with developers 2021 [ ALL PLATFORMS ] - Desync and General Quality of Life in Multiplayer Discussion Thread

[WegMat]

42 minutes ago, Veasper said:

It's understandable for now, it's late anyway 😅 let's see if there will be an answer anytime. 

For now it may be understandable, yes. 😂 But this discussion goes over days. 😉 I‘m excited. The hope dies last!

[SpeedWine14]

Dear makers!

Allow me to introduce myself. Zoltán Zöldi I am the league leader of MPL RS on PC platform by the name of one of the Hungarian leagues.

There have already been a series of problems with the F1 2021 game.
We run 4 tournaments on Saturday and Sunday starting at 17:00 and 19:00 with more than 100 people.

At these times, it is simply impossible to hold league competitions, because we are constantly experiencing a desyncet and connection problem that is constantly recurring from week to week, from competition to competition.

The mood and morale of the riders are in a very bad condition, in vain they prepare for days and hours for a given race, and the weekend is simply unenjoyable because of their fun and racing!

Out of curiosity, I would like to ask if they want to do something in the October update against making the multiplayer part less buggy?

Even though league mode is included in the game, it is also useless for us, so we have to create servers with an online lobby that are also unusable.

I think 100 people have spent € 60 per person in this tournament for this game for this game, not because of their amazing career and breaking point but because we can play online!

Is it worth organizing a tournament in the future or do we leave it to hell?

So unenjoyable in vain people have a good internet, a good computer is simply suffering all over!

Why is it possible to compete in multiplayer when the servers are so bad, the game is so optimized and there are so many problems with it?

Do Esport competitors also compete with these servers? Do they also have these problems?

Problems:
- if 2 competitors go into each other then it is not the competitor who comes in from behind that gets the penalty but the innocent first who can do nothing about it at all
- transfer from timer to the race after F1 2020 does not include the readers still in the F1 2021 game, which means that the competitors cannot take a break between the timer and the race (the league management cannot warn the competitors accordingly) as it does not appear to have had an early ready imprint)
- The delta time during VSC jumps from a positive green value to a negative one at the end of the VSC (it can bounce back for about 1 second) which causes the competitors to receive a series of pit lane passing penalties. The question is, why stick to the delta if you jump back into a native? )
- After a few laps after the start the side tower which gives the time results gives false data, the competitors jump here and there constantly, there is when the last competitor first end jumps into the tower even though it is at the end of the field.
-if restarting a particular race due to desync, that server will be even worse than the previous one. Continuous desync among people who are in a country and have a green internet sign according to the game. Still, it's there next to their X name!
- In Spectator mod, racing cars don't look like the riders see! This is also a great bug.
- OBS streaming program gives direct x 11 image, the game is direct x 12 and because of this the streams get stuck or corrupt in OBS completely.

and so on...

I would also like to add a couple of video scenes from our competitors:

Hungarian Grand Prix last night:
One competitor's onboard from a replay file:
https://youtu.be/RSbiRndtR9k?t=86

In the same case from Haas's point of view:
https://youtu.be/wp6QAbBA4T4?t=21
Alfa Romeo from Haas onboard is not there!
Broadcast perspective: https://youtu.be/f9XWdeRhog8?t=3204

Another case from today:
https://clips.twitch.tv/KindHotDumplingsPrimeMe-DZ59xV5aFRMueQi8

Alfa Romeo enters the Red Bull desynces car from behind fire and Alfa Romeo gets a 5-second penalty for collision. What could an Alfa Romeo rider do? And even the desynces car pushed him out under SC.

Next case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4VKN51iVIg

From Mclaren's point of view, Aston Martin drove the racer off the track!

Aston Martin onboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt4k3PRTX_0

The said Mclaren is nowhere near Aston Martin!

Last case:
Streaming camera: https://youtu.be/f9XWdeRhog8?t=4681
Which shows that the Haas racer is pushing the Aston Martin racer away and thus overtaking him.

Haas onboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCvIXPOMY54

Behind him was an Aston Martin racer in abundance!

Look forward to their response!

Sincerely, Zoltán Zöldi

[Feuerbanane]

We try to do our first league race for weeks now and every time multiple drivers are desyncd right from the start. Some cars are invisible to others or are A.I even though the real drivers are still there driving in their screen.

