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Portimao: Well done, Codemasters!


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@Luke1991

  • If the rear is swinging on entry it's your brakes, too much rearward bias and/or off-throttle diff is too low.
  • If the rear is swinging mid-corner you could be riding the kerbs too hard, or you're on-throttle at an awkward point in the elevation, or your car setup's too loose.
  • If the rear is swinging on corner exit you're either putting down too much throttle, accelerating over a crest or the on-throttle differential's too high, or the rear spring rate's too high.
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On 9/13/2021 at 5:04 PM, CptBalloonhands said:

@BarryBL @PJTierney Not sure if you can give us this information, but was this track laser-scanned? It certainly feels like it.

 

Here is my best lap so far 🙂

Default 'balanced' setup, medium traction control, auto gearbox, anti-lock brakes

 

Nice lap.

 

On a completely different note, the DRS beep is much louder than in cockpit view. It's still barely audible in cockpit view. They were supposed to have fixed it.

 

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On 9/14/2021 at 8:44 AM, FTBuzzard said:

yeah, but other companies would sell this free stuff despite being full price title. 

No they wouldn't. If FIFA came without Anfield and Old Trafford because they wanted to rush the game out asap to get your money, even EA wouldn't charge customers more to have them included. However, it's obviously a test to see how well the community takes it and it's clear that the community has taken it like mugs. EA/Codies now know that they don't even have to include the official F1 tracks in their official F1 games and the community will thank them for it.

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4 minutes ago, milook said:

Nice lap.

 

On a completely different note, the DRS beep is much louder than in cockpit view. It's still barely audible in cockpit view. They were supposed to have fixed it.

 

I play in cockpit view and the drs beep is quite audible on my end.

It could potentially be down to your audio device/setup. Some soundbars, speakers and tvs can have really bad audio leveling and eq, which will push some sounds and not others. And since the audio focus shifts depending on what view is used, thay could explain why the beep is quiet in cockpit and not in tv cam for you.

If your on pc, the cases front 3.5m audio can sometimes be underpowered, which can make some sounds get lost. Windows does have built in audio leveling for each individual audio output. Which can balance out the audio better. It can sometimes be beneficial to push 3.5m pc audio through an amplifier or mixer of some kind to boost the audio.

I push the audio out of the 3.5m on the back of my pc into a Yamaha mg12 analog mixer. So my audio gets a bit of boost from the mixer, due to it been a powered decive. It also has a pretty nautral eq by default, so the audio i hear in my headphones is quite even.

Usb headsets are hit and miss, and can often depend on how much you are willing to spend.

Wireless headsets and headphones can be equally hit and miss.

If your on console and using a headset through the 3.5m on the controllers. Then i am not sure there is a lot you can do.

3 minutes ago, milook said:

No they wouldn't. If FIFA came without Anfield and Old Trafford because they wanted to rush the game out asap to get your money, even EA wouldn't charge customers more to have them included. However, it's obviously a test to see how well the community takes it and it's clear that the community has taken it like mugs. EA/Codies now know that they don't even have to include the official F1 tracks in their official F1 games and the community will thank them for it.

I highly suspect that this is a rare "one off" due to how late some of the tracks for this years F1 calendar were announced. Which would have held Codemasters back on starting development of the tracks. Then they would have had to get hold of track data, photos, scans, measurements (ect) before they could become to build them. Which would have been far harder to gather than usual due to covid restrictions around the world.

By most accounts, racing game devs from mutiple studios often cite 8 to 9 months as been the minimum time required to recreate a race track for a video game. Even when using laser scanning data.

We are just now in the 9th month of the year.

Final approval for Portimao in the real F1 calendar was only granted at the start of March this year. So codemasters have theoretically only been working on the track for a period of 6 to 7 months at a bare minimum. So they have clearly worked their posteriors off to get this track out for this month.

It was a similar story with Jeddah also, which i gather would be the hardest track for Codemasters to recreate for the game. As there has been ongoing works at the real track to get it ready, and even then its only a temporary street circuit until a purpose built one is created to take its place. Which is probably why we get that one last.

As for Imola, i would have to make the assumption it is been heavily updated/recreated for f1 2021. Hence why we are still waiting for it.

I get that EA has some very money grubbing methods in place. But i think in this instance both EA and Codemasters should be given a little benefit of the doubt. Especially since the F1 video game license is known to be very strictly controlled by its management, due to F1 being considered the pinnacle of motor racing.

 

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13 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

I play in cockpit view and the drs beep is quite audible on my end.

