Team Meeting - Dnote's Notes 22/10/15

[Lozzy 0]

@BBFred I'm afraid not no.

@MuhMan in what way do they not work?

@Tourgott I'm not sure because that sounds very subjective. Why not give it a go and let me know? You can always turn them up to Legend for that one race if you want more of a challenge too.

[speeddemon8021 0]

Lozzy said:

@speeddemon8021 if you care to tell us the reasons the game sits in the box then we can look in to them.

Easy multiplayer is not raceable I buy the games primarily to league race don't really do any offline stuff so the game is a bit redundant for me at the minute.

[Lozzy 0]

speeddemon8021 said:

Easy multiplayer is not raceable I buy the games primarily to league race don't really do any offline stuff so the game is a bit redundant for me at the minute.

You're being very general still. In what way is it not possible to race? Can you not find a session, can you not finish a session?

[Tourgott 0]

Lozzy said:

@Tourgott I'm not sure because that sounds very subjective. Why not give it a go and let me know? You can always turn them up to Legend for that one race if you want more of a challenge too.

Sure I could. But you could also just make your AI consistent, couldn't you? 
And it is not subjective. That was reported so many times. Might be before you were around in the forum though. Nobody from CM noticed it.

Edit - All you have to do is to test the game. Race all tracks and you will notice that you can beat the AI easily on one track while you struggle to get on the podium on the next track. Easy to fix if you guys would care, isn't it?

Edit2 - And btw. It's not that easy for us to just change the AI difficulty. E.g. Legend would be too fast for me even if Expert is much too slow on some tracks. So I'm stuck with this mess.

[Lozzy 0]

I'll ask the guys to check they're happy with the times the AI are setting at Sochi. It's going to be impossible to balance this to everyones liking though.

It's natural that at some tracks you're going to be a bit quicker than the AI and at some you're going to be slower. That's natural. If you're a bit too quick try setting up your car to be a bit slower to keep things realistic.

[Tourgott 0]

Lozzy said:

It's natural that at some tracks you're going to be a bit quicker than the AI and at some you're going to be slower. 

Of course. In real life Ferrari also was suddenly a bit faster than Mercedes in Singapore. That's not the problem and I'm not talking about that. But it's very unrealistic if you're 30 seconds behind Mercedes at Melbourne but 40 seconds in front at Sochi. 
It's even more noticeable in Qualifying. It's been the case since F1 2010 that it's very hard to beat the AI at Melbourne (as an average player = Expert difficulty) but very easy to get pole at Malaysia.

All the workarounds you mentioned do work (better or worse) but it would be much better if you fix the AI speed. Or introduce difficulty sliders.

[KevRusski 0]

HelmetSquad said:

Lozzy said:

Getting penalties for running wide is something I've seen once or twice. I'll have a look in to that tomorrow.

This and being penalised for contact when it's really the other party at fault (AI). Not sure how this is calculated/determined?

Agree with this Lozzy.

[hobbsy777 0]

Lozzy said:

I'll ask the guys to check they're happy with the times the AI are setting at Sochi. It's going to be impossible to balance this to everyones liking though.

It's natural that at some tracks you're going to be a bit quicker than the AI and at some you're going to be slower. That's natural. If you're a bit too quick try setting up your car to be a bit slower to keep things realistic.

In another thread a few days ago, you said you would talk to the the team about a slider to vary the AI level. Is this now dead?

[7thGearRL 8]

Thanks for your responses @Dnote and @Lozzy 

My only two main issues with this game is online lag and corner cutting, in previous games, if you cut a corner in qualifying it invalidated your lap immediately, this may have not been bullet proof but it worked much better than the current system where you can cut three, four, five corners, gain over a second and set a lap.

I look forward to the patch and hopefully these issues are changed and rectified, 

[jinCHEZ 0]

Btw lozzy, I got quite some footage of our league racing which I can provide to the devs, some said bugs are in there, also ones you have to recreate to understand, maybe it's easier to just see what happens?

[Lozzy 0]

@Tourgott the guys whose job this is are now aware that Russia / Sochi is a bit slower than hoped, they'll look at it for the next game.

