[OFF TOPIC] Sebastien Loëb Rally EVO devs

[RyuMakkuro 6]

KevM said:

RyuMakkuro said:
chase camera can be really awkward to use ... it also requires a tremendous amount of time to actually be able to use it effectively, compared to the amount of time you need for other cameras.

Its awkward to use and requires a tremendous amount of time to actually be able to use it, compared to the other camera's....  

& if you dont like it or cant use it, it would be logical to stop using it, because continuing would actually make no sense maybe?  

Soooooo, maybe choosing to play that way wouldn't seem to be the 'sensible' option maybe?  
Kinda like what @function9 said? 

Logical solution to not being able to use it, is to practice it so you can use it. Personal preference has nothing to do with having sense or not. function9 said it in a way as if it applied to everyone, along with his comparison being completely off place.

Also, please don't cut my sentences in half. I said it CAN be awkward to use for those NOT USED to it. It doesn't meant the camera is awkward in itself, because me and @Snaky115 can tell you it isn't. It requires a different approach, that's all.

thecraicbear said:
I do agree that rubbishing people's preference is silly. 

Regarding chase cam, I find that you get more of a visual feedback from chase cam, which is good for the reasons you have stated in your messages. But like you said, it's down to personal preference, because I find that I get more of a feel for car placement in-car than when using chase cam in any games, just because I prefer having less visual feedback for the whole car and just like to focus on hitting my apexes. 

Having said that, I remember when the old Evo Studios WRC games on PS2 had a killer chase cam! It's probably the best chase cam I've ever used. 

Yeah, I can understand that some can have better feel for car placement with an in-car camera, since it's directly bolted to the car. It's a double edged sword though, as with being bolted to the car means the image itself is less stable, so in a bouncy stages the road for you will be "all over the place", while in a chase camera the road is basically always in the same spot. It's generally a battle of trade-off's as with everything.
I personally like to know how close the car is to the edge of the track, walls, etc. or if the wheels clipped something or not. Even if I don't focus specifically on that, the subconsciousness still picks that up and allows me to adjust accordingly.

As to which chase camera was best... I find the one in Race Driver GRID was superb. It showed the side of the car ONLY when the back started stepping out. Otherwise it was stuck to the car like Porkhammer's name to the top of the leaderboards xD


As to SLRE, the game at least seems to have improved graphically. We'll see what the physics department delivers, though I don't expect them to match DR.

[BrySkye 14]

RyuMakkuro said:

function9 said:

Chase cam with a wheel. It's like playing quake in 3rd person with a gamepad. Doesn't make any sense.

How is being able to tell exactly what is happening with the car without any sense? Your statement is the one that doesn't make any sense as you're basically saying that it doesn't make sense to wear glasses to improve the sight.

Just to make it clear, chase camera can be really awkward to use for those that are not used to it. On top of that it also requires a tremendous amount of time to actually be able to use it effectively, compared to the amount of time you need for other cameras.

Just because you don't like it or simply can't use it doesn't mean it makes no sense. After all, from a logical standpoint, it makes more sense to see what's happening with the car rather than don't. Just saying.

Ryu, he was talking about chase cam with a wheel.
Not chase cam as a concept.

It's certainly possible, especially if it's the way you first started playing. 
Arcade racers have always used wheels with force feedback, and chase cam is still how people would play Virtua Racing, Sega Rally, etc back in the day.
Hell, Mario Kart Arcade GP had a FFB wheel and pedals, but was forced chase cam.



But it's not the most intuitive setup right off the bat, especially if you've ever driven an actual car.

[thecraicbear 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

I find the one in Race Driver GRID was superb. It showed the side of the car ONLY when the back started stepping out. Otherwise it was stuck to the car like Porkhammer's name to the top of the leaderboards xD

That's exactly how the old PS2 WRC cameras were! They were very enjoyable to drive with. It meant that I could alternate between in-car and chase cam without it being much of an issue. 

As for the worst ones, then it has to be the ones that are currently in the new WRC games; it feels like I'm a GoPro on the end of a long stick :D 

[KevM 44]

I know I can occasionally be a tad argumentative, but Ryu takes the biscuit!  In fact, quite often, his own paragraphs argue with one another!! :D

(New Years Resolution - Must Stop provoking Ryu for lolzz) 

[RallyDriven 398]

Surprised how much the game has come on from early builds, will have to wait to see more to judge properly 

[RyuMakkuro 6]

BrySkye said:
Ryu, he was talking about chase cam with a wheel.

Doesn't make a single difference. Yes, I played with a wheel on a chase camera. The type of controller you're using has no impact on which camera you're better off with.

KevM said:

I know I can occasionally be a tad argumentative, but Ryu takes the biscuit!  In fact, quite often, his own paragraphs argue with one another!! :D

Funny only you mention that, when very often people point out you don't make any sense at all. Just sharing something I noticed over time.

thecraicbear said:
That's exactly how the old PS2 WRC cameras were! They were very enjoyable to drive with. It meant that I could alternate between in-car and chase cam without it being much of an issue. 

As for the worst ones, then it has to be the ones that are currently in the new WRC games; it feels like I'm a GoPro on the end of a long stick :D 

Is there anything the WRC games are even remotely good at? Aside from the license xD

[BrySkye 14]

RyuMakkuro said:

BrySkye said:
Ryu, he was talking about chase cam with a wheel.

Doesn't make a single difference. Yes, I played with a wheel on a chase camera. The type of controller you're using has no impact on which camera you're better off with.

