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Driving in the rain


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As we all saw this weekend in Turkey, the drivers go full throttle out of turns, use kerbs, etc, whithout spinning in the rain. Codemasters has to do something more realistic regarding that. Because driving in F1 games in the rain it seem like you are riding on egg shells, or in a rally, you have to put into 5th gear to even star thinking about going full throttle out of turns.

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The fastest lap was 1:30.4 which is slower than even the slowest time of all Free Practice 2 (1:25.6 by Mazepin).

You don't achieve that deficit by going full throttle on turns and kerbs.

Not saying the wet sessions in the game are right. But if the player are not good on his inputs, he will most likely drive like Seb did when he put on the Mediums. 

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Your not alone fella

but you can achieve the same in game.  It requires patience and practice and trial and error with setups.  

Problem is there’s nothing in game to assist with wet weather setups... however tips thread pinned at top off page has @PJTierney YouTube wet weather guide.  

If conditions in race just require inters at start or looks certain you may need them you can easily get away with reducing tyre pressures to lowest pressures.  I generally keep the fronts Pumped up quite abit more than the tears in rain.  Better off having understeer in the wet and you can still adjust front wing to help balance it out.  Then move brake bias to 50 50 and diff down to fifty.  Stay away from kerbs until tyres have had a few laps to warm up and then just requires alittle finesse with your control inputs

Edited by ScaredDuck
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On 10/11/2021 at 5:23 PM, faldon3005 said:

As we all saw this weekend in Turkey, the drivers go full throttle out of turns, use kerbs, etc, whithout spinning in the rain. Codemasters has to do something more realistic regarding that. Because driving in F1 games in the rain it seem like you are riding on egg shells, or in a rally, you have to put into 5th gear to even star thinking about going full throttle out of turns.

I on the other hand find the rain wonderful, and I go really fast with my trustmaster Ferrari SF1000 Edition, just learn, I play without aids I hate them all off,

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On 10/11/2021 at 4:23 PM, faldon3005 said:

As we all saw this weekend in Turkey, the drivers go full throttle out of turns, use kerbs, etc, whithout spinning in the rain. Codemasters has to do something more realistic regarding that. Because driving in F1 games in the rain it seem like you are riding on egg shells, or in a rally, you have to put into 5th gear to even star thinking about going full throttle out of turns.

Agree as a medium tc player . Who learned to drive with medium . TC in the rain a few year ago . I just find it impossible . In this Game with out turning TC back to full . And I'd rather not play the game at all if have to go back to full TC . As its like a diffrent Game . At min if the is any wet races I just simulation them   hope the do sort it out . 

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Rainy conditions are and will always be a challenge in a extreme motorsport like F1. And so it is in F1 21. And that is good like that. Thats why rainy conditions often give an underdoog the chance to drive on the podium, pole eg. Because car control is everything. You can help you in these conditions with a high downforce setup (especially rear wing) and low diff. Increasing rear toe can help too.

And like the other mentioned: Practise practise practise. And for those you don't want to practise, we have a lot driving aids, which help a lot. But Codemasters really shouldn't make driving in rain more easy. We already have so much options to influence how the car reacts in rain. 

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8 minutes ago, DonBlanko said:

Rainy conditions are and will always be a challenge in a extreme motorsport like F1. And so it is in F1 21. And that is good like that. Thats why rainy conditions often give an underdoog the chance to drive on the podium, pole eg. Because car control is everything. You can help you in these conditions with a high downforce setup (especially rear wing) and low diff. Increasing rear toe can help too.

And like the other mentioned: Practise practise practise. And for those you don't want to practise, we have a lot driving aids, which help a lot. But Codemasters really shouldn't make driving in rain more easy. We already have so much options to influence how the car reacts in rain. 

