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ABS way too overpowered


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I had this with my ex misses...  Doesn’t matter how many different ways i explained the same thing... She still never got it.... But at least she had the perfect little heart shaped arse...   I give up.... If you think it’s overpowered then you think it ... I’m sorry for trying to educate you once what an actually ABS system does.... knee I shouldn’t have got involved in this thread🙄🙄🙄🙄

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1 minute ago, ScaredDuck said:

I had this with my ex misses...  Doesn’t matter how many different ways i explained the same thing... She still never got it.... But at least she had the perfect little heart shaped arse...   I give up.... If you think it’s overpowered then you think it ... I’m sorry for trying to educate you once what an actually ABS system does.... knee I shouldn’t have got involved in this thread🙄🙄🙄🙄

Bro i know what ABS does. Its just that as I wrote it doesnt work like that ingame. Its an DRIVING ASSIST IN A GAME. Not the real world ABS and how it works...

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3 minutes ago, NxtLuff said:

Bro i know what ABS does. Its just that as I wrote it doesnt work like that ingame. Its an DRIVING ASSIST IN A GAME. Not the real world ABS and how it works...

I don’t care 🤷‍♂️I’m more ashamed at myself for getting caught up in a debate over a game....

@NxtLuffplease don’t think I’m having a go at you.  Just frustrated 

Edited by ScaredDuck
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6 minutes ago, ScaredDuck said:

I don’t care 🤷‍♂️I’m more ashamed at myself for getting caught up in a debate over a game....

So now you dont care... Just look at this top 60 Leaderboard of Canada and tell me that, that many ABS users are normal?! In the Game ABS doesnt work like it works in the real world. And thats why the problem is that it makes you go the same speed or even faster than you can go without it. Last game you would see close to none in the top 200.

Edited by NxtLuff
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3 minutes ago, NxtLuff said:

So now you dont care... Just look at this top 60 Leaderboard of Canada and tell me that, that many ABS users are normal?! In the Game ABS doesnt work like it works in the real world. And thats why the problem is that it makes you go the same speed or even faster than you can go without it. Last game you would see close to none in the top 200.

 

No cause I don’t care 😛😁

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Say if you brake to 100% of your tyre ability, you need 3s to slow the car to the correct corner entry speed. You're using 100% of your tyres braking ability, determined by its static coefficient of friction.

When you exceed that braking threshold, the grip start to fade a bit, then dips considerably. That's when it meets a cliff and your braking ability severely diminishes as your wheels lock up. By then your braking is based on the sliding coefficient of friction of the tyre, and it’s considerably lower than the static. It looks something like this:

image.png.ce955afc0b7d1377f3d65490be81f31b.png

Sorry for the paint. It did not occur to me to google it before I was far too committed with the color choosing:

image.png.d4de3692298d8a7abc8f00fd0eec0df2.png

The best driver would apply the maximum brake pressure to make use 100% or thereabouts of the tyre stopping force. The blue area. It fades gradually before dipping into a cliff up to fully locked wheels.

The ABS kicks in when the wheels start sliding, the red area. Without ABS, if you do not modulate the brake pressure you’ll fully lock the wheels and only be able to use the significantly lower stopping force of the sliding tyre. Slowing the car down will take considerably longer than 3s. With ABS on, you'll be kept on that slope and though it will be more efficient than trying to brake with fully locked wheels, that's not the same as proper braking. 

Both on real cars and in videogames we usually get to set two parameters: where in the red zone the ABS will engage, and by how much it will relieve the brake pressure. ABS will never be more efficient than a driver in the blue zone though. That’s just not how it works.

Even if you were to precipitate the ABS activation zone so that it kicks in just before the wheel locks, on that slope of the static coefficient of grip, it would still not be as efficient: ABS don’t simply cap the braking pressure to 100% of the tyre ability, it relieves the braking overriding driver’s input, disengage, relieves, disengage and so on. This constant 1-0-1-0-1-0 just isn’t as efficient as manually keeping it at the blue zone. Longer than 3s of blue zone braking. 

What @ScaredDuck is saying isn’t any reality bending mumbo jumbo. A good driver can drive with the ABS on, but never have it engage on a lap just by skillfully keeping the braking at the blue zone.

