of the downgrades where done to allow the games split screen feature which began to feature last year

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Edited by TomAAA
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2 hours ago, TomAAA said:

Yes it did. I almost spun in a league race as I was chasing someone I got distracted by birds flying past and as we came out of the corner a good bit of dirt or something in the air flew back towards me catching me off guard lol.

2020 carried over those effects, had some new lighting but downgrading assets and scenery. 2021 seems to have went a step further by keeping that downgrade but also removing the 'atmospheric assets' your speaking about. I can see maybe why it was needed for extra processing space for the lower end console, but it really should have been different for the next gen consoles/PC, they should have gotten all the bells and whistles back

I feel like the case for F1 2020 was this…

the game is developed for the lowest denominator, in this case the original Xbox One, but the addition of MyTeam and the additional processing power needed to have 22 cars on track as a pose to the 20 maximum on F1 2019 meant some assets had to be tweaked or removed to make way. Hence why the trees were reduced and a more simplified asset was used.  
 

If I remember back when I was running the games on PS4 slim the older titles were always prone to fair amounts of screen tearing, one positive thing about the changes to F1 2020, even on PS4 slim or the original non-pro model, the performance of the game was rock solid and never noticed any screen tearing anywhere during gameplay. 
 

I feel like F1 2021, although with its 4K resolution on the next gen consoles is still being massively castrated and held back by the limitations of those assets being used to keep the performance of the game playable on the original Xbox One model.  
I feel like there really needs to be a far more obvious difference with the next gen versions of the game. All those bells and whistles that used to be there from earlier games, the particle effects, higher quality assets prior to the changes made for F1 2020 need to be added back in and I’m sure once we get to that point the game from a visual standpoint will look stunning.  The potentials there, and from certain shots in the game it does look absolutely gorgeous, but more often than not those downgraded assets and cutbacks really don’t look great at all.

 

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2 hours ago, TomAAA said:

To carry over what was said In another thread I pointed out a drastic section of removal, in Austria they have cut a massive valley out of the trees as you go up the hill towards the final corners, making it look nothing like the real life track, for them to do this particularly where for the past five years players have been demanding more realistic tracks is drastic. Interestingly the prevailing theory is that much of the downgrades where done to allow the games split screen feature which began to feature last year

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To me that hill change is actually an example of a good type of optimisation, in that I'm sure 99% of players don't notice or care. I'm only aware of it as I've read this.

Something that probably will be more obvious to most players is the way gravel now gets stuck to tyres if you drive through a gravel trap, which correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think happened in F1 2020?

Different compromises will matter more to different people.

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8 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

To me that hill change is actually an example of a good type of optimisation, in that I'm sure 99% of players don't notice or care. I'm only aware of it as I've read this.

Something that probably will be more obvious to most players is the way gravel now gets stuck to tyres if you drive through a gravel trap, which correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think happened in F1 2020?

Different compromises will matter more to different people.

It's a testament to how good the game looks overall that discussions are around the minutiae of the surroundings and the shade of green used for trees. 

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1 hour ago, Ultra3142 said:

To me that hill change is actually an example of a good type of optimisation, in that I'm sure 99% of players don't notice or care. I'm only aware of it as I've read this.

Something that probably will be more obvious to most players is the way gravel now gets stuck to tyres if you drive through a gravel trap, which correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think happened in F1 2020?

Different compromises will matter more to different people.

Exactly. Trees are expensive to render. This is something most people won't notice. I'm extremely nitpicky when it comes to track details and even I didn't notice it until now.
I'd rather sacrifice some trees than lose details on the actual track.
 

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Interesting discussion here.

For what it’s worth, I believe the trees are of a higher detail quality in 2021, though bear in mind I capture screenshots at max quality settings and I don’t know how they LOD down to lower specs or console.

I’m not the authority on this, just giving a personal opinion 🙂 

Here’s 2 screens, same corner.

image.png

image.png

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4 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

Interesting discussion here.

For what it’s worth, I believe the trees are of a higher detail quality in 2021, though bear in mind I capture screenshots at max quality settings and I don’t know how they LOD down to lower specs or console.

 

 

We are comparing to F1 2019 not the downgraded 2020 game 

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Just now, TomAAA said:

We are comparing to F1 2019 not the downgraded 2020 game 

Ah thanks for clarifying.