Additionally tho this year emphasizes the difficulty in the rain with less rear downforce compared to last year and the AI are a bit more OP in the rain as last year because of the highspeed rubberband glitch

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7 minutes ago, Meza994 said:

Additionally tho this year emphasizes the difficulty in the rain with less rear downforce compared to last year and the AI are a bit more OP in the rain as last year because of the highspeed rubberband glitch

"Rubber Banding" is a game AI mechanic that stops the player from been able to get too far ahead of the AI in a racing title. If you are talking about the AI apperently being too fast in certain corners, that isnt rubber banding. Since it happens no matter where the player is in relation to the AI.

As for driving in the rain, you need to slow down and relearn the track. Ideally you need to practice in grand prix mode, so that you can learn to drive on both inters and full wets. Since they will both have slightly different handling characteristics.

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20 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

"Rubber Banding" is a game AI mechanic that stops the player from been able to get too far ahead of the AI in a racing title. If you are talking about the AI apperently being too fast in certain corners, that isnt rubber banding. Since it happens no matter where the player is in relation to the AI.

As for driving in the rain, you need to slow down and relearn the track. Ideally you need to practice in grand prix mode, so that you can learn to drive on both inters and full wets. Since they will both have slightly different handling characteristics.

Thats the typical rubberbanding you refer to yes, but the behavior is the same, the AI are pulled along the corners at speeds that are not possible for the cars, its acting exactly like rubber banding just independant of the player

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What @Meza994 is referring to I'm used to see as the AI on rails. That aspect of the AI programming where the game takes the wheel out of its hands and hardcode a set of parameters for it to follow, just as @Ialyrn* described – something that happens no matter where the player is. A couple months ago someone posted a short clip of an overtake attempt at Austria T1 if I'm not mistaken. The player shunted the AI mid corner with another AI car nearby, the AI rotated a bit but immediately righted itself and went on unfazed – the player, not so much haha

That's one aspect of AI that I hope to see improved upon on this new generation but that's no easy feat.

Discussing wet handling isn't easy for the lack of standards. The AI is very processional in the rain, so not of much use. The conditions change a lot and makes for very different handling with the grip gradient and the load transfer being significantly altered. The example I gave before is still what I have in mind when someone doesn't adjust their driving (and setup) appropriately for wet conditions: Seb with mediums in last weekend's Turkish GP, from 0:50 onwards.

That's a sample of how wrong it can get with the incorrect approach to wet racing.

Edit: * Haha lowkey glad I'm getting 4 out of 5 attempts right at tagging you on my first try!

Edited by marioho
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In addition to what marioho talked about, I definitely prefer seeing the AI having more mistakes in rain. I really don't want driving in rain more easy. It should be a challenge. But having this challenge should match for the AI as well. For my opinion the AI drives too clean in rain. While we are fighting for keeping the car under control, the AI almost never makes any mistakes. Having an AI, which also makes mistakes, which has problems with oversteer or with traction here and there, maybe spin rarely while under pressure, then all of our little mistakes we have in rain, wouldn't feel that bad anymore. 

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3 minutes ago, DonBlanko said:

In addition to what marioho talked about, I definitely prefer seeing the AI having more mistakes in rain. I really don't want driving in rain more easy. It should be a challenge. But having this challenge should match for the AI as well. For my opinion the AI drives too clean in rain. While we are fighting for keeping the car under control, the AI almost never makes any mistakes. Having an AI, which also makes mistakes, which has problems with oversteer or with traction here and there, maybe spin rarely while under pressure, then all of our little mistakes we have in rain, wouldn't feel that bad anymore. 

Think everyone wants to see that.  But I think that would mean increasing ai aggressiveness across the board and all cars having increased aggression over a few laps would maybe see a few mistakes.  But all ai cars with increased aggression for a whole race would have accumulative effect which could result in half the ai cars not finishing the race.

Every race game that’s ever been released has proved Getting ai balancing right is harder than finding the holy grail.

every one I’ve played the ai difficulty is either too aggressive, shift 1 and 2 and pc1 or to conservative pc2 and gran turismo.

what we have now is far fron perfect but it’s best we’ve got. 

