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AI retraining 1.10 patch


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I'll be very disappointed if they have taken the ai mistakes out if this game as I'm so bored and not interested in racing bots who just are perfect every corner, every lap, every session, every season were is the fun in that . Acc has this exact problem as did the last few f1 games it a silly decision if they have done that as it just kills games for me and I will just uninstall this and free up 70 plus GB and stick to Moto GP and ride 4 at least there ai is variable....

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On 9/14/2021 at 5:07 PM, marioho said:

There's basically two sets of behavior for the AI in virtually any game:

  • AI making choices;
  • AI on rails, following a pre-determined path.

The video I linked earlier throw some light in the process but whatever.

In racing games there's a mix of the two going on all the time.

For some stretches the AI will be driving the car for real, following a set of parameters – what they're aiming for and what they can do with throttle, braking and steering to accomplish that. So they get a huge tree of choices with weighed possibilities for everything: defending a position, attempting an overtake, reacting to an accident ahead, getting a good line. In those decision trees there will be bad decisions too and the AI will spontaneously make mistakes. And they will be vulnerable too, they'll spin and crash if you punt them.

For a select few of stretches that decision tree is severely pruned and the AI behaves as if on rails. Ever noticed how you bump into an AI car in this game or other racing sims and they unsettles a bit just to straighten out quickly again and carry on with their line as if nothing happened? Yeah, that's the AI on rails, following a pre-determined set of parameters for their lines, throttle, braking and so on. Hook your session to a telemetry app and maybe you'll spot moments where the AI seems to be inputting a certain amount of steering and throttle, but their line and their speed do not match with said inputs. The AI is pretty much following a pre-determined path.

AI is a seriously demanding task, resource wise. You'll see games sacrificing a lot of visual fidelity just to reserve the processing power needed for the system to run the AI programming for every AI car. To this day, most games still limit the AI to keep focus on one car only – ever found yourself chilling minding your own business just to get the AI to blindly punt you? Yeah, their focus wasn't on you at the time and they did not even know you're there. That's for racing games (or games with cars, like open world games) in general. It's no coincidence that the AI feels robotic and in line whenever the session is set for a rain, as now the pool of resources available shrinks a bit to account for the extra elements the game gets for a rainy visual.

Anyway, AI retraining touches all that. Including the AI behavior on fast corners, I bet. What goes on in there, most likely, is that the devs pre-determined a set of speed, throttle and lines for them to follow in those corners and this set varies with the difficulty level selected by the player. It's unbalanced and in some scenarios the behavior is off by a significant margin – unrealistic speed, unrealistic traction, etc.

AI retraining is that. Going over the decision trees and the hard-wired behavior.

Whenever there's a new circuit introduced or a change to the physics or handling characteristics of the game, the AI will be retrained. It needs to learn how to drive the new circuit, getting the decision trees mapped to it for a realistic behavior. It needs to be revised so that it acts accordingly to how the kerbs unsettles the ride now, to how much and how fast the weight gets shifted around on the car, to how the grip changes when going over from tarmac to astroturf, etc.

With the performance update obviously the AI behavior changed. Pretty soon someone will probably compare the game files pre and post patch to highlight what got changed in this performance, but most likely they were overall downforce levels for all the different components, drag levels, etc. Some work got to be done to adjust the AI decision trees and baked-in parameters to the new characteristics of the cars. However the bulk of the retraining is still to come, as stated by Codemasters.

I know how the AI works in games, thanks, I was more interested if anything has been said by CM in relation to their game. 

 

Edit, quite childish of you to downvote because you didn't like my reply, pathetic. 

Edited by Sonic6L
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I don't think AI mistakes have been taken out the game. I've done 2 50% races on driver career since the 1.10 patch and in both races AI did make mistakes.

The one I remember was Gasly spinning out on the last corner of Zaandvoort and left the track, he came back on but caused Stroll to swerve but he hit the wall causing a Safety Car.

It might be that they happen less often? But do still happen.