It could potentially be down to your audio device/setup. Some soundbars, speakers and tvs can have really bad audio leveling and eq, which will push some sounds and not others. And since the audio focus shifts depending on what view is used, thay could explain why the beep is quiet in cockpit and not in tv cam for you.

If your on pc, the cases front 3.5m audio can sometimes be underpowered, which can make some sounds get lost. Windows does have built in audio leveling for each individual audio output. Which can balance out the audio better. It can sometimes be beneficial to push 3.5m pc audio through an amplifier or mixer of some kind to boost the audio.

I push the audio out of the 3.5m on the back of my pc into a Yamaha mg12 analog mixer. So my audio gets a bit of boost from the mixer, due to it been a powered decive. It also has a pretty nautral eq by default, so the audio i hear in my headphones is quite even.

Usb headsets are hit and miss, and can often depend on how much you are willing to spend.

Wireless headsets and headphones can be equally hit and miss.

If your on console and using a headset through the 3.5m on the controllers. Then i am not sure there is a lot you can do.

I highly suspect that this is a rare "one off" due to how late some of the tracks for this years F1 calendar were announced. Which would have held Codemasters back on starting development of the tracks. Then they would have had to get hold of track data, photos, scans, measurements (ect) before they could become to build them. Which would have been far harder to gather than usual due to covid restrictions around the world.

By most accounts, racing game devs from mutiple studios often cite 8 to 9 months as been the minimum time required to recreate a race track for a video game. Even when using laser scanning data.

We are just now in the 9th month of the year.

Final approval for Portimao in the real F1 calendar was only granted at the start of March this year. So codemasters have theoretically only been working on the track for a period of 6 to 7 months at a bare minimum. So they have clearly worked their posteriors off to get this track out for this month.

It was a similar story with Jeddah also, which i gather would be the hardest track for Codemasters to recreate for the game. As there has been ongoing works at the real track to get it ready, and even then its only a temporary street circuit until a purpose built one is created to take its place. Which is probably why we get that one last.

As for Imola, i would have to make the assumption it is been heavily updated/recreated for f1 2021. Hence why we are still waiting for it.

I get that EA has some very money grubbing methods in place. But i think in this instance both EA and Codemasters should be given a little benefit of the doubt. Especially since the F1 video game license is known to be very strictly controlled by its management, due to F1 being considered the pinnacle of motor racing.

 

There's nothing wrong with my audio setup. I play on console, using headphones and my audio is high quality. Codies made the DRS beep too quiet and they said they fixed it. They didn't. They fixed it for some people but not for others. Cockpit view on xbox one is still very quiet, although a tiny, tiny bit louder than it was on release.

Re tracks, you're exactly the type of apologist that EA love to have onboard. This is the official F1 game and it released without the official F1 tracks. We all paid full price for the game. We didn't get all the tracks. They should not have released it if it wasn't ready for release. It's scummy behaviour but it's generally accepted across the gaming community nowadays due to everyone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

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6 minutes ago, milook said:

Re tracks, you're exactly the type of apologist that EA love to have onboard. This is the official F1 game and it released without the official F1 tracks. We all paid full price for the game. We didn't get all the tracks. They should not have released it if it wasn't ready for release. It's scummy behaviour but it's generally accepted across the gaming community nowadays due to everyone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

Actually, if you trace back my posting history. I made it very clear well before the game released that I would personally have prefered Codemaster release the game in November or December, once all the tracks and feaures were completed. This is because I have a background in 3d modeling asset creation, and I understand from that past experiance how long it takes to recreate certion IRL things in the virtual world.

Infact, I will screengrab and link you the post in question to save time.

1824917500_oldpost.png.9f6a38c1c046e9d0bc99a722dd3031a8.png


As you can see, I am far from an "appologist". I am however a realist, and what we see on the outside; can be completely different when it comes to the actual inner workings. Licensing plays a great deal into when sports games are released, and in some ways Codemasters would be contractually bound to release the F1 title within a particular launch window of the real F1 season start. And again, given the current landscape around the world with regards to covid. I think Codemasters this year should get a semi-pass on this years title.

Next years is another story altogether, and if this happens again then. Serious questions would need to be asked.

If you are wanting to sound off through frustration, thats fair enough. But when you choose to throw shade at other users. Make sure you know what their posting history and stance on these matters is first and formost.

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1 hour ago, milook said:

No they wouldn't. If FIFA came without Anfield and Old Trafford because they wanted to rush the game out asap to get your money, even EA wouldn't charge customers more to have them included. However, it's obviously a test to see how well the community takes it and it's clear that the community has taken it like mugs. EA/Codies now know that they don't even have to include the official F1 tracks in their official F1 games and the community will thank them for it.