[perunaF1]

• Desync issues with multiplayer race
• PPPJ-PMET-KJAT-BPBE
• PC
• Online multiplayer (Social Race)
• [ONLINE] The amount of players in your session? 11 players
• [ONLINE] Were you the host? No
• [PC ONLY] Please post your DXDiag, including the make and model of motherboard.DxDiag.txt
• What troubleshooting have you tried? We restarted the game before qualifying and restarted the game and lobby before race
• Any screenshots or video of the issue? https://clips.twitch.tv/SeductiveComfortablePancakeArgieB8-vTB_b9e4VXQFE-OY  and https://clips.twitch.tv/BigHonorableSquirrelStoneLightning-_e6rUwXNuM3ylPJn
• Haven't had issues with this before, although didn't play much multiplayer then

[Bolero]

Please, just sit the developers down in a room, give them access to plenty of Coffee & popcorn & have them watch the 50% League race linked below. You can ignore the 1st 20 minutes as the Qualifying part was fine!!!

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1164257504

 

Regards Steve...

You can thank me later 😉

[Blackbird]

This game desperately needs new engine in future, in fact, it should have been made years ago already. All these bugs comes here and there as a result of a legacy cursed engine. Otherwise I can't see why it have not been fixed through years of development.

[WegMat]

One further example for your "great work" in multiplayer lobbies:

 

[steviejay69]

Results of AOR testing with games restarted after qualifying (race only, custom grid) did not resolve desync issues, being evident from Formation Lap.

It is really a massive thing for the future of the season if the planned fix does not drop with the October update and Imola.

 

[n0thappy]

21 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

Results of AOR testing with games restarted after qualifying (race only, custom grid) did not resolve desync issues, being evident from Formation Lap.

It is really a massive thing for the future of the season if the planned fix does not drop with the October update and Imola.

 

From what we have discovered, if you do a race only then it is even worse, as during the quali we have encouraged our players to leave the session and rejoin it during q1 (well, we would've encouraged them to leave during q2 and q3 as well but of course this game has layers of bugs upon bugs so leaving the game in q2 resets the tyre wear lolololo. @BarryBL maybe you guys will *test* this next hah) and this was solving the desync for some players, but that would not be the end of the story, as the previously mentioned layers of bugs meant that some of them could not retake the control of the car after rejoining the session. Of course they couldn't, right?

Edited October 4, 2021 by n0thappy

[n0thappy]

Also, I really do think, that once we actually manage to have a lobby that does not desync, we should all start bugging codies about the other issues that occur, like:

-Q2 and Q3 game exits/crashes cause tyre wear to reset to 0%
-drivers see their cars from the spectator cameras during the race start
-drivers cannot take the control of their cars after rejoining
-cars smash into the pit wall after the pit
-cars teleport to the middle of the track while entering pits
-engine revs off throttle sound like a meat grinder
-safety car not leaving the track forever
-safety car freezes then teleports behind drivers causing these in front to disqualify
-delta during VSC suddenly changes from +1 sec to negative and penalizes you
-double setups in quali: while forcing a disconnect for a short enough time while being in pits; you can then reconnect and load two setups at once. ridiculous XD


There's probably more, that's just from the top of my head.

But, imagine how many bugs you guys must've found, if that list above is coming only from a new, frustrated member of the forum 😉😉😉

[steviejay69]

Just now, n0thappy said:

From what we have discovered, if you do a race only then it is even worse, as during the quali. We have encouraged our players to leave the session and rejoin it during q1 (well, we would've encouraged them to leave during q2 and q3 as well but of course this game has layers of bugs upon bugs so leaving the game in q2 resets the tyre wear lolololo. @BarryBL maybe you guys will *test* this next hah) and this was solving the desync for some players, but that would not be the end of the story, as the previously mentioned layers of bugs meant that some of them could not retake the control of the car after rejoining the session. Of course they couldn't, right?

Perhaps we could have done to know that before last night's testing 🙂 We only do short qualifying anyway.

But, the game should work a whole lot better than it does. I'm sure you will agree that for many years now, league runners have 'worked around' the game's deficiencies. 

