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Audio / SoundFX discussion


TuliRally

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Reverb settings in 0.8v : If my memory serves me correct there was talk about changes made in 0.8 v reverb settings on ambience (in replays) at least in Finland stages and depending on peoples reaction it would be enhanced overall in the game if liked.

I like it and think it really is the right direction. It really sounds great to hear that engine roar from distance like demonic beast closing in on its prey.

 This upped up reverb gets +1 from me

Symbolism aside one problem is that there is only couple cam angles to really let you hear those filter and reverb settings in use. (Replay cameras have multiple discussions already) One thing i have noticed being a difference with being really in the stage and replays on TV is that you can hear car coming from quite far IRL vs sometimes on TV only close. (This depends on many factors though).
In both cases sound is high on reverb and filtered even from relatively close distances with mechanical engine sounds linearly coming to play and then exhaust sounds exploding to your face so to speak.

This leading to one improvement suggestion Improvement suggestion to be discussed:

More dynamic and even slightly distorted sound for an passing car (spectator cam angle).
Exhaust sound coming to play after car has passed you seems to be already there, my opinion is that it lacks somewhat dynamics and distortion that happens IRL and when being recorded.
A way to achieve this ear shattering effect leaves room to discussion with ways to achieve this that can be found propably from example changing dynamics or using clever distortion. There is always the question: would it work in a game? (Discussion about reverb and better dynamics to achieve similar things in RFactor can be found from the interwebs.. i try to find it)


Spectator sound is something to be enhaced as well, but this is already being looked by the devs. Importance of sound should not be underestimated (having an great effect on subconciuss level) and with this title already doing great in this aspect these are just minor improvemts ideas. 
Importance of sound can be heard when looking RBR footage with real sounds. It really makes a difference.

To SoundFx team i want to tell you. Great work and keep that reverb coming, impulse responses filtering, our engines roaring and get jthat crowd screaming! Thank you CM and SoundFx
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TuliRally said:
Reverb settings in 0.8v : If my memory serves me correct there was talk about changes made in 0.8 v reverb settings on ambience (in replays) at least in Finland stages and depending on peoples reaction it would be enhanced overall in the game if liked.

I like it and think it really is the right direction. It really sounds great to hear that engine roar from distance like demonic beast closing in on its prey.

 This upped up reverb gets +1 from me
+1. Finnish reverb sounds fantastic.
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Thanks for starting this thread. It's high time some developers start to realise that exemplary sound is just as important as exemplary graphics. Particularly in car games. Having said this, Codemasters are doing a fine job so far.

The engine, exhaust and surface sounds are all great. My only gripe is that they're not unique enough. They are using a lot of stock sounds and sounds from their previous games. I highly doubt they're going to get many more genuine recordings done before the (imminent) release. I also realise that it can be very difficult to get sound engineers out to record some of these (very rare) machines. Short of being able to do the physical recordings, surely they're able to do some wizardry using video samples. I've even seen someone on these forums produce much more accurate sounds for the escort rs simply using Youtube clips (I believe).
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Thanks for starting this thread. It's high time some developers start to realise that exemplary sound is just as important as exemplary graphics. Particularly in car games. Having said this, Codemasters are doing a fine job so far.

The engine, exhaust and surface sounds are all great. My only gripe is that they're not unique enough. They are using a lot of stock sounds and sounds from their previous games. I highly doubt they're going to get many more genuine recordings done before the (imminent) release. I also realise that it can be very difficult to get sound engineers out to record some of these (very rare) machines. Short of being able to do the physical recordings, surely they're able to do some wizardry using video samples. I've even seen someone on these forums produce much more accurate sounds for the escort rs simply using Youtube clips (I believe).
They were using the audio of the Focus touring car from GRID Autosport, since both games use Audiokinetics WWise audio engine.
Not sure if actual audio modding is even possible, even with the non-commercial free version of WWise.

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"they're not unique enough. They are using a lot of stock sounds and sounds from their previous games."
Total agree.  Lot of car use combination of engines, but they're all the same. let's see Ford Focus 2001. that exhaust sound is far from the sound of the real car. Since someone send his audio files which were recorded on a real Subaru, Imprezas getting live with real boxer exhaust sounds.

Codemasters dev team do a great job, and i respect it because i know to find a good sound sample for exhaust sound on the Net (it is impossible)
I'm afraid that every exhaust sound of every model should record on a dyno.That is impossible job too.