Everyone has made a personal decision on when/if to buy the game. Without access to sales data I think it's tough to really draw any conclusions. I'd obviously also argue that anyone who has made a considered decision to buy the game isn't a 'mug'!

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5 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

Actually, if you trace back my posting history. I made it very clear well before the game released that I would personally have prefered Codemaster release the game in November or December, once all the tracks and feaures were completed. This is because I have a background in 3d modeling asset creation, and I understand from that past experiance how long it takes to recreate certion IRL things in the virtual world.

Infact, I will screengrab and link you the post in question to save time.

1824917500_oldpost.png.9f6a38c1c046e9d0bc99a722dd3031a8.png


As you can see, I am far from an "appologist". I am however a realist, and what we see on the outside; can be completely different when it comes to the actual inner workings. Licensing plays a great deal into when sports games are released, and in some ways Codemasters would be contractually bound to release the F1 title within a particular launch window of the real F1 season start. And again, given the current landscape around the world with regards to covid. I think Codemasters this year should get a semi-pass on this years title.

Next years is another story altogether, and if this happens again then. Serious questions would need to be asked.

If you are wanting to sound off through frustration, thats fair enough. But when you choose to throw shade at other users. Make sure you know what their posting history and stance on these matters is first and formost.

Yes, fair enough, your post makes for an interesting read and I respect your standpoint. All I want to add is that, yes, it's been a bad period and it can't be easy working from home when you're coding for a game under strict deadlines, but then they should not have charged full price. We are getting into the realms of a game review here and I'd rather not derail the thread further, but customers have been short-changed massively this year, what with the bugs, glitches, performances from last season, 2021 tracks not included etc etc but we've still had to pay full price for the privilege.

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6 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

Everyone has made a personal decision on when/if to buy the game. Without access to sales data I think it's tough to really draw any conclusions. I'd obviously also argue that anyone who has made a considered decision to buy the game isn't a 'mug'!

Well, I guess it's subjective. I certainly consider myself to be a mug for buying at release and getting a far worse game than F12020, complete with bugs, glitches, last season's performances (even though IRL season 2021 was a few races in). I paid for a roster update, a retina-burning menu screen and last year's tracks (again). It's so EA. Codies and EA will make for a fantastic partnership.

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3 hours ago, milook said:

No they wouldn't. If FIFA came without Anfield and Old Trafford because they wanted to rush the game out asap to get your money, even EA wouldn't charge customers more to have them included. However, it's obviously a test to see how well the community takes it and it's clear that the community has taken it like mugs. EA/Codies now know that they don't even have to include the official F1 tracks in their official F1 games and the community will thank them for it.

Don't be so negative . The time it takes to make tracks with such a small team as codemasters are . Now with ea on board they have a bit more man power then this is something you should be happy about. You would be complaining if they had them at launch and you wanted Turkey etc etc . 

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2 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

Actually, if you trace back my posting history. I made it very clear well before the game released that I would personally have prefered Codemaster release the game in November or December, once all the tracks and feaures were completed. This is because I have a background in 3d modeling asset creation, and I understand from that past experiance how long it takes to recreate certion IRL things in the virtual world.

If you have a background in 3D Asset creation you should also understand that it would not have been financially feasible for Codemasters to release the game after the F1 season is literally over.
I would have also preferred to have all the tracks in the game at launch but due to the calendar being announced so late it wasn't possible and I much prefer the way they are doing it over having to skip a year or waiting until December to play the game.

Anyways, let's not let this thread turn into another "WHY DIDN'T THE TRACKS COME OUT RIGHT AWAY" thread, we have plenty of those already.

Edited by CptBalloonhands
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5 minutes ago, CptBalloonhands said:

If you have a background in 3D Asset creation you should also understand that it would not have been financially feasible for Codemasters to release the game after the F1 season is literally over.
I would have also preferred to have all the tracks in the game at launch but due to the calendar being announced so late it wasn't possible and I much prefer the way they are doing it over having to skip a year or waiting until December to play the game.

Anyways, let's not let this thread turn into another "WHY DIDN'T THE TRACKS COME OUT RIGHT AWAY" thread, we have plenty of those already.

Which is why i keep stressing that this year, for obvious reasons. Codemasters should have a semi pass. As its very evident that the covid pandemic is the biggest reason as to why F1 2021 has released in its current state. It is far from a normal circumstance for the F1 games to release with missing circuits. And why i have made it very clear that although i would have preferred to wait on a personal stand point, i understand why things are the way they are.

