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AI Completely Ignores Player


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20 minutes ago, Naxlr said:

Why are you comparing real life driver's to racing a code in a game ?? It never going to be like that.... Plus you don't know what the ai did as he never looked back to see were it was or how far ahead he was did he ... He was going round the outside and just took his normal line when there was a car near his inside you simply don't do that you go the long way round as he should of done . If he had adapted as the human player and went right and wide entry it would never have touched.  

I shouldn’t have spin my camera back to see the AI when I have mirrors. I can see the AI clearly drive straight into me with zero regard for where I am in the mirror. That’s dumb. I shouldn’t have to move right to react to a car that is more that 50% behind me, that’s also dumb. A real human driver, a good human real player wouldn’t do that. But the AI just continues the racing line even if it mean driving through the player. If we are talking about making the AI as challenging and as life like as possible, Codemasters failed miserably.

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7 minutes ago, Moebius21 said:

A real human driver, a good human real player wouldn’t do that.

 

This was undoubtedly a bad decision by the AI Mazepin, hopefully one among many he could have made. Unless that behavior gets repeated consistently, that's pretty what I want to see from an AI car that the game wants us to believe that is substantially more prone to dumb decisions than others.

Edited by marioho
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Could the ai be better ? Of course but as @marioho says in a multiplayer race you would expect and if you were racing against fair and high level players to do similar to what I suggested and what would happen irl . Wide entry to avoid any possible contact and get a good exit and battle out of the corner.. Racing a code in a computer game is years away from been similar to real life but as I said it better than anything else . If you want ai that as you stated instaly jumps off line go play 15 and see how far it has come on . Plus you could argue the op just followed his set line also so he as much at fault as the ai . But the difference is he has logic and can avoid it  but  he did not he admits he saw the hass in mirror and made no effort to avoid it ..... 

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2 minutes ago, Naxlr said:

Could the ai be better ? Of course but as @marioho says in a multiplayer race you would expect and if you were racing against fair and high level players to do similar to what I suggested and what would happen irl . Wide entry to avoid any possible contact and get a good exit and battle out of the corner.. Racing a code in a computer game is years away from been similar to real life but as I said it better than anything else . If you want ai that as you stated instaly jumps off line go play 15 and see how far it has come on . Plus you could argue the op just followed his set line also so he as much at fault as the ai . But the difference is he has logic and can avoid it  but  he did not he admits he saw the hass in mirror and made no effort to avoid it ..... 

I shouldn’t have to avoid a collision from a car that is more 50%, heck more that 75% behind me. It simply doesn’t make sense. I understand it’s code, but there are plenty of games out there where the AI recognizes players location. I held my line, but I was on that line ahead of and before the AI. The AI moved right, completely ignoring my existence, and literally pushed into my car. I would be okay if we had a little wheel to wheel contact and then the AI reacted and didn’t push. But no, the AI contacted my car, then continued to push right into my car. I could’ve moved wide and the AI would’ve clearly pushed deeper into me. The AI needs to be fixed.

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The AI could be easily better even now, some things are not hard just a question of the approach but thats nothing i wanna discuss haha. The way you suggest a driver "should" behave is the way Alonso got overtaken by Stroll in Spain this year, i get where you are coming from but id rather squeeze the car on the inside, force him to brake earlier than me and then ill have still enough space to make the corner and will get a better exit anyway, but thats up to the driver and as long as space is left its all legal. I just dont get why you see any fault at the driver in front, the only thing that a car in front has to do is leave space, there was sufficient space, no squeezing at all, so you cant blame the player in this! He shouldnt have to avoid the AI, thats **** AI, BUT as Mario said if its rare i can accept it being Mazepin lol

And i do think the AI is generally better but they do some stupid stuff this year and seem to forget that you are there more often than before, which doesnt mean it is all the time or even close, its rare but when it happens that the AI crashes into you although you gave them space is annoying

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Funny reading as mostly an online player as any self respecting ranked player would have punted you off over the fence and into the next town for having the audacity to think you could overtake without incident. 