I wasn’t as knee-deep in ‘19 as I’d just joined Codies, but just pointing out there was seemingly a change from ‘20 to ‘21. 🙂 

Fascinating thread though, keep the discussion going.

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Just now, PJTierney said:

Ah thanks for clarifying.

I wasn’t as knee-deep in ‘19 as I’d just joined Codies, but just pointing out there was seemingly a change from ‘20 to ‘21. 🙂 

Fascinating thread though, keep the discussion going.

No problem. Love your screenshots, used one as a wallpaper 🙂

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2 minutes ago, TomAAA said:

We are comparing to F1 2019 not the downgraded 2020 game 

F1 2020 debuted the virtual rear view mirror and even that feature has a cost on frame rate on even high end builds, setting aside split screen multiplayer. There are a benchmarks out there comparing the FPS with this feature on and off.

Split screen multiplayer has been laid off in the whole industry not because it fell out of favour from the players, but because of how costly it is to run on these systems.

No reason to strip this discussion down to just F1 2019 and 2021.

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36 minutes ago, marioho said:

F1 2020 debuted the virtual rear view mirror and even that feature has a cost on frame rate on even high end builds, setting aside split screen multiplayer. There are a benchmarks out there comparing the FPS with this feature on and off.

Split screen multiplayer has been laid off in the whole industry not because it fell out of favour from the players, but because of how costly it is to run on these systems.

No reason to strip this discussion down to just F1 2019 and 2021.

Think you’ve hit the nail on the head perfectly. F1 2019 did look better with more higher detailed assets in places, but all the additional features in F1 2020, plus the larger grid size to accommodate MyTeam definitely led to some cut backs to improve the games performance.  I mean on F1 2020 it’s a reasonable sacrifice.
 

But my issue is, F1 2021 features no classic cars, no particle effects and track details that were even present on F1 2020 and also a hugely obvious visual downgrade for wet weather conditions, …and that’s what they pass off as a “next gen” edition of the game. Surely those features that were present on earlier F1 games (minus the classic cars) should be included in the PC and Xbox Series/PS5 versions of the game and not be visually identical to an 8 year old Xbox One port?  
 

I get that the new consoles run the game at 4K, but at the cost of losing all the other visual effects that were present even just a year or 2 ago is just a bit underwhelming. Not to mention the current performance of the cut scenes in the game is pretty horrendous with laggy framerates and screen tearing on the new consoles.  It would be nice to add the option in game for enabling and disabling ray tracing (as I believe you can on PC), particularly if it affects the games performance that much. 

Edited by stephensmattlee
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@stephensmattlee I get you and I wish I was on PC right now to reply to you properly. Basically what I said on the previous page:

Quote

Usually, this tale ends with "yes we surely could bake to cakes but instead we were just given ingredients and time for one".

Oversimplification, obviously. But that's really common issue of development to multiple platforms. Here, compounded with having to develop to cross-gen systems too. On an annual franchise.

Games can run really well on cross gen, it's not a limiting factor set in stone. More often than not these good games are single entries and can more easily afford to be delayed

Even not having a PS5 I would still like to see these more advanced and richer features, assets etc being properly available on next gen consoles. It would be great if they allocated part of the planned post-launch production and support for 2021 to deliver on these. I'm afraid though that doesn't rank that high on their priority list as, in a way, it is already scheduled for the development cycle of F1 2022 or and 2023, when they can safely ditch development for last gen hardware.

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1 hour ago, marioho said:

@stephensmattlee I get you and I wish I was on PC right now to reply to you properly. Basically what I said on the previous page:

Even not having a PS5 I would still like to see these more advanced and richer features, assets etc being properly available on next gen consoles. It would be great if they allocated part of the planned post-launch production and support for 2021 to deliver on these. I'm afraid though that doesn't rank that high on their priority list as, in a way, it is already scheduled for the development cycle of F1 2022 or and 2023, when they can safely ditch development for last gen hardware.