To list:

• Fixing weather for sessions.
• Separating pad and wheel users.
• Running 'old season' games.
• Running reduced rules to avoid unfair drive thru penalties.
• Spectating qualifying sessions because track limits is broken even on Strict and drivers were abusing them.
• Online Stewards forums having to deal with penalty removal because even the time penalties were not being awarded fairly. A lot of driving incidents occur because of desync issues, so it's fair to say that what you see on your screen, chances are it's not the same for other players.
• Disabling the Safety Car because it was either hopelessly broken or disqualifying drivers.
• Desync so bad that some drivers simply aren't visible to others at all (first instance was in 2011 but was really chronic in 2013)

We got a league mode in 2019 that solved none of the issues and has since been buried / discounted because it was designed or imagined by someone who had no idea how to make something fit for purpose - I'd still argue that no-one at Codemasters has actually tackled league racing (multiplayer) as it is envisioned by the league operators. Instead we get 'features' that do nothing to help desync ('ghosting' and rejoining) and it is given pointless developments such as 'Ranked' mode - which is it's own source of frustration for those foolhardy enough to attempt to (what.....IDK) actually play a game. 😁

We used to work hard to ensure we had users with reliable and stable connections, introduced limits to ping levels - all in the interests of playability and experience and we get constantly "lowballed" by the software offering year on year. There is no progression with the engine, just constant regression, the same old bugs reappearing and (sometimes) quashed.

I think I've got that off my chest now 🙂

[n0thappy]

1 minute ago, steviejay69 said:

Perhaps we could have done to know that before last night's testing 🙂 We only do short qualifying anyway.

But, the game should work a whole lot better than it does. I'm sure you will agree that for many years now, league runners have 'worked around' the game's deficiencies. 

To list:

• Fixing weather for sessions.
• Separating pad and wheel users.
• Running 'old season' games.
• Running reduced rules to avoid unfair drive thru penalties.
• Spectating qualifying sessions because track limits is broken even on Strict and drivers were abusing them.
• Online Stewards forums having to deal with penalty removal because even the time penalties were not being awarded fairly. A lot of driving incidents occur because of desync issues, so it's fair to say that what you see on your screen, chances are it's not the same for other players.
• Disabling the Safety Car because it was either hopelessly broken or disqualifying drivers.
• Desync so bad that some drivers simply aren't visible to others at all (first instance was in 2011 but was really chronic in 2013)

We got a league mode in 2019 that solved none of the issues and has since been buried / discounted because it was designed or imagined by someone who had no idea how to make something fit for purpose - I'd still argue that no-one at Codemasters has actually tackled league racing (multiplayer) as it is envisioned by the league operators. Instead we get 'features' that do nothing to help desync ('ghosting' and rejoining) and it is given pointless developments such as 'Ranked' mode - which is it's own source of frustration for those foolhardy enough to attempt to (what.....IDK) actually play a game. 😁

We used to work hard to ensure we had users with reliable and stable connections, introduced limits to ping levels - all in the interests of playability and experience and we get constantly "lowballed" by the software offering year on year. There is no progression with the engine, just constant regression, the same old bugs reappearing and (sometimes) quashed.

I think I've got that off my chest now 🙂

Stevie, couldn't have said it better.

Fixing issues of the game by custom rulebooks and manual work has become a full time job for me since the very first season of our league. Heck, this season we have even added a point in the rules that disallows to use that invisible helmet they released a few weeks ago. Reason? We are running a league with story mode/roleplay elements added to the livestreams, so we don't sound like morons while "speaking of the best drivers in the whole world" while they mess around helmetless in a rocket on wheels. I think enough is enough and we as a community should really let the company understand that there is much more to this game than Braking Point, which seems to be the train of thought there.

[JeremiaszDX]

p2p system is so bad but changing that system is a wet dream for codemasters... it's a pity that in other games this dream is reality  xD

[n0thappy]

6 minutes ago, JeremiaszDX said:

p2p system is so bad but changing that system is a wet dream for codemasters... it's a pity that in other games this dream is reality  xD

Making a competitive game on anything other than TCP is a joke in itself, but I believe a P2P can be done right, at least to a degree. I would love to see them using a network model from this century, yet, while it is to blame, I am sure it can be improved enough to be playable, then we, as league owners can sort out the rest of the absurd ourselves, as we used to for a loooong time now.

[Pawel567]

The state of multiplayer is very disastrous!!! It is impossible to play this game online! Desynchronization , bugged SC and Starts in F1 2021 is the norm! Please fix this bug as soon as possible!
What are you guys doing at this Codemasters? @Hoo@PJTierney@BarryBLInstead of adding features to the singles first fix the multiplayer and netcode and then get on with the singles!!!!!