Seriously though, it's a ****** incident but it's hardly an indictment of terrible AI. the game is regarded as having some of the highest level in racing games but of course you're racing against code, it's going to seem like it's doing dumb things from time to time. 

It's the right driver to do something wrong though, and in racing you have to be able to accept that **** happens, AI or not, and your race is over in a flash. 

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Just going over old ground now . I would of just gone over to the right just to avoid any possibility of that situation happening . And I have never experienced anything like this in my experience on this game so the ai in the dry to me are fine. aggressive yes , perfect definitely not but nothing better available 

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1 minute ago, Naxlr said:

Just going over old ground now . I would of just gone over to the right just to avoid any possibility of that situation happening . And I have never experienced anything like this in my experience on this game so the ai in the dry to me are fine. aggressive yes , perfect definitely not but nothing better available 

As i said its rare (luckily) but it happens, as KNT2011 said, you have to be able to accept that haha but i guess thats the difference between you and me, i dont "run away" from a confrontation and expect the AI to leave space too (mostly because the did last games too) but its a perfectly fine way to give them more space than necessary, just not my kinda way😄

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Thai thread would be way more productive if we could do away with the superlative and generalizing comments - as in the very first page we got video demonstrating great awareness and behavior of the AI.

Sharing clips or at least informing the AI level the session was in is rather basic when discussing AI programming.

Just venting is ok too. Just gets tiring and pointless really fast.

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Run away from a confrontation ??? You talking like it a fight . Racing properly and fair and leaving enough space to avoid silly avoidable crashes like this is sensible not running away from nothing. But difference between me and you is I race and drive properly and don't come on forum spitting my dummy out that the ai crashed in to me and it needs fixing because I drove like a clown 

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So my issue is it isn’t rare and it isn’t always Mazepin level AI. I have had Hamilton and Bottas AI do the same thing. I made a little drawing (forgive the quality of the lines I did it on my IPhone). The left is what the AI does almost consistently for me, the right is what I would say is acceptable. The blue is my line, red is AI.

D698B1AC-FA43-41FF-BEFC-D9D688F2E5F6.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Naxlr said:

Run away from a confrontation ??? You talking like it a fight . Racing properly and fair and leaving enough space to avoid silly avoidable crashes like this is sensible not running away from nothing. But difference between me and you is I race and drive properly and don't come on forum spitting my dummy out that the ai crashed in to me and it needs fixing because I drove like a clown 

I’m not sure where I was driving like a clown. Yeah, I was off the racing line, I made an overtake in gap well off the line. But, the AI did something completely unpredictable.

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1 minute ago, Naxlr said:

Run away from a confrontation ??? You talking like it a fight . Racing properly and fair and leaving enough space to avoid silly avoidable crashes like this is sensible not running away from nothing. But difference between me and you is I race and drive properly and don't come on forum spitting my dummy out that the ai crashed in to me and it needs fixing because I drove like a clown 

Dude chillout.. First i wasnt the one that posted it and second you are again getting it wrong, the driver in front NEVER has to avoid something as long as space is there.. I was referring with "run away" (in qoutation marks) to avoiding anything that could possibly happen by a missjudgement of the AI or whatever, it wasnt meant judgemental so relax, we are not on twitter here..

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You seen the ai in your mirror and you were not fully ahead so sensible thing would of been to just give slightly more room even if it cost you the corner you could of got it back but doing what you did sticking to your set line cost you a lot more than it would of just loosing a few tenths running slightly wider . But probably you just flashbacked anyway ...

