Jump to content Jump to content

ABS way too overpowered


Recommended Posts

Fundamentally I think the incentive to drive without assists should be the challenge not because it makes anyone faster. 

When it comes to TT leaderboards I think it should either be possible to filter the current one according to assists used, or even better have a seperate leaderboard just for drivers using no assists.

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, RafaSouza said:

And even if it turns out to be 1 tenth slower, the chance of someone using ABS to lock the wheels, for example, is absurdly smaller, so you can even debate issues such as tire wear management in braking, for example.

Yeah, and their braking distances will be longer. It's always a tradeoff, ABS isn't a one-way benefit toggle.

Quote

I've seen track colleagues who have always been behind the times, and now simply because of the ease that the ABS brings when braking (or the difficulty of braking without abs), they manage to calmly equals the times, which I don't think is fair either.

I really don't see how you're in position to assign their improvements exclusively on ABS. As to say, if they didn't turn ABS, they wouldn't be better by now on their own? This is wild speculation, in my opinion. 

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m lost think I’ve already replied not so sure... I always have and always will use abs... so I should just hard brake off turn bang the apex and floor it again... But I don’t abs or not both in real world and in games I brake off  brake then brake off then turn and bang apex (roundabouts are awesome) and floor it.... This is how i was taught many many years ago.... in actual fact with abs on both in real life and in games I can count on my hand the amount off times I’ve activated abs

Edited by ScaredDuck
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, marioho said:

Yeah, and their braking distances will be longer. It's always a tradeoff, ABS isn't a one-way benefit toggle.

I really don't see how you're in position to assign their improvements exclusively on ABS. As to say, if they didn't turn ABS, they wouldn't be better by now on their own? This is wild speculation, in my opinion. 

Maybe it's for you, who knows the level of the drivers that I quote, it's me. I don't mean to be rude, but I know what I'm saying. Drivers that without ABS, never came close (5, 6, 7 tenths), and now after enabling, do they do the same times, with a variation of 1, tenth more or less? Drivers without abs never made it into the top 50, and now that they've enabled they can? I would be happy with a little vote of faith in what I say 😉

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're not being rude. Just making claims I don't think anyone would be able to back up further than plain and bland speculation. What you're saying implies that these players haven't improved on their own from the time they turned ABS on and all their gains can be chalked up to ABS giving them all benefits with no trade-off.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Like I said in my previous post ABS isn’t activated every time you apply the brakes... it’s only activated once the wheels start to lock... and like I said I use abs but I hardly ever brake to the point off locking my wheels thus I don’t activate it... so that said even with abs on it doesn’t mean you actually use it.... Well that’s in real life maybe it’s different in game but I’m not so sure it is

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, marioho said:

You're not being rude. Just making claims I don't think anyone would be able to back up further than plain and bland speculation. What you're saying implies that these players haven't improved on their own from the time they turned ABS on and all their gains can be chalked up to ABS giving them all benefits with no trade-off.

It may sound mean of me, but that's exactly it. Especially when this improvement occurs in a very short time, especially when they admit that they barely train, that they take a setup on the TT, walk around and turn into fantastic times, Top 100, top 50 with a few hours of track. Of course that every minute on the track is a learning experience and and everyone improves.

In my opinion, this "infestation" of ABS on in time trial, is probably due to drivers who run unaided who are suffering so far to adapt to a more technical/difficult brake (?) or low time penalty for ABS users (?), this is pure guess, because no one unlearn to drive, but compared to 2020 it is notorious how much more mixed, different levels of adjustments in the best 200, 300 times worldwide.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty much everything here is draped in the "wild speculation, pure guess" cape, mate. And to claim that someone that "barely trains, takes a setup on the TT, walk around" and BANG, sets a banger of a Top 100 lap time, that's a plot like of those Hollywood cheap racing movies.

 

When the time comes that top esports players start posting videos breaking their all time "pure" records with ABS assisted new ones, then I'll give more credence to this conjecture that ABS is a lap time booster.

