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From the video:

Braking assist High:+2.14
Braking assist Medium:+1.2
Braking assist Low: +0.5
ABS: +0.1 (-0.1)
TC FULL: +1.7
TC MEDIUM: +0.7
Gearbox: +0.7

He did it by doing two laps with each assist on in Mexico. The differences are to his base lap with no assists.

Honestly, I'm ok with that. ABS and TC are real assists and the way they work are (1) sensing when the wheels are about to exceed their grip, (2) cutting or capping the respective input when they're about to do so. They're usually on tuned on the "conservative" side, so there's still a margin of grip left when they kick in. A game can balance things out to reward players that go the extra mile of driving with no assists on by making those systems kick in even earlier, so that "assisted" players are always leaving a considerable amount of performance on the table.

This is Jarno Opmeer playing on high end equipment. While the average player would struggle to get two laps on the same 0.2 ballpark consistently, he's on the opposite pole. If even he was losing time due to the nature of the assists (kicking in early, before the limit of grip), I'm not fretting about John Doe playing with assists and having a good time.

Should also be taken in consideration that the test was done on Time Trial - perfect tyres running on perfect temperature. The assists most likely would kick in even more often if it was any other mode. I'd wager ABS would set him back more were he playing online.

I was still expecting ABS to slow him down 2-3 tenths though, even with perfect tyres.

 

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23 minutes ago, marioho said:

From the video:


Braking assist High:+2.14
Braking assist Medium:+1.2
Braking assist Low: +0.5
ABS: +0.1 (-0.1)
TC FULL: +1.7
TC MEDIUM: +0.7
Gearbox: +0.7

He did it by doing two laps with each assist on in Mexico. The differences are to his base lap with no assists.

Honestly, I'm ok with that. ABS and TC are real assists and the way they work are (1) sensing when the wheels are about to exceed their grip, (2) cutting or capping the respective input when they're about to do so. They're usually on tuned on the "conservative" side, so there's still a margin of grip left when they kick in. A game can balance things out to reward players that go the extra mile of driving with no assists on by making those systems kick in even earlier, so that "assisted" players are always leaving a considerable amount of performance on the table.

This is Jarno Opmeer playing on high end equipment. While the average player would struggle to get two laps on the same 0.2 ballpark consistently, he's on the opposite pole. If even he was losing time due to the nature of the assists (kicking in early, before the limit of grip), I'm not fretting about John Doe playing with assists and having a good time.

Should also be taken in consideration that the test was done on Time Trial - perfect tyres running on perfect temperature. The assists most likely would kick in even more often if it was any other mode. I'd wager ABS would set him back more were he playing online.

I was still expecting ABS to slow him down 2-3 tenths though, even with perfect tyres.

 

His base lap is a World Record! Abs helps more with turning while braking right? His habits might have him using this in a straight line, just an observation as he shifted while using Automatic.

Again thanks for the chart!

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44 minutes ago, marioho said:

This is Jarno Opmeer playing on high end equipment. While the average player would struggle to get two laps on the same 0.2 ballpark consistently, he's on the opposite pole. If even he was losing time due to the nature of the assists (kicking in early, before the limit of grip), I'm not fretting about John Doe playing with assists and having a good time.

 

Indeed, there seems to be an expectation among regular players that they should be able to turn off something like ABS and immediately go faster and if not then 'assists are overpowered', when in reality it takes mastering (or at least hitting a serviceable level) of the technique to get that advantage.

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17 minutes ago, Ryne said:

Time to turn off medium TC then. Have lots of spinouts though, for years lol

I never got the hang of it

Im 65 and I 1st went to med TC 2 weeks after game came out then 2 weeks later completely off. If I can do it anybody can!

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2 hours ago, KNT2011 said:

Indeed, there seems to be an expectation among regular players that they should be able to turn off something like ABS and immediately go faster and if not then 'assists are overpowered', when in reality it takes mastering (or at least hitting a serviceable level) of the technique to get that advantage.

Yup, there's a technique to being fast with assists, just there's a technique to being fast without them 🙂 

Turning ABS on doesn't mean you can slam the pedal down 100% throughout the entire corner, but it does mean you have a bit of a safety net.

If you have ABS on but drive as if you have ABS off, then you get the benefits of both and Jarno's obviously good enough to demonstrate that 🙂 

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1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

Yup, there's a technique to being fast with assists, just there's a technique to being fast without them 🙂 

Turning ABS on doesn't mean you can slam the pedal down 100% throughout the entire corner, but it does mean you have a bit of a safety net.

If you have ABS on but drive as if you have ABS off, then you get the benefits of both and Jarno's obviously good enough to demonstrate that 🙂 

This is 100% correct.