[LameElite]

Can I have one more question? Why desync was not visible in beta version? What kind of version are we playing that we have bugs which were not here in beta? 

[PJTierney]

32 minutes ago, Pawel567 said:

@Hoo@PJTierney@BarryBLInstead of adding features to the singles first fix the multiplayer and netcode and then get on with the singles!!!!!

I'm not a developer or direct line to them (my role for F1 is on the marketing side, not development), no point in tagging me on this 🙂 

 

@BarryBL's pinned post is still the recommended action on player-side:

 

Additionally, this thread is tagged "With Developers" so clearly they're aware.

[MisterJohnny420]

11 minutes ago, LameElite said:

Can I have one more question? Why desync was not visible in beta version? What kind of version are we playing that we have bugs which were not here in beta? 

Desyncs have always been there, just not as bad as it is now.

 

But to be honest I feel like some bugs are just not patched properly.

An example would be the bug where your steering wheel gives a strong steer input to the right when the one-shot qualifying starts.

That bug was present in the beta, patched for the release and came back after a couple of patches.

To me it seems like CM is just putting band aids over the bugs and sometimes they get ripped off when a new patch is released.

[n0thappy]

2 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

I'm not a developer or direct line to them (my role for F1 is on the marketing side, not development), no point in tagging me on this 🙂 

 

@BarryBL's pinned post is still the recommended action on player-side:

 

Additionally, this thread is tagged "With Developers" so clearly they're aware.

That's great they're aware. Now we will make sure they take actions. Don't get us all wrong guys, I know your job is currently to be polite against our roasts and it must not be nice to have **** thrown at you all time, but I hope you do understand our side where we just simply had enough and I doubt this perception changes until some public statements or fixes are thrown at us.

If the post is tagged "with developers" then I hope they see our comments too.

[Pawel567]

4 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

I'm not a developer or direct line to them (my role for F1 is on the marketing side, not development), no point in tagging me on this 🙂 

 

@BarryBL's pinned post is still the recommended action on player-side:

 

Additionally, this thread is tagged "With Developers" so clearly they're aware.

Ok , do you have knowledge when the patch will come out and if it will be today?

[MisterJohnny420]

2 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

I'm not a developer or direct line to them (my role for F1 is on the marketing side, not development), no point in tagging me on this 🙂 

 

@BarryBL's pinned post is still the recommended action on player-side:

 

Additionally, this thread is tagged "With Developers" so clearly they're aware.

Since you are in a role for marketing, could you let us know why no public statement from CM was made about this issue?

Only way to find out anything about the state of the game is entering this forum.

All other players have no idea what the hell is going on and massive issues like this, which destroy the entire online experience for every single player, should be addressed publicly in my opinion.

[Blackbird]

22 minutes ago, LameElite said:

Can I have one more question? Why desync was not visible in beta version? What kind of version are we playing that we have bugs which were not here in beta? 

Beta build is not what the game actually is once it's published worldwide. 

[Pawel567]

E-sports said a patch should be out by 11 October at the latest, but whether this will be the case is anyone but CM.

[n0thappy]

13 minutes ago, MisterJohnny420 said:

Since you are in a role for marketing, could you let us know why no public statement from CM was made about this issue?

Only way to find out anything about the state of the game is entering this forum.

All other players have no idea what the hell is going on and massive issues like this, which destroy the entire online experience for every single player, should be addressed publicly in my opinion.

That is a very good point. Taking a look at efootball for example, where they just went out and said, that the game is bad and needs and WILL BE fixed asap. 

I understand that multiplayer has never been a priority, but that company is responsible for the most popular simracing esport tournament. I don't care that it's played on a different build, that does not matter in the slightest for me, because to get there, you have to first practice on a... "normal" (if it deserves to be called normal???) build, because AI will not be enough for you to become an esport level driver.

[Pawel567]

1 minute ago, n0thappy said:

That is a very good point. Taking a look at efootball for example, where they just went out and said, that the game is bad and needs and WILL BE fixed asap. 

I understand that multiplayer has never been a priority, but that company is responsible for the most popular simracing esport tournament. I don't care that it's played on a different build, that does not matter in the slightest for me, because to get there, you have to first practice on a... "normal" (if it deserves to be called normal???) build, because AI will not be enough for you to become an esport level driver.

80% of the World's Gamers play multiplayer and only 20% play singles so they should address what most people play and not what is least intrusive.