1 hour ago, NxtLuff said:

Bro its not ABS. In the Game it is an driving Asisst not an Drivers Aid System. It doesnt work like your saying it does, its not like its activates or deactivates. Its active all the time especially because you wouldnt notice it. When you break its active all the time and as @RLLLsaid it always acts especially on the rear. Also because @Ultra3142said it when you are a good driver TC slows you down especially because it reduces the power you have even when there would be no noticable traction loss without it active. I dont get whats so hard to understand that in the Game ABS is a driving assist the same as TC and so on it should funtion like one and slow you down, not make you the same pace or even faster than you are without.

There is an insane difference in the Line and driving style you can take on with ABS on and ABS off. You simply can be a worse driver with the worse line and still be faster because ABS is broken.

What you’re describing is the braking assist, not ABS. As far as I know and as said by Codies themselves, ABS in the game works just as the real thing and just as any reasonable sim racing game out there: it engages when the grip dips beyond the static coefficient slope. Unless you've got a source to back it up, I'm going with the official info and my own experience with the game.

What changes from game to game are those two parameters I mentioned.

Edit: to be honest, haha they could make ABS blow out your engines in this game for how much I care! It's just the "no, it's wrong! You see, I know this guy..." faulty reasoning that sets me off. That and the hyperbolic "you always turn with perfect braking". That just ain't helpful at all, that's not helpful feedback. 

Edited by marioho
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27 minutes ago, marioho said:

Say if you brake to 100% of your tyre ability, you need 3s to slow the car to the correct corner entry speed. You're using 100% of your tyres braking ability, determined by its static coefficient of friction.

When you exceed that braking threshold, the grip start to fade a bit until your wheels lock up. That's when it meets a cliff and your braking ability severely dips, as it's using the sliding coefficient of friction of the tyre and it’s considerably lower than the static. It looks something like this:

image.png.ce955afc0b7d1377f3d65490be81f31b.png

Sorry for the paint. It did not occur to me to google it before I was far too committed with the color choosing:

image.png.d4de3692298d8a7abc8f00fd0eec0df2.png

The best driver would apply the maximum brake pressure to make use 100% or thereabouts of the tyre stopping force. The blue area. It fades gradually before dipping into a cliff up to fully locked wheels.

The ABS kicks in when the wheels start sliding, the red area. Without ABS, if you do not modulate the brake pressure you’ll fully lock the wheels and only be able to use the significantly lower stopping force of the sliding tyre.

Both on real cars and in videogames we usually get to set two parameters: where in the red zone the ABS will engage, and by how much it will relieve the brake pressure. ABS will never be more efficient than a driver in the blue zone though. That’s just not how it works.

Even if you were to precipitate the ABS activation zone so that it kicks in just before the wheel locks, on that slope of the static coefficient of grip, it would still not be as efficient: ABS don’t simply cap the braking pressure to 100% of the tyre ability, it relieves the braking overriding driver’s input, disengage, relieves, disengage and so on. This constant 1-0-1-0-1-0 just isn’t as efficient as manually keeping it at the blue zone.

What @ScaredDuck is saying isn’t any reality bending mumbo jumbo. A good driver can drive with the ABS on, but never have it engage on a lap just by skillfully keeping the braking at the blue zone.

What you’re describing is the braking assist, not ABS. As far as I know and as said by Codies themselves, ABS in the game works just as the real thing and just as any reasonable sim racing game out there: it engages when the grip dips beyond the static coefficient slope. Unless you've got a source to back it up, I'm going with the official info and my own experience with the game.

What changes from game to game are those two parameters I mentioned.

Love you mario 😂

@marioho never seen that video before... Nice to see EVERYTHING I have said about braking is in the video... Never knew my preferred braking technique is called cadence Braking and it probably explains as it is my goto braking style. Why I don’t have many issues when racing in the wet...   And possibly why I find the ai easier in the wet when so many say it’s harder... 

Edited by ScaredDuck
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@ScaredDuck your experience is of no value to this discussion as it evidently doesn't fit the narrative that ABS gives you perfect braking and enables to trail brake by fully press both triggers. Only "I get instantly faster with ABS on" posts, plz.

By the same criteria, my reporting that with ABS I would frequently understeer out of orbit when trail braking was dismissed so I'm petitioning for yours to be too.