@HelmetSquad and @KevRusski we looked in to getting penalties for running wide today. The problem is no matter how much time you lose if you rejoin the track at a higher speed than you should have you'll get penalised. I'll make sure that's fixed ASAP because that's really frustrating.

As for collision penalties that's a whole world of pain. If you can give me specific examples I'll take a look.

@hobbsy777 did I? You're better than a PA ;). I spoke to Lee and a few other people about this, the conclusion was that a slider wasn't what we wanted because it's quite difficult for a player to find the level they want to play at initially. I'm already looking forward to reading the replies Monday morning.

[Tourgott 0]

Lozzy said:

@Tourgott the guys whose job this is are now aware that Russia / Sochi is a bit slower than hoped, they'll look at it for the next game.

Appreciate that. Thank you. But did you actually say 'next game'? What about the next patch?
And btw. as I already said, it is not only Sochi. AI is inconsistent over many tracks. To test that you need only one guy who plays all tracks including Q1/2/3 in a row.
I don't know how game testing works but nothing easier than that, isn't it?

Edit - And btw. A slider would still be perfect. You could give same basic mile stones, e.g. 50% (= what is Medium at the moment), 75% (= Expert) and 100% (= Legend). And then let us choose all % between 25% and 150%.

[Lozzy 0]

Quali pace is not representative at the moment, there are fixes coming for that.

I said next game because the guys need to spend time on it and I don't know when that will happen, they're busy on other things at the moment. The improvements will most likely change the racing line and that means we need to regenerate a lot of other data that relies on this information (tyre wear, dynamic racing line etc) so unfortunately it's not likely for this game.

[HelmetSquad 0]

@Lozzy watch this video - first corner I have contact with Raikkonen and i'm warned - granted it's not a penalty (i've had pens in the past in similar situations) but a warning implies some degree of blame, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDQG9mlyU7U

|Hope this helps.

[Stevomock 13]

Tourgott said:

Lozzy said:

@Tourgott the guys whose job this is are now aware that Russia / Sochi is a bit slower than hoped, they'll look at it for the next game.

And btw. as I already said, it is not only Sochi. AI is inconsistent over many tracks.

In my opinion, pace consistency is pretty good this game. I used to notice bigger problems like Australia too fast, Monaco too slow, Catalunya too fast, etc. I think it's been getting better each year, and the only real problem I have with this game is Sochi, where they are very slow. Maybe about 1 second too slow, not sure exactly. Sochi had the same problem in F1 2014 where it also stood out from all the other tracks on pace.

Tourgott said:

Edit - And btw. A slider would still be perfect. You could give same basic mile stones, e.g. 50% (= what is Medium at the moment), 75% (= Expert) and 100% (= Legend). And then let us choose all % between 25% and 150%.

I agree with this so much.

[hobbsy777 0]

Lozzy said:

@hobbsy777 did I? You're better than a PA ;). I spoke to Lee and a few other people about this, the conclusion was that a slider wasn't what we wanted because it's quite difficult for a player to find the level they want to play at initially. I'm already looking forward to reading the replies Monday morning.

I thought this was about what we want, not what CM want's. I don't hear any complaints about an AI slider from the the PCars fans.

Sorry @Lozzy, but this is nothing more than a CM copout.

Edit: @Lozzy, please don't take this personally, purely directed at Codemasters.

[MuhMan 0]

Lozzy said:

@MuhMan in what way do they not work?

When you load up the game a dialog box appears that says "Fanatec clubsport pedals v3 are not supported. They may not function properly." 

I am using a G27 wheel and the CSP v3 pedals, they are not recognized as separate devices. So both the pedals and the wheel try to share the X axis. Making the game unplayable (If bound to the same axis, pressing accelerator pedal will just turn the wheel, as it thinks its the same device using the same axis)

[pOkiz 0]

@Lozzy, the brakes and engine heating dont affect anything, right? At least here I cant feel anything different when they're heating. IMO they should do a superb difference in gameplay. For example, today in Mexico free practice 1 Rosberg had his wheels on fire, because the brakes was heating and he was retired from the practice.

Another thing I dont like in the game: the curbs, even in higher curbs the car has a lot o grip, in the game you can do a corner on the curbs without a problem. As you can see in real life, when some driver hit the curbs he need to take the car out of the track and then he returns, cause the car has no grip there.