May there are some audio parameters exist, which could help a bit (as we found in the case of RBR, we we're able to play with parametric EQs)

For example the 2001 Focus exhaust sound pitch if too high (on full throttle ,  on high RPMs).
Could we lower a bit somehow?

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mesa said:

I'm afraid that every exhaust sound of every model should record on a dyno.That is impossible job too.



I disagree with that. Recording a car on a dyno doesn't give the proper effect as it's not under the same amount of load as it would be on Tarmac or gravel. The way they record the cars at the moment is perfect. the 306 Maxi is the best rally car in any game, ever :D
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I disagree with that. Recording a car on a dyno doesn't give the proper effect as it's not under the same amount of load as it would be on Tarmac or gravel. The way they record the cars at the moment is perfect. the 306 Maxi is the best rally car in any game, ever :D
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also the very fact that the dyno itself makes a rather loud noise. So in order to nullify that in some way you're effectively lowering the quality of the sound you want to record. But again, I'm not a sound engineer, so I may be wrong on this one.
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G37L057 said:
I disagree with that. Recording a car on a dyno doesn't give the proper effect as it's not under the same amount of load as it would be on Tarmac or gravel. The way they record the cars at the moment is perfect. the 306 Maxi is the best rally car in any game, ever :D
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also the very fact that the dyno itself makes a rather loud noise. So in order to nullify that in some way you're effectively lowering the quality of the sound you want to record. But again, I'm not a sound engineer, so I may be wrong on this one.
Dynos are not usually outside either.  Lots of echo/reverb and distortion in a cave/garage.
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I disagree with that. Recording a car on a dyno doesn't give the proper effect as it's not under the same amount of load as it would be on Tarmac or gravel. The way they record the cars at the moment is perfect. the 306 Maxi is the best rally car in any game, ever :D
You are talking about just additional sound effects, which all can re-produce real time playing the game.
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mesa said:
I disagree with that. Recording a car on a dyno doesn't give the proper effect as it's not under the same amount of load as it would be on Tarmac or gravel. The way they record the cars at the moment is perfect. the 306 Maxi is the best rally car in any game, ever :D
You are talking about just additional sound effects, which all can re-produce real time playing the game.
No, he specifically referred to engine load. A car engine on a dyno doesn't behave or sound exactly like it does when actually driving for real.
The noise from the dyno itself is also unavoidable. It's a pretty loud, high pitched whirring from the rollers spinning so fast. That has to be filtered out in post, which is going to lead to an inevitable loss of nuance.
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How are they creating echo and reverb in this game. I have been out of the audio production game so to speak for a while ( i have an 2-year old daughter ). Is it using just impulse responses and more "traditional" effects or is there nowdays a way to trace sound similar to ray tracing used with light in graphics.

Btw question for Cmsoundfx or anyone who knows:
[This is related to people (myself included) hoping more unique and varied engine sounds.]
Are you using procedul audio to make engine sound (combined with real recordings) or have you tested it and what is your thoughts about it? 

One more thing. I have already talk about clever distortion etc. To get more presence for engine and exhaust sounds in some situations. Now that i started to think more one prominent thing arises why sometimes in real spaces engines sounds so harsh and raw. They are over powering most echos and reverb from far when near (still our brain is very good picking things up, notice you them or not) and this happens with big soundsystem setups when playing loud, but in this case engine sounds are still creating and usually having an layer of early echos you can hear making an multiplied effect with variable frequency masked effect thus propably creating kind of chorus like effect making everything sound "big".  

I guess my point being that maybe this is one way you could put more oomph to engine sounds.




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BrySkye said:
You are talking about just additional sound effects, which all can re-produce real time playing the game.
A car engine on a dyno doesn't behave or sound exactly like it does when actually driving for real.
I know about that Dnyo issue, but wait for a momoent, i 'm still talking about Exhaust sound, not engine sound. 

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Have you guys played Automation Car company game. That game has some nice engine sounds and they change depending on setup / engine configuration and feel really live and unique. Not super realitistic but responding.

These guys made most of the sound (and sound engine i guess) in that game
http://sonory.org/

I am guessing they use procedural audio.








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TuliRally said:
Reverb settings in 0.8v : If my memory serves me correct there was talk about changes made in 0.8 v reverb settings on ambience (in replays) at least in Finland stages and depending on peoples reaction it would be enhanced overall in the game if liked.