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1 hour ago, marioho said:

Edit: to be honest, haha they could make ABS blow out your engines in this game for how much I care! It's just the "no, it's wrong! You see, I know this guy..." faulty reasoning that sets me off. That and the hyperbolic "you always turn with perfect braking". That just ain't helpful at all, that's not helpful feedback

Like I said in a earlier post mate.

Thanks to social media we live in a age where someone’s opinion carries as much weight as a fact...,, NO IT DOES NOT

Edited by ScaredDuck
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"A picture is worth a thousand words"

seven of the top 9 have abs on in France

I agree, I think the assists in general are very strong. it is possible to take good laps and be less penalized for mistakes than running without assistance. Assistance should be something to help a person adapt to the game and not a permanent crutch, which they keep using, because they manage to be very consistent even with them. the only thing i wanted was my money back, i paid dearly, for a broken game, where the force feedback from the steering wheel is ridiculous. There's no vibration, nothing to let you know you're at the limit of traction, just roll. and with OP assists.

 

Screenshot_20210929-180404_WhatsApp.jpg

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I am curious whether the moderator will take care of this, since he drives with ABS himself.

Time is the biggest excuse ABS drivers use.
Do you drive at least once a week? Well that's enough time!

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What does being a forum moderator have to do with game development? And what does an "excuse" has to do with how we prefer to play our video games?

Every time a player sets a time with ABS on a kerb jumps out of the track and makes a "serious" player spin?

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9 hours ago, marioho said:

What does being a forum moderator have to do with game development? And what does an "excuse" has to do with how we prefer to play our video games?

Every time a player sets a time with ABS on a kerb jumps out of the track and makes a "serious" player spin?

This thread just won’t die... like. Zombie games... just when you think finally people have seen sense and moved on... another appears, then another then  soon followed by a bunch more... Atleast if you state a fact to a zombie it only reply is a groaning zombie noise... instead off telling you their opinion think it’s as right as a fact.

Esp with older players you will notice most will use abs... not because we are old and need help... but because once it was impossible to play a game without it.. And having had it on for years off gaming it’s iust habit and beside as we are older and wiser we really don’t give a **** anymore 

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On 9/30/2021 at 12:19 AM, BRPSaga said:

"A picture is worth a thousand words"

seven of the top 9 have abs on in France

I agree, I think the assists in general are very strong. it is possible to take good laps and be less penalized for mistakes than running without assistance. Assistance should be something to help a person adapt to the game and not a permanent crutch, which they keep using, because they manage to be very consistent even with them. the only thing i wanted was my money back, i paid dearly, for a broken game, where the force feedback from the steering wheel is ridiculous. There's no vibration, nothing to let you know you're at the limit of traction, just roll. and with OP assists.

 

Screenshot_20210929-180404_WhatsApp.jpg

Whoah, it is 4sek faster

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/18/2021 at 7:30 PM, Schneehase said:

At least, if you do 90% of your manual breaking right, you should be on par or slightly ahead of the brake assist users. Thats hard enough to manage in longer sessions.

Sure, for casuals or controller users there has got to be some kind of assistance to get them around the course, but it should be noticeably slower than breaking manually. As for the recorded trial times, times achieved without assists should have their own, seperate listing, that would be rewarding enough.

Bro, no ABS is A LOT easier on a controller than on a wheel. the controller vibrates when youre about to lock up. the wheel doesnt. you just lock up. 

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21 hours ago, Wollcott396 said:

Bro, no ABS is A LOT easier on a controller than on a wheel. the controller vibrates when youre about to lock up. the wheel doesnt. you just lock up. 

I'm on a controller (logitech chillsteam) which has no vibrations whatsoever and yet I drive without abs assist. Should I get a credit for that or not? :)

Edited by Blackbird
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2 hours ago, Badmayhem said:

What do the 3 icons mean.

I thought the far right one was racing line.

Again no info in game!

Traction Control, Auto gears, ABS. I'd also add racing line as shown assist, since a lot of people use it to go fast, you know :)

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1 hour ago, Blackbird said:

Traction Control, Auto gears, ABS. I'd also add racing line as shown assist, since a lot of people use it to go fast, you know :)

Thanks. I use racing (2d) line cause its hard to see the markers at 65 years young😁 and its really hard to see the black boxes with black fencing and trees behind them. I even have problems with some of the sun angles and with no way to clear rain on the xbox I just need some help.

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