I’d love to see ai drivers in race games use something similar to shadow of mordors and wars nemesis system.

 

oh and well done codies for amazing update... you guys are awesome 

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10 hours ago, ScaredDuck said:

Think everyone wants to see that.  But I think that would mean increasing ai aggressiveness across the board and all cars having increased aggression over a few laps would maybe see a few mistakes.  But all ai cars with increased aggression for a whole race would have accumulative effect which could result in half the ai cars not finishing the race.

Every race game that’s ever been released has proved Getting ai balancing right is harder than finding the holy grail.

every one I’ve played the ai difficulty is either too aggressive, shift 1 and 2 and pc1 or to conservative pc2 and gran turismo.

what we have now is far fron perfect but it’s best we’ve got. 

I’d love to see ai drivers in race games use something similar to shadow of mordors and wars nemesis system.

 

oh and well done codies for amazing update... you guys are awesome 

Don't get me wrong, I really like the aggressivness and AI behaviour overall this year. Codemasters really improve here year for year. It is a good progression. Sometimes, even when its rare, they are doing heavy mistakes, they fight hard, also to each other. For sure, AI always can be improved, like you said, but in my opinion is in rainy conditions more room for imrpovment. You are right, that rainy conditions shouldn't cause chaotic races everytime. For sure CM have to find the right balance here. But seeing more of these tiny little mistakes, just a little loss of traction, a "wiggling" rear, a little bit understear in corner entry. Not for everyone but maybe more for drivers with less awareness stats. That would make Races in rain more divers and would cause more overtakes, which are already less because AI needs DRS mostly to overtake an opponent.

Thats are just thoughts. I really don't know what it means to develop racing AI. And I am someone who is really really happy with the AI we already have in this game. It is not too aggressive and not too "submissive", It seems my opinion is rare, related to what you've expierenced :D)  But in my opinion AI has in rain more room for improvement than in dry conditions. And back to topic, I just want to say, that I think, improving the AI in this case, could fix the problem PaulLynch mentioned instead of making driving in rain more easy. 

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Two 16 race seasons into My Team I was stuck twice in the rain behind a car for 7 or more laps and then a little wiggle in the corner and I was able to pass into the next turn. I don’t recall any mistakes from the AI in a dry race, but maybe I just don’t remember. On the other hand I have come together with a few cars in corners where the AI should have flown into the gravel, only for them to run on rails. The physics of these contacts seems way off, but then no replicating Senna vs Prost 2 in Suzuka,  so maybe it saves me from developing a darker side.

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10 minutes ago, Aef251 said:

Two 16 race seasons into My Team I was stuck twice in the rain behind a car for 7 or more laps and then a little wiggle in the corner and I was able to pass into the next turn. I don’t recall any mistakes from the AI in a dry race, but maybe I just don’t remember. On the other hand I have come together with a few cars in corners where the AI should have flown into the gravel, only for them to run on rails. The physics of these contacts seems way off, but then no replicating Senna vs Prost 2 in Suzuka,  so maybe it saves me from developing a darker side.

Its actually not the physics, as @marioho also stated there are cases like you described where the game just forces the AI cars to do something specific, be it not be affected by a collision or making it flat in wet Eau Rouge. Its ignoring the physics of the game at that point! Not saying that the physics are perfect, its a simcade of course they are not 100% accurate but they are not near as bad as it seems with such incidents

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@DonBlanko one thing I would love to see more, specially in the rain, is the AI making mistakes under pressure.

Hopefully if one day Codies incorporates a dynamic track conditions system like that of SMS' Project Cars franchise, with puddles and all, we could see they going farther on this route.

Wet lines, drying lines, rubberized ice rink lines and puddles, and the AI trying to navigate through them all with varying levels of success as they try to defend their position.

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