[jinCHEZ 0]

If the engine gets too much wear, it can actually DNF you

[unknown113 0]

HelmetSquad said:

@Lozzy watch this video - first corner I have contact with Raikkonen and i'm warned - granted it's not a penalty (i've had pens in the past in similar situations) but a warning implies some degree of blame, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDQG9mlyU7U

|Hope this helps.

it's your fault for rejoining without looking. You went off the circuit with all four wheels and decided to rejoin whenever you felt like it. It's an 'unsafe rejoin'. Raikkonnen has every right to use the full width of the track.

[HelmetSquad 0]

unknown113 said:

HelmetSquad said:

@Lozzy watch this video - first corner I have contact with Raikkonen and i'm warned - granted it's not a penalty (i've had pens in the past in similar situations) but a warning implies some degree of blame, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDQG9mlyU7U

|Hope this helps.

it's your fault for rejoining without looking. You went off the circuit with all four wheels and decided to rejoin whenever you felt like it. It's an 'unsafe rejoin'. Raikkonnen has every right to use the full width of the track.

That had actually never occurred to me. Would love to see how that logic is coded though.

also why RAI didn't take avoiding action, or are cars off-circuit suddenly invisible to AI ?

[Lozzy 0]

@HelmetSquad thank you for the video. I'm not certain what specific factors the collision penalty system uses this year as the design was changed. Having looked at it previously all I would say is that it's very difficult to create a system that's right even most of the time let alone all the time!

hobbsy777 said:

I thought this was about what we want, not what CM want's. I don't hear any complaints about an AI slider from the the PCars fans.

Sorry @Lozzy, but this is nothing more than a CM copout.

Edit: @Lozzy, please don't take this personally, purely directed at Codemasters.

You can suggest what you like, and I will do my best to tell you if things may or may not happen, the AI slider issue is a difficult one and in a way I agree with the idea, I even suggested it myself a couple of years back but ultimately it's not as clear cut as just change it and everything is better for everyone. We need to consider all of our players when we're making changes like this and ultimately there are people whose job it is to make those decisions and they have decided not to go with this idea.

When you load up the game a dialog box appears that says "Fanatec clubsport pedals v3 are not supported. They may not function properly."

So the question becomes will support be added. I would say it's unlikely now but I'll ask.

pOkiz said:

@Lozzy, the brakes and engine heating dont affect anything, right? At least here I cant feel anything different when they're heating. IMO they should do a superb difference in gameplay. For example, today in Mexico free practice 1 Rosberg had his wheels on fire, because the brakes was heating and he was retired from the practice.

Another thing I dont like in the game: the curbs, even in higher curbs the car has a lot o grip, in the game you can do a corner on the curbs without a problem. As you can see in real life, when some driver hit the curbs he need to take the car out of the track and then he returns, cause the car has no grip there.

I think I'm right in saying you should have a bit less power when your engine is too hot and less braking power when your brakes are too hot. So you should feel a difference for both.

[pulpete 0]

Still not support for Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals?

Still not FFB properly support?

Still without patch?

What's happening here?

 It's unbelievable.

[FS7 0]

Lozzy said:

@HelmetSquad thank you for the video. I'm not certain what specific factors the collision penalty system uses this year as the design was changed. Having looked at it previously all I would say is that it's very difficult to create a system that's right even most of the time let alone all the time!

I agree @Lozzy , and that's why there should be option to set penalties to full, reduced, corner cutting only, or off, like in previous F1 games. I'm sure CM will keep working on it and will do their best to implement a penalty system that works, but having the options mentioned above can make the game less frustrating. It makes no sense not having those options when they were available in previous games on less powerful console hardware.

[hobbsy777 0]

Lozzy said:

You can suggest what you like, and I will do my best to tell you if things may or may not happen, the AI slider issue is a difficult one and in a way I agree with the idea, I even suggested it myself a couple of years back but ultimately it's not as clear cut as just change it and everything is better for everyone. We need to consider all of our players when we're making changes like this and ultimately there are people whose job it is to make those decisions and they have decided not to go with this idea.

Then there should at least be more levels so that the difficulty change is less steep.