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1 hour ago, Ukbordoy said:

I don't think AI mistakes have been taken out the game. I've done 2 50% races on driver career since the 1.10 patch and in both races AI did make mistakes.

The one I remember was Gasly spinning out on the last corner of Zaandvoort and left the track, he came back on but caused Stroll to swerve but he hit the wall causing a Safety Car.

It might be that they happen less often? But do still happen.

Then you are blessed my friend coz this is RARE....Im in the 10th Season of My Team , I have seen maybe one or two "crashes" in 9 1/2 seasons, and by crashes i mean the ai braking late into a corner and going off to come straight back on.

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Tell you what i have noticed the Ai tends to "give up" once you overtake them. ive had countless battles with the Ai trying to take the car in front of me , but once i take them they tend to give up and i end up pulling ahead within a couple of laps easy...plus they dont seem to use ERS , I take them on a straight using ERS and DRS , but when its the other way around the Ai use DRS but not ERS as when i have an ai behind me thats within DRS range i just turn on ERS and can keep them behind me , they should be able to do what i do

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54 minutes ago, Madmaz116 said:

Tell you what i have noticed the Ai tends to "give up" once you overtake them. ive had countless battles with the Ai trying to take the car in front of me , but once i take them they tend to give up and i end up pulling ahead within a couple of laps easy...plus they dont seem to use ERS , I take them on a straight using ERS and DRS , but when its the other way around the Ai use DRS but not ERS as when i have an ai behind me thats within DRS range i just turn on ERS and can keep them behind me , they should be able to do what i do

that´s always happened, since release date

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2 hours ago, Madmaz116 said:

Tell you what i have noticed the Ai tends to "give up" once you overtake them. ive had countless battles with the Ai trying to take the car in front of me , but once i take them they tend to give up and i end up pulling ahead within a couple of laps easy...plus they dont seem to use ERS , I take them on a straight using ERS and DRS , but when its the other way around the Ai use DRS but not ERS as when i have an ai behind me thats within DRS range i just turn on ERS and can keep them behind me , they should be able to do what i do

But it’s not like they don’t use ERS at all though. I’ve watched some onboard replays of the AI and sometimes I can see the ERS bar turn green on their steering wheel.

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They may have slowed Ai down... and that’s clearly evident in myteam..  it’s clear my speed is a lot slower...  But don’t think the rubberbanding coder got the memo...  

Last few laps in some races before 1.10  if you knew if you had close rivals in the standings behind they would gain speed power ups.. made it annoyingly challenging. 

But since the patch I’m slowef the ai are slower.. but I think rubberbanding is still the same... so now on a few races the ai speed is huge.. had a couple off ai cars wipe themselves out by running into me when I’m braking about to take a corner.   Hopefully it will be toned down 

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11 minutes ago, DutchRacer87 said:

But it’s not like they don’t use ERS at all though. I’ve watched some onboard replays of the AI and sometimes I can see the ERS bar turn green on their steering wheel.

If they use ERS? Yes they do.

Do they use ERS as we players do? No. 

However we should not expect that they would use it as we use. In the replays I see AI are using ERS when they want to overtake and in the last lap, that's why they ran out of it in the last moments of the race. But what I found really strange is when you upgrade your engine in a way that you easily recover all ERS in 1-2 braking corners, because you as a player know you can use ERS all laps and recover it pretty fast, however the AI don't understand that and do not really use it during the straights to catch to the car ahead. That's why you can easily get away quickly after overtaking the AI. You continue using it to create a gap, but because they are so far back to overtake, they just don't use it anymore.

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21 hours ago, Madmaz116 said:

Then you are blessed my friend coz this is RARE....Im in the 10th Season of My Team , I have seen maybe one or two "crashes" in 9 1/2 seasons, and by crashes i mean the ai braking late into a corner and going off to come straight back on.

I had a fair few AI mistakes in the earlier builds on the game, some drivers spinning out, drivers crashing into each other and not making the overtake, overshooting the corner and going onn, but since 1.08 they've pretty much gone and they feel like they're all on rails again. 

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