So did I once upon a time, but that doesn't mean I can't say that, in hind sight, it's a combination that is quite unintuitive.
You can disagree with that, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it doesn't make a single difference, which is what I've learnt through experience and experimentation.
If you are used to using a wheel with an internal view, shifting to chase cam with a wheel is an incredibly difficult process, which is why so many people find the idea so very alien.
That's completely understandable.
Whereas it's considerably easier to switch between the two if you use a pad (With a pad, I would use first person in Forza, GT and probably F1, but always chase cam in DiRT).
Feel free to think otherwise, but that combination is something that can get rather more deep rooted in your mind.

[DocStrangelove 165]

"...quite impressive, like Driveclub, surprisingly like Driveclub in fact..."

Hmmmm...

[RyuMakkuro 6]

BrySkye said:
If you are used to using a wheel with an internal view, shifting to chase cam with a wheel is an incredibly difficult process, which is why so many people find the idea so very alien.

Yes, if we're talking strict game views only. But if you're talking being used to sitting in a car and then that having an impact on which camera is more intuitive for that specific person when using a steering wheel in a game... nope. It's a completely different environment. In one you're in a tight space that is constantly moving. In second you're in a building, in front of a desk on which there sits a monitor. Your brain starts working differently at that point.
I know people that drive everyday a very long distance and have absolutely no issues using chase camera with whatever input device they want, as long as they are used to it already. If you're not used to chase camera (this may depend on a game to game basis, as it can be setup differently) then naturally you'll have to adjust your approach to it accordingly. That happens regardless whether you are driving a car everyday or not at all.

Everything can be unintuitive if you're not used to it. Chase camera indeed takes a long time to adapt to if you're used to other cameras. But for me when I've been playing the chase camera now constantly for about 3 years, I can adapt to different setups of it very quickly and I find it a lot more intuitive than any other camera. Things that are actually unintuitive are those that behave in a way completely not expected (as in you turn left, the car goes right).

It all depends on personal preference at the end of the day. Just because something for you is unintuitive, doesn't mean it generally is that, because for other people it may be the most intuitive thing in existence (unless of course it goes completely way off the board like the left and right example).

DocStrangelove said:

"...quite impressive, like Driveclub, surprisingly like Driveclub in fact..."

Hmmmm...

That just made me go "Ok, we're done here." That looks nothing like DriveClub in fact...

[KevM 44]

RyuMakkuro said:
Funny only you mention that, when very often people point out you don't make any sense at all. Just sharing something I noticed over time.

I wouldn't expect you to understand sweetheart!  :D

[thecraicbear 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

Is there anything the WRC games are even remotely good at? Aside from the license xD

Very little. They can't even get the co-drivers' names on the cars right during career mode. 

[BrySkye 14]

Ah, Ryu. I know the perfect way to sum you up. :P
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34GUn0QqA

(For the record, I'm just joshing. I wasn't looking for debate on it. It's great you know people who can switch no problems, but for a great many people it's not so easy, and that has to be acknowledged every bit as much as people who are more flexible. There is a difference between acknowledging something and feeling the need to justify it. Especially in taking joking comments too seriously. Even the Codies devs have joked about trying to use chase cam with a wheel during the DiRT Shows).

[bogani 756]

Menus look slick and graphically it looks better than I expected. I also like the test area. Wouldn't mind that in DR :)

[RallyDriven 398]

One thing that looks like it definitely won't match dirt is rallycross

[sqdstr 107]

When looking at pictures of their cars on facebook, some look really good while others look really weird, I find this strange.
F.e. the Celica ST-185 looks pretty good to me, but then the Impreza 555 looks awful

[Azoresst 6]

I'll give it a try on PC, if my PC can run it. WIth the game running at 30fps on consoles and DiRT Rally aiming for 60fps, just there is a huge difference.

[Operator1 4]

er185 said:

Part 1 TeamVVV's gameplays

 

I see this is now a "chase cam is the devil's work" thread, but in response to the thread's original title: the game looks to me like it could be good fun in VVV's latest video on it. If the game has a smooth retail launch without any major bugs/defects, I could see myself buying it shortly after release.

[Myrvold 74]

Well, I take all VVV's opinions with quite a bit of salt, pepper, chili and you name it.

[Jepsertti 26]

Myrvold said:

Well, I take all VVV's opinions with quite a bit of salt, pepper, chili and you name it.

How about oregano?

[Operator1 4]

Myrvold said:

Well, I take all VVV's opinions with quite a bit of salt, pepper, chili and you name it.

I'm not going on VVV's opinion. I'm going on the video footage.

[er185 43]

New gameplay
Body is 28 characters too short.

[SRD_SimVansevenant 863]

sqdstr said:

When looking at pictures of their cars on facebook, some look really good while others look really weird, I find this strange.
F.e. the Celica ST-185 looks pretty good to me, but then the Impreza 555 looks awful

I was thinking the same way. Some of them are modelled quite well but others just look terrible. The Impreza 555 being one of the worst. The bonnet of the Evo 6 look kind of weird as well, like it's dented. And the rims on some of the cars are just horrendous. Those on the Impreza 555 and the Escort RS Cosworth are probably the worst so far and the ones on the Evo 6 aren't right either. I hope that they kept working on them since they released those photos.

So far it LOOKS better than I expected although my expectations couldn't have been much lower.
Let's see what we can conclude from the upcoming gameplay videos in terms of physics and so on.
Looking at the latest gameplay video posted by @er185 it's hard so see the physics at work because there aren't enough camera angles and the guy isn't driving at full chat or even driving decently for that matter.

[KevM 44]

So far, in every video I have seen of gameplay, the guy driving hasn't got a clue!!

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

DocStrangelove said:

"...quite impressive, like Driveclub, surprisingly like Driveclub in fact..."

Hmmmm...

Where does it say that?

[KevM 44]

VVV will be doing a 6 way comparison, if memory serves me correctly, to include DriveClub.  He makes references to similarities right at the close of the video that's posted