With regards to ABS specifically, if you brake as though you are not using the assist, trying not to activate ABS at all. You will find you will lose barely any time with it. This isnt because the assist is "overpowered", its because you, as a driver, are braking correctly. Braking distences are reletively the same, they only really increase if you are braking so hard that ABS is activating. When all you should be doing with ABS, is using it as a safty net.

The same thing happens with traction control also, the harder you are on the throttle, the more it will activate, the more it will slow you down. But if you use the throttle progressivly, just like you would need to without the assist turned on. Then it will barely have an effect.

This was something that could be seen far easier in some something like Forza, due to the ABS/TCS lights on the HUD cluster. Which allows you to see when the assists are kicking in. This in turn allows you to improve your driving buy learning not to activate those lights. I tested it back in Forza 6, as I got fed up of certain people chastising new players for using assists, and them being told they would never be able to drive fast with TCS and ABS turned on. So I went on got into the top 26 on the nordschleife using all the assists.
 


Historically, its an STM assist that will do the most damage to your lap times; as that one is prone to activation the moment it detects a slide. And in certain circumstances, you need that little bit of slide to go fast in a racing game. Especially in something like Dirt Rally.

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The most you feel abs and tc missing in rain,i never trained so much before a rain race since i am driving without assists. Sometimes i wanna kickout the wheelsetup and stop playing this game because it is so tough driving in the rain...but i wanna make it somehow so i keep learning and finding the sweetspot for wet conditions...

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1 hour ago, svensenk86 said:

The most you feel abs and tc missing in rain,i never trained so much before a rain race since i am driving without assists. Sometimes i wanna kickout the wheelsetup and stop playing this game because it is so tough driving in the rain...but i wanna make it somehow so i keep learning and finding the sweetspot for wet conditions...

The best place to start is your driving, if you are struggling specifically in the wet. It requires a lot of finesse to drive fast in the rain. I spend a lot of my time practicing in the wet so it becomes less of an issue when I am faced with a wet race. I dont even bother with a wet specific setup right now as I learn the game, I just use the default tuning. Something I do in the majority of racing titles while learning and practicing. If you can drive fast in a less than optimal setup, you will feel more benifit when you do put on a good tuning for the car you are driving.

Setups can help you gain additional control in any condition, but it wont help as much as it can, if your driving in certain condistions isnt up to the task.

Learning in the vast mojority of racing games should go, from most important to least important.

Driving essentials (throttle, brake and steering control.).
Race craft (learnt by having races with AI and/or friends online)
Setups

That is the order things ideally need to go. As most of your gains will always be in how you can actually drive in the first place. If your throttle control is lacking, driving in the rain will be a nightmare. If your braking is lacking, carrying the correct momentum around the corner will suffer. And if your steering is lacking, you run the risk of over steering and over correcting when a mistake is made with the throttle and/or brakes.

The best way to learn better with your driving essentials, is to slow down. The slower you drive, the more thinking time you give yourself. Aim to be consistent instead of fast, and speed will come to you over time as you learn the cars, tracks ans condidtions better.

If you dont practice your racecraft, then it becomes harder to remain aware of your opponants on track. Makes it harder for you to deviate of the optimal driving line, and makes it harder for you to adapt to changing situations. So it becomes important to practice in grand prix mode specifically for learning to race. And online (if you can stand it) to learn how real people can drive (both good and bad).

Setups should always be the last thing to worry about, especially in a game like F1 2021 where the defaults are not too bad. They are just not optimal.

@PJTierney has a video on wet driving from F1 2020, which is still mostly applicable to F1 2021. And is worth a watch -
 

There are also other channels with advice on wet driving -
 

 

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All you say is right buddy,that is what i mean,i put much more time in pratice than before with assists (med tc & abs)

As i play since 1995 racing games i know how to adjust my style,but new wheel and pedals,turned off assists really threw me back,but hey no worries i like the challenge. And guess what,my goal especially in the wet is to bring home the car without using flashbacks,when the speed is good as well even better. But tough situations like dry qualy and race until the end when it starts to rain are tough to handle for me,but the AI struggles there as well,that is good.

I was before putting back abs,but no, feels better at the end of the race when you made it without it 😎

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1 minute ago, svensenk86 said:

All you say is right buddy,that is what i mean,i put much more time in pratice than before with assists (med tc & abs)

As i play since 1995 racing games i know how to adjust my style,but new wheel and pedals,turned off assists really threw me back,but hey no worries i like the challenge. And guess what,my goal especially in the wet is to bring home the car without using flashbacks,when the speed is good as well even better. But tough situations like dry qualy and race until the end when it starts to rain are tough to handle for me,but the AI struggles there as well,that is good.