The way this idea is often brought up makes it seem like turning ABS on is like applying a plain downforce bonus to your car with no accompanying drag penalty. As far as I know, @ScaredDuck is right on the money: ABS is an assist that is only active when you exceed your grip budget and is on the verge of locking up your wheels. A good player could be lapping a circuit for hours with the assist enabled but not ever have it activated, simply out of their skill and feeling for grip.

Now, do I believe this is a common occurrence, that every top whatever TT player with ABS on drove a clean lap? Surely not. Conversely though I'm way more disinclined to believe that were you to somehow cut all the "advantage" said players got with ABS out of their times, they would suddenly drop to top two thousand rankings.  

Edited by marioho
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, marioho said:

Pretty much everything here is draped in the "wild speculation, pure guess" cape, mate. And to claim that someone that "barely trains, takes a setup on the TT, walk around" and BANG, sets a banger of a Top 100 lap time, that's a plot like of those Hollywood cheap racing movies.

 

When the time comes that top esports players start posting videos breaking their all time "pure" records with ABS assisted new ones, then I'll give more credence to this conjecture that ABS is a lap time booster.

The way this idea is often brought up makes it seem like turning ABS on is like applying a plain downforce bonus to your car with no accompanying drag penalty. As far as I know, @ScaredDuck is right on the money: ABS is an assist that is only active when you exceed your grip budget and is on the verge of locking up your wheels. A good player could be lapping a circuit for hours with the assist enabled but not ever have it activated, simply out of their skill and feeling for grip.

Now, do I believe this is a common occurrence, that every top whatever TT player with ABS on drove a clean lap? Surely not. Conversely though I'm way more disinclined to believe that were you to somehow cut all the "advantage" said players got with ABS out of their times, they would suddenly drop to top two thousand rankings.  

Driven.... now that’s an awesome true to life F1 movie 😂

 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Pro players will never use aids, simply because they don't need to, because they are extremely better than all of us, practically every top league doesn't use aids, so it doesn't make sense to use something that you couldn't use, or that would have to keep turning it on and off, or that it's going to be 1 tenth slower. And there's probably ego question too. "You're the best, but do you use aids? Hmm"

Mainly assuming that the facts are extremely simple to understand and which are my only statements: 1 - ABS has been proven with the least penalty, practically derisory, 2 - F1 2021 has many more ABS icon drivers then 2020 in the best 100, 200, 300 times in the world (doubt they would have done it without ABS, otherwise they wouldn't use it). 3 - Several drivers I know improved their times after activating the ABS (because it's much easier to drive like that and making fewer mistakes for those who have brake difficulties without abs) and they admit it to me, if you don't believe it, it's up to you. 4 - Someone who has mastered the art of driving unaided, like the bests in the world, with aids maybe will not improve, but assumed there is room for improvement, but someone who is not so capable of running without aids can go faster using ABS for example. Clear as water, only that.

1 hour ago, marioho said:

Pretty much everything here is draped in the "wild speculation, pure guess" cape, mate. And to claim that someone that "barely trains, takes a setup on the TT, walk around" and BANG, sets a banger of a Top 100 lap time, that's a plot like of those Hollywood cheap racing movies.

In order not to activate the "ABS system" during driving, one has to be very good, or drive too far from the limit. And unfortunately many people in the second option feel entitled to mock or think they have the answers about driving at a high level.

I don't know what your level is, but there are a lot of fast people using ABS, that without abs it wouldn't be that fast, I can guarantee that. If this were in the world's top 2000, 5000 situations, it wouldn't be problematic. But when it happens so often in the top 100, 200, it's another situation. Because of your insistence on doubting, you probably shouldn't compete with many fast drivers or even they aren't top in the ranking. That's fine, if that's how my comments are treated, doubting what I say, or assuming I know more than I do, with people I've been competing with for several months or even making fun. So I think I have no reason to continue. See ya. 😉

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m willing to bet real money that fast times set with abs assist didn’t actually activate abs... because abs doesn’t work how you seem to think it does...  All abs does for crying out loud is stop your wheels from locking up at the point they would lock up without abs.... It you braking to the point where abs is activated your braking to late and just like when you lock up you will lose time.. all abs does is give you a get out off jail free card and give you a better chance off staying in track..., Before accusing players achieving fast time trial times off basically cheating. Understand what abs is

 

Whats more as I have a ps5 with these fancy triggers the feedback especially through the brake trigger is amazing..  so I know exactly how much brake pressure to apply 

Edited by ScaredDuck
  • Sad 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Parceiro, you perfectly spelled out why ABS works just as it should. Skillful players avoid using them for the performance hit, unskilled players drive better with them.