You appear to have ignored the second half of that post, where i make it very clear that Codemasters will have specific contractual obligations and deadlines for the realease window of the game. Which gives greater context to my previous post as a whole. For whatever reason, you left that aspect out.

Im far from going "WHY DIDNT THE TRACKS COME OUT RIGHT AWAY". As you put it.

 

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4 hours ago, milook said:

No they wouldn't. If FIFA came without Anfield and Old Trafford because they wanted to rush the game out asap to get your money, even EA wouldn't charge customers more to have them included. However, it's obviously a test to see how well the community takes it and it's clear that the community has taken it like mugs. EA/Codies now know that they don't even have to include the official F1 tracks in their official F1 games and the community will thank them for it.

I really don't see how it'd be fair to compare Portimao and Imola to Anfield and Old Trafford, venues that host Premier League games, the most prominent officially licensed league in the franchise, since... ever? Can we even name a season where they were not used?

The same goes for it being obviously a test. This suggests that the timeline for the track releases was a deliberate choice first and foremost and glosses over everything from the licensing, developing, and ROI standpoints – as @CptBalloonhands and @Ialyrn discussed.

4 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

Final approval for Portimao in the real F1 calendar was only granted at the start of March this year. So codemasters have theoretically only been working on the track for a period of 6 to 7 months at a bare minimum. So they have clearly worked their posteriors off to get this track out for this month.

This is absurd to the point of being laughable. I mean, to think that circumstances like these do not or at least should not impact the production pipeline of a game studio.

Those 6-7 months are not spent by a single dev plotting assets on Minecraft. Tracks, the necessary AI training and the integration with the different game modes are costly in all aspects. Work starting earlier would be a gamble on the track being included on the official calendar, risking those limited resources that are already budgeted and allocated with the constrains of an annual franchise. Work probably started earlier and encompassed other tracks too, but didn't go beyond pre-production or early production until the "final" calendar was finalized.

Personally I'd love for F1 2021 to have been delayed by one or two months given the state it was particularly for Xbox players, even if I didn't find any frustrating bugs on my side. I'd also prefer Codemasters ditching the annualized business model for good. But that "but it's the official game for the official season" patter is as tiring as it is disingenuous.

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You make a very good point @marioho. It actually wouldn't surprise me if Codemasters had a bunch of pre-production level racetracks laying around (Turkey, Mugello, etc.) which have just been brought to the block-out stage but not further. The general shape of the circuit may be there, some rough terrain around it but not much else. If not, it may be smart for the studio to start thinking about bringing most of the potential F1-grade circuits to that stage at least to be able to react more quickly to future calendar changes.

We need to remember that what happened in the last 2 years was not really a thing in the past. The calendars never changed much. Sure, F1 may have dropped or added a race here or there, but generally the calendar was stable and announced well in advance. The amount of last minute changes we've seen in the last couple years are crazy and unprecedented. Sadly, with the future of COVID still being uncertain it may become more common in the next few years at least so now could be a good time to prepare so that when the time comes the basic skeleton of each potential replacement track is already there. Just a thought.

Back on the topic of Portimao, I opened a bug report about this yesterday, but has anyone else noticed the red and white kerbs being extremely dark in some conditions?

curbs2.thumb.jpg.9bce706d97f88157d8b6095512ea7f98.jpgcurbs3.thumb.jpg.1fde66e661dfee4ac6d860d78285013e.jpgcurbs5.thumb.jpg.53cb9d76b5929949d1e96dc44a51d868.jpgcurbs1.thumb.jpg.d2122393437dfcc0bda842fb22b143af.jpg

Edited by CptBalloonhands
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On 9/14/2021 at 5:36 PM, Blackbird said:

This is an example of once devs really want a perfectly executed track they definitely can do it. I wish every single track on this game would've got this sort of a fantastic overhaul one day. 👍

The reason why Portimao seem so accurate, is probably because the data used in its creation, was taken from the PC2 version of the circuit, which was drone laser scanned.

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11 hours ago, PJTierney said:

@Luke1991

  • If the rear is swinging on entry it's your brakes, too much rearward bias and/or off-throttle diff is too low.
  • If the rear is swinging mid-corner you could be riding the kerbs too hard, or you're on-throttle at an awkward point in the elevation, or your car setup's too loose.
  • If the rear is swinging on corner exit you're either putting down too much throttle, accelerating over a crest or the on-throttle differential's too high, or the rear spring rate's too high.

Spent a few hours at it tonight and narrowed it down to my anti-roll bar settings. Had them dialled in nicely for the rest of the lap but the car was just too loose for turn 8. I’ve done some tweaking and made it a bit more comfortable round that corner but still not perfect. Downside is that I’m a little slower around the rest of the lap now but I do gain a tenth or two at turn 8 so I guess it evens itself out. Managed to get down to a 1:16.5 in the Mercedes in time trial on controller with no assists.