I was before putting back abs,but no, feels better at the end of the race when you made it without it 😎

Yeh, getting used to a wheel and pedals is a fun one. I had the advantage of growing up with multiple large arcades with racing games with wheels set up, as well as getting a wheel for home use many years ago. My first wheel was a microsoft sidewinder force feedback wheel in 2000, was a lot of fun. Now I use a T300, and soon, hopefully, a Fanatec DD wheel (or the upcoming Thrustmaster DD wheel, which ever fits my price range more 😅)
Ive been playing racing games for as long as I can remember, which is from about 4 years old on an old Amstrad CPC 464 with Chase HQ. Ive been hooked on racing games since then, lol.

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1 hour ago, Ialyrn said:

Yeh, getting used to a wheel and pedals is a fun one. I had the advantage of growing up with multiple large arcades with racing games with wheels set up, as well as getting a wheel for home use many years ago. My first wheel was a microsoft sidewinder force feedback wheel in 2000, was a lot of fun. Now I use a T300, and soon, hopefully, a Fanatec DD wheel (or the upcoming Thrustmaster DD wheel, which ever fits my price range more 😅)
Ive been playing racing games for as long as I can remember, which is from about 4 years old on an old Amstrad CPC 464 with Chase HQ. Ive been hooked on racing games since then, lol.

Just getting used to a new one 😉 soon then hopefully the TM SF1000 will be delivered and the new pedals 🤗 just never really switched off the ABS and the TC completely before.

My first one actually i used at Grand Prix 3,a logitec wheel,will never forget it 😄 

 

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10 hours ago, Badmayhem said:

His base lap is a World Record! Abs helps more with turning while braking right? His habits might have him using this in a straight line, just an observation as he shifted while using Automatic.

Yep, but not only with that. With braking, essentially you can demand more than what your tyre's grip can account for either by (1) requiring too much braking force and/or (2) asking the front to simultaneously brake and turn. You can do it all concurrently and have great performance as long as you don't exceed your grip budget. 

So ABS can and will kick in when braking in a straight line if your brake bias isn't in conformity with your load distribution. Say one end of the car is really light and that particular axle can only deal with 80% braking power. If you request more, the ABS will kick in and cut that excessive input even if you're on a straight.

@Ialyrn I'm not thoroughly in love with Gran Turismo Sport's HUD, but the way they indicate the assists activation is great:

80503072_GTS-ABSTC.thumb.png.1bd888b7a7abd1a8a70bfae86964c2da.png

You've got your throttle and brake bars. Whenever ABS or TC kicks in, the game will show by how much it is capping your input (the red and the white areas) along with the respective assist light turning on.

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3 hours ago, marioho said:

Yep, but not only with that. With braking, essentially you can demand more than what your tyre's grip can account for either by (1) requiring too much braking force and/or (2) asking the front to simultaneously brake and turn. You can do it all concurrently and have great performance as long as you don't exceed your grip budget. 

So ABS can and will kick in when braking in a straight line if your brake bias isn't in conformity with your load distribution. Say one end of the car is really light and that particular axle can only deal with 80% braking power. If you request more, the ABS will kick in and cut that excessive input even if you're on a straight.

@Ialyrn I'm not thoroughly in love with Gran Turismo Sport's HUD, but the way they indicate the assists activation is great:

80503072_GTS-ABSTC.thumb.png.1bd888b7a7abd1a8a70bfae86964c2da.png

You've got your throttle and brake bars. Whenever ABS or TC kicks in, the game will show by how much it is capping your input (the red and the white areas) along with the respective assist light turning on.

Do hope you're enjoying the races at Dragon Trail this week on GT mate, those boys sure know how to make a track from scratch. What a blast that is to drive. 

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On 9/20/2021 at 6:51 AM, Ryne said:

Time to turn off medium TC then. Have lots of spinouts though, for years lol

I never got the hang of it

Same I play on medium tc . For past few seasons . But got no chance with TC off . I'd be spinning every corner . And along the straight . I'm happy with medium tc . I can't go back to full TC . Now . . Not in less it's raining . I have trouble in the rain on this game . But it was how I learned to drive with med TC . A few year back . Bit I hate it when I have to turn tc to full in wet sessions . The car just doesn't feel the same . It would be great if Microsoft. Built a controller . Where you can stiffen the triggers for more resistant 

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35 minutes ago, PaulLynch said:

Same I play on medium tc . For past few seasons . But got no chance with TC off . I'd be spinning every corner . And along the straight . I'm happy with medium tc . I can't go back to full TC . Now . . Not in less it's raining . I have trouble in the rain on this game . But it was how I learned to drive with med TC . A few year back . Bit I hate it when I have to turn tc to full in wet sessions . The car just doesn't feel the same . It would be great if Microsoft. Built a controller . Where you can stiffen the triggers for more resistant 

Took some getting used to but ps5 triggers are really really good.... braking trigger especially when you set them to strong the feedback is exceptional 

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