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When racing against logic thinking real life people yes I agree but as I said it years away from Been that so you have to accept that and work with it so be slightly more giving because it a code . Yes it could be better but it what we got and like I said it best ai we got so just treat it with caution accept it will do dumb stuff as all ai do but you do that and it great to race against. Like I said compare it to pc2 acc etc you will see it miles ahead

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22 minutes ago, Moebius21 said:

So my issue is it isn’t rare and it isn’t always Mazepin level AI. I have had Hamilton and Bottas AI do the same thing. I made a little drawing (forgive the quality of the lines I did it on my IPhone). The left is what the AI does almost consistently for me, the right is what I would say is acceptable. The blue is my line, red is AI.

D698B1AC-FA43-41FF-BEFC-D9D688F2E5F6.jpeg

That's some forensics going on! You FBI? Haha just kidding!

Unfortunately it'd be more helpful if we could go down incident by incident. This scenario, of having the AI punting me off, is not at all what I've been finding in this game so that calls for some closer examination.

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The thing is that the AI was capable of doing it before and im not saying that they messed up the AI this year but the "technology" is already there its not a problem.. last year was better in terms of not running into the player.. Its not a question of how many years go on, its already in the game and been in last years game.. I think those things are very rare and possibly on lower AI, this is seen on here fairly often that players criticise the lower AI of doing more stupid stuff.. So probably very rare on higher AI and maybe even halfway frequent on lower AI?

Just tested it.. on 102 AI they dont follow the racing line but stay on the inside - leave you space, even when fully alongside.. So i think its a lower AI thing

Twitter is just a salty, childish, insulting mess lol

Edited by Meza994
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1 minute ago, Meza994 said:

The thing is that the AI was capable of doing it before and im not saying that they messed up the AI this year but the "technology" is already there its not a problem.. last year was better in terms of not running into the player.. Its not a question of how many years go on, its already in the game and been in last years game.. I think those things are very rare and possibly on lower AI, this is seen on here fairly often that players criticise the lower AI of doing more stupid stuff..

Just tested it.. on 102 AI they dont follow the racing line but stay on the inside - leave you space, even when fully alongside.. So i think its a lower AI thing

Twitter is just a salty, childish, insulting mess lol

Yeah, my difficulty was on 61 I think. 

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Just now, Moebius21 said:

Yeah, my difficulty was on 61 I think. 

Yeah just what i thought, its unfortunate those things happen more on e.g. your difficulty but it seems to be that way, with time you will get better and then the problems with the AI will become even less and till then you can give them more space when you know by now that they are happy to make mistakes😉

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@Moebius21 that helps a lot, knowing the AI level. As you can see from the whole debate, the experience varies by quite the margin! AI programming is no easy trick and this franchise is widely regarded as having one of the best AI out there when it comes do wheel to wheel racing. Best as in realistic, and the AI committing mistakes now and then is actually the desired behavior as in real life we're very, very fallible racers.

That is not to say that you should simply soak in and soldier on with a consistently bad AI. If there's indeed something off the mark on the level you play at, gathering data and specially clips will go a long way in providing the devs with the necessary feedback to fine tune the AI behavior on all the different difficulty bands. 

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15 minutes ago, marioho said:

@Moebius21 that helps a lot, knowing the AI level. As you can see from the whole debate, the experience varies by quite the margin! AI programming is no easy trick and this franchise is widely regarded as having one of the best AI out there when it comes do wheel to wheel racing. Best as in realistic, and the AI committing mistakes now and then is actually the desired behavior as in real life we're very, very fallible racers.

That is not to say that you should simply soak in and soldier on with a consistently bad AI. If there's indeed something off the mark on the level you play at, gathering data and specially clips will go a long way in providing the devs with the necessary feedback to fine tune the AI behavior on all the different difficulty bands. 

What makes me thinking tho is that the essentials to the AI behaviour should be the same from 0-110 like leaving space, awareness of the the players car etc. The speed they go is of course different but in case (which is quite possible) Codemasters decided to make the AI behave different (potentially less aggressive etc.) on lower levels it explains a lot.. Seems like its the case but maybe theres more to it anyway, only Codemasters know haha

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