Jumping to codemasters defence here.

for us it’s easy as external observers to point at and be critical off what codemasters have done wrong.

but internally it couldn’t have been all fun and games.  Firstly as the game is annually released.  It must be released on deadline.  Then it’s crossover off old gen and next gen. (no developer ever utilises next gen consoles potential straight away) then ea take over.  And lastly every industry except e-commerce has suffered from covid.   They have hadt to work with all these issues hanging over their head at the same time. Doesnt make what they have done right.  But can understand how those challenges have effected the end result. Personally I’d rather delay or miss the years release entirely than launch.  But I’m sure smarter people than me weighed up all this beforehand and simply got it wrong and the less smarter me was right🤘😃

Edited by ScaredDuck
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Following on from my last post let’s not take lightly the effects covid may have had on the developers themselves.  From having caught the virus or dealing with those close to them who have.

my mum went to hospital with a minor heart complaint. Caught covid in hospital.  For 3 weeks she fought it and beat it.  But left her heart so weak it gave out on her on the 30th January.  For the last 3 weeks off her life only contact I had with her was over the phone. I to this day havnt made peace with it. 

Sorry for putting a downer on things but let’s keep some perspective 

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19 minutes ago, ScaredDuck said:

Following on from my last post let’s not take lightly the effects covid may have had on the developers themselves.  From having caught the virus or dealing with those close to them who have.

my mum went to hospital with a minor heart complaint. Caught covid in hospital.  For 3 weeks she fought it and beat it.  But left her heart so weak it gave out on her on the 30th January.  For the last 3 weeks off her life only contact I had with her was over the phone. I to this day havnt made peace with it. 

Sorry for putting a downer on things but let’s keep some perspective 

Ah man that really really sucks, I’m really sorry to hear that.  I know there’s been lots of people affected by covid and you’re absolutely right, we don’t know the circumstances of what goes on behind the scenes at Codemasters and how much of an impact on them this ****** virus has had on a personal level.  
Despite my criticisms of this years game I certainly don’t point any blame at all at the developers themselves but only those higher up that obviously set them an impossible task and deceitfully deemed the game ready when it clearly wasn’t.  The senior suits in charge deserve all the criticism and backlash the games currently getting, but I genuinely feel for the developers themselves that are most probably being crunched to desperately get the game to the state it should have been for its release.  

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7 minutes ago, stephensmattlee said:

Ah man that really really sucks, I’m really sorry to hear that.  I know there’s been lots of people affected by covid and you’re absolutely right, we don’t know the circumstances of what goes on behind the scenes at Codemasters and how much of an impact on them this ****** virus has had on a personal level.  
Despite my criticisms of this years game I certainly don’t point any blame at all at the developers themselves but only those higher up that obviously set them an impossible task and deceitfully deemed the game ready when it clearly wasn’t.  The senior suits in charge deserve all the criticism and backlash the games currently getting, but I genuinely feel for the developers themselves that are most probably being crunched to desperately get the game to the state it should have been for its release.  

As Gaming has become more corporate it does suck it’s the money men that now decide when a game is released.  It’s obvious those coding the games know if it’s ready or not.  And I find it hard if not impossible to believe any one involved in coding the game would want to release it before it’s ready

Edited by ScaredDuck
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15 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Interesting discussion here.

For what it’s worth, I believe the trees are of a higher detail quality in 2021, though bear in mind I capture screenshots at max quality settings and I don’t know how they LOD down to lower specs or console.

I’m not the authority on this, just giving a personal opinion 🙂 

Here’s 2 screens, same corner.

image.png

image.png

My problem with these trees is the pine (?) tree, as in, the tree with the pointy top is very recognizable and you can see how repetitive it is when it’s spammed alongside the tracks, especially at Spa. There needs to be some variation or it should be made to look more generic so the repetitiveness isn’t so obvious. 

Minor complaint, but yeah :P

 

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3 hours ago, CptBalloonhands said:

My problem with these trees is the pine (?) tree, as in, the tree with the pointy top is very recognizable and you can see how repetitive it is when it’s spammed alongside the tracks, especially at Spa. There needs to be some variation or it should be made to look more generic so the repetitiveness isn’t so obvious. 

Minor complaint, but yeah 😛

 

Its not just the trees being the same , there just isn't enough wild life around where's all the Dicky birds and the rabbits , hedgehogs etc , I know there has been covid but they really need to up their game , its alright for people who are concentrating on the virtual track when they are racing around it ; but for people like us who are looking at the countryside when we are racing where's the realism , Talking specifically about SPA I haven't seen one squirrel yet and that's just ridiculous in a wooded area , like you said a minor complaint and not an essential for racing but Codies should address this because it just isn't realistic , abit like driving in T-Cam.

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