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12 hours ago, LEWISt17KIMI said:

The reason why Portimao seem so accurate, is probably because the data used in its creation, was taken from the PC2 version of the circuit, which was drone laser scanned.

What about they grab all those PC2 data for F1 2021(2). Dreams. 

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17 hours ago, TRJoey said:

Don't be so negative . The time it takes to make tracks with such a small team as codemasters are . Now with ea on board they have a bit more man power then this is something you should be happy about. You would be complaining if they had them at launch and you wanted Turkey etc etc . 

You're a typical example of a consumer suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Codies can now release F1 games that don't even have the official tracks in it and have stats from the previous season. They barely have to do anything but you will defend them. They'll even increase the price of the game, as they did this year, so you pay extra for the privilege AND you thank them for it. It's scary that you and so many others can't even recognise that.

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21 hours ago, milook said:

There's nothing wrong with my audio setup. I play on console, using headphones and my audio is high quality. Codies made the DRS beep too quiet and they said they fixed it. They didn't. They fixed it for some people but not for others. Cockpit view on xbox one is still very quiet, although a tiny, tiny bit louder than it was on release.

Re tracks, you're exactly the type of apologist that EA love to have onboard. This is the official F1 game and it released without the official F1 tracks. We all paid full price for the game. We didn't get all the tracks. They should not have released it if it wasn't ready for release. It's scummy behaviour but it's generally accepted across the gaming community nowadays due to everyone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

I don't get why you even need the DRS beep. There are like 1 or 2 DRS zones on each circuit, not that hard to memorize where they are and activate is as soon as you cross the DRS line/sign on track. If you depend on hearing it first, reacting after that and then activate it, you loose 0,5-1sec of DRS activation anyway, so maybe just activate DRS assist? No need to blame Codies for that.

For the tracks, it was very well communicated that those tracks will not be there on launch. If you have a problem with that, then why did you not wait until all the tracks are released and bought the game then? I bought it on launch because I don't care about some tracks being there or not, I am far from perfect on the ones existing, so there is still much work to do with what is in the game already, for me at least.

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To my posting about TRL Limitless. I´m not a hater of his channel, but a lot of guys are using his setups. No he is one of the best you tubers I think. They are a lot of others that think they were professional drivers. They are guys with a lot of to many pounds (fitness) with a fanatec wheel in a gaming chair. They play around the clock and talking about the other drivers in the game like he drove like the real driver. Some of this guys drove in the harder ties of covid 19 in the E F1 races with real drivers and now they mean they are kings.

We have a few examples of those you tubers in germany. Sitting in a gaming chair with F1 merchandise stuff, gloves and expensive racing equipment. Playing around the clock. I don´t know how someone could be drive all the series in the game and are in the 4th season meanwhile. 

I think TRL Limitless is one of the best, but he is using a direct wheel like the most you tuber and you can´t use the same settings if you use a normal force feedback wheel or a controller. A lot of people say the kerbs are to slippery. I think the kerbs are right now. If yu look on tv how must a real driver do to manage a fast exit on kerbs than you can see you need a lot of skill to do that. It is not only accelerating look that the steering wheel is in a good position and give maximum speed. If you look on older cars of F1 and how the drivers handle the car you can see it more. 

I think F1 2021 is not even miore a sim arcade game it is even more. With the last update the game goes in thermes of steeering more in a new direction. It is not easy to drive without traction control, abs, steering help, breaking help now with a dual sense controller but a lot of fun. I´m playing in my living room on a tv on the ps5. I have no space for a wheel and must drive with a controller from my tv chair. 

I couldn´t handle a wheel anymore, because of a badly broken wrist in the past. Only without forcefeedback and that is no fun.

Edited by MadEvilBeavis76
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1 hour ago, VaiVeloce said:

I don't get why you even need the DRS beep. There are like 1 or 2 DRS zones on each circuit, not that hard to memorize where they are and activate is as soon as you cross the DRS line/sign on track. If you depend on hearing it first, reacting after that and then activate it, you loose 0,5-1sec of DRS activation anyway, so maybe just activate DRS assist? No need to blame Codies for that.

For the tracks, it was very well communicated that those tracks will not be there on launch. If you have a problem with that, then why did you not wait until all the tracks are released and bought the game then? I bought it on launch because I don't care about some tracks being there or not, I am far from perfect on the ones existing, so there is still much work to do with what is in the game already, for me at least.

Stockholm Syndrome

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