Symbolism aside one problem is that there is only couple cam angles to really let you hear those filter and reverb settings in use. (Replay cameras have multiple discussions already) One thing i have noticed being a difference with being really in the stage and replays on TV is that you can hear car coming from quite far IRL vs sometimes on TV only close. (This depends on many factors though).
In both cases sound is high on reverb and filtered even from relatively close distances with mechanical engine sounds linearly coming to play and then exhaust sounds exploding to your face so to speak. :

More dynamic and even slightly distorted sound for an passing car (spectator cam angle).
Exhaust sound coming to play after car has passed you seems to be already there, my opinion is that it lacks somewhat dynamics and distortion that happens IRL and when being recorded.
A way to achieve this ear shattering effect leaves room to discussion with ways to achieve this that can be found propably from example changing dynamics or using clever distortion. There is always the question: would it work in a game? (Discussion about reverb and better dynamics to achieve similar things in RFactor can be found from the interwebs.. i try to find it)
I believe what your thinking of is the Doppler effect, when the pitch and speed changes when the car passes a camera. Or are you talking about reverb like echos? If your talking about echo reverb, I'm no expert, but it would have to be put on a separate audio track to put a filter pass on just the echo reverb. For more accurate echos they would have to physically simulate soundwaves, which gets more intensive, especially along 3 dimensions.
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TuliRally said:
How are they creating echo and reverb in this game. I have been out of the audio production game so to speak for a while ( i have an 2-year old daughter ). Is it using just impulse responses and more "traditional" effects or is there nowdays a way to trace sound similar to ray tracing used with light in graphics.

Btw question for Cmsoundfx or anyone who knows:
[This is related to people (myself included) hoping more unique and varied engine sounds.]
Are you using procedul audio to make engine sound (combined with real recordings) or have you tested it and what is your thoughts about it? 

One more thing. I have already talk about clever distortion etc. To get more presence for engine and exhaust sounds in some situations. Now that i started to think more one prominent thing arises why sometimes in real spaces engines sounds so harsh and raw. They are over powering most echos and reverb from far when near (still our brain is very good picking things up, notice you them or not) and this happens with big soundsystem setups when playing loud, but in this case engine sounds are still creating and usually having an layer of early echos you can hear making an multiplied effect with variable frequency masked effect thus propably creating kind of chorus like effect making everything sound "big". 
Again , I'm no expert, but if there is reverb, it's most likely a simple reverb. to do a full 3-dimensional real time audio simulation is like bounce lighting, and intensive. I don't know anything about the WWise audio engine, but to do real time audio simulation from a moving object in an open location would be pretty awesome, even if it was just 1 or 2 bounces.
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Thank you @JZStudios 

Yes under all my rambling i was referring to reverb and reverb echos. Doppler effect of course playing part in all this. And you were correct on that 3-dimensional audio simulation bouncing on objects which i were thinking if used or not. I think you are correct that it really would be intensive to do and yet to be a realtime effect it would need some real computing power.

Distortortion especially  different depending on frequency band was first trickery i thought it could use to get some of those artifacts and charasteristics more pronounced and after watching more rally videos and thinking my experiences from this years Neste Oil Rally Finland i feel that most prominent thing to me is:

Reverb: It is even prominent and more hearable (sorry for my bad english) than it is even now and its in the "mix" much longer before overall loudness mask it momentarily to be heard again after car has passed. And of course its a bit more complex IRL. But in all respect to devs, i think they understand this things also even better than i do and also understands Wwise engine (which i haven't have time to explore). It just sometimes hard to look in the details when there is all that work to do and i hope they have now more time to put on details! Atleast @cmsoundfx seems really caring about details (this conclusion i base on his answers and tweets). And this is the reason i think they will come up with best solution if we just provided info what we think is missing.

I will write about that other thing i always notice to be prominent and maybe more indepth about reverb too in future but now i have take care off my family duties!
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  • 2 weeks later...
The new cars all have great sounds, and i think the Lancer has the right sound as well, but it sounds very high pitched, like the engine is N/A and goes to 12k RPMs or something (like the F2 Kit Cars), this car should sound a lot deeper

@OttoWilson 

I just said the same, both R4 cars are a little raspy.  BUT we seem to tune our rally cars differently here in the US from what is done in Europe.  Ours have TONS of antilag and turbo flutter.  I don't always here that in the European videos.  
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