Everything else smells like vanity to me. As in, "I should have ranked above that guy as he used ABS".

Like @Ultra3142said, if they were to put on a filter or even have two different leaderboards for players with and players without assists, I'm all for it. And leagues have the option to allow it prohibit ABS. 

Sorry for banging the same drum but the point seemed to fly over your head: when a good, skillful player get to break their records simply by turning ABS assist on, then we could say that the assist is overpowered or not working as it should. It's an assist that should give you a benefit with an attached trade off.

  • Thanks 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, RafaSouza said:

I'll activate something that doesn't help me, genius.

FCOL I didn’t say it didn’t help I just said it helps you stay on track rather than skid off... 🙄. Do you understand the words that are coming out off my fingers😛

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok one last real world example... your driving down a road at speed and something happens causing you to brake hard... all the time your wheels are rotating no abs... as soon as your wheels stop rotating whilst your still moving forward.. abs activates... In a car you know this because your brake pedal goes light then stiff over and over until you come to a stop.  Your pedal does this because your brakes are being applied in a on off on off way.  

Missed most off avengers assemble cause off this thread dammit

Edited by ScaredDuck
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, marioho said:

The takeaways from this thread.

1) Codemasters' corporate car is a Subaru, I'm wondering what colors is @PJTierney's - @BarryBL I'm sure has a red one.

2) @ScaredDuck lovely fingers and veritable street cred with his braking technique is going to be let down when he gets to the end of Avengers and find out that Batman isn't in there.

I think @BarryBL is Matt black with red go faster stripes and Think @PJTierney is beige😛

Will say Barry’s choice off car is a good one for UK roads.... Fast and nimble enough to be fun without being stupid... Found this out the expensive way when I got B7 RS4( one off the very first in country. I know... but memories off being awesome is all I have)... way way to quick for uk roads especially when you live in southeast.   But on track it was a beast

What ya mean no batman🤬

age off ultron now

Edited by ScaredDuck
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

i agree. ABS is to powerful. Totally understandable that some dont have the time to play without ABS. But it should make you slower when you use that assist. It should be the same as with TC.

 

Its frustrating for all non-ABS-users when they have to race against others that use ABS. I cant forbid ABS in all leagues.

Edited by shion13
Link to post
Share on other sites

The reward for using no assists should just be the fun, not the lap time. Traction is the only one that can be argued to need a performance handicap in my opinion and even then not excessively.

Like many have said, for the most part, players aren't actually using the ABS even when its turned on. If they're breaking mid corner and triggering ABS then they're naturally losing time anyway as they're not taking the corner properly and will be much slower than someone with ABS switched off taking the corner properly.

Edited by Wynterdust
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Wynterdust said:

The reward for using no assists should just be the fun, not the lap time. Traction is the only one that can be argued to need a performance handicap in my opinion and even then not excessively.

Like many have said, for the most part, players aren't actually using the ABS even when its turned on. If they're breaking mid corner and triggering ABS then they're naturally losing time anyway as they're not taking the corner properly and will be much slower than someone with ABS switched off taking the corner properly.

So you think that an Assist that doesn't even work like that in real life shouldn't give you punishment? In this Game ABS just gives you perfect Trail Braking all the Time. If you are a good Driver the Time improvement you gain by ABS is marginal or non existent tbh. But thats the big Problem for me, it gives you no real punishment in time gained or braking power but instead you even have less tire wear on the front Tires. Last game when u used ABS you had the same Tire wear and a little less braking power (so it seemed atleast). With Traction controll on your tire wear on the rear tires was worse. On this game you have more benefits from using ABS than anything else. It also wouldnt be that bad if you hadnt problems with the rear locking up without ABS.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, NxtLuff said:

In this Game ABS just gives you perfect Trail Braking all the Time.

It really doesn't. What it does is remove the risk of locking up. The player still has to control their braking to trail brake.

  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...