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[OFF TOPIC] Sebastien Loëb Rally EVO devs

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JZStudios said:
Driveclub looked good, until rain happened, it was weird and blobby, and yet again, Forza one-upped them.
How can Forza one-up them when it looks like a last gen game compared to it (maybe a slight exaggeration, but the trade offs for 60FPS are more than noticeable)?
Also, people that moan about DriveClub weather haven't been in an actual storm or blizzard. You really don't see much then, just like in the game.

And before someone goes into "it's a matter of preference"... no it's not in this case. All racing simulators aim for as photorealistic graphics as possible. That means the one that is closer to photorealism is the one with better graphics. If games have similar graphical quality, then naturally it becomes more of a preference in the case of which "trade off's" we care about more. But that's not the case here at all. Let's not even try to fake it is, as you can't fool anybody into thinking that a screenshot from a Forza game is an actual IRL photo, while certain manufacturer (I believe that was Audi, not sure though) was tweeting screenshots of their cars in DriveClub and NO ONE realised it was from the game. Evolution Studios (aka devs behind DriveClub) had to inform on twitter those are screenshots from their game.
I've first hand played both, and somehow DC looks better in videos than in person... it's kind of weird. Anyways, I meant the rain droplets. In DC the droplets are big weird blobby jello like things, whereas Forza has a more natural droplet size. I may live in the desert, but when it rains it rains hard to the point where you can't see the end of your hood. Also, I believe it was Nissan USA that mistook it, but most promo pictures now tend to be CG anyways. I also played driveclub for about 30 minutes, went ...eh... and uninstalled it. They do have some nice graphical features, but Forza has others. The DC environments are nice though, too bad you can't see any of it with all the BS that keeps popping up on screen, "Hey, beat this random guys random corner speed... thing."

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JZStudios said:
I've first hand played both, and somehow DC looks better in videos than in person... it's kind of weird. Anyways, I meant the rain droplets. In DC the droplets are big weird blobby jello like things, whereas Forza has a more natural droplet size.
Funny, I find Forza to have a flat 2D object like drops which don't resemble actual rain at all. DriveClub may have too big, not saying it doesn't, but it's definitely closer to realism than what Forza offers in that regard.

Dynamically rendered object > static 2D object

At least speaking from personal experience, since when it rains here... you have a hard time seeing far at night when it rains. At day it's also rather... floody on the windscreen. Which is why DriveClub weather effects "talk" to me so well, they just reflect my own experience when sitting in a car while there's raining dogs outside.

Just so you know, in Poland there's a flood every 4-5 years usually. Sometimes more often, sometimes less. But each year there's a moment when it rains so hard that you think the glass will break.

The gameplay is gameplay though, haven't played, so can't say anything about it. Supposedly you can turn those extra challenges off in normal races. They are part of the social aspect of the game I believe. Not 100% sure about it, so don't quote me on this.

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So here's something.
Milestone have just announced Valentino Rossi The Game, which is also the official 2016 MotoGP game.
They've done so with this video that comprises exactly 0% footage of a game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS-C6gSh0LI

Why mention that here? Well, the still image for the video is a big hint, but to clarify, this was in the email:

Participate in the official MotoGP™ championship, retrace Rossi’s career from its beginnings to the present day, take control of a Rally car and let loose on various tracks such as the Monza Rally, participate in thrilling Flat Track races and discover the world of the Valentino Rossi Ranch. These are just a few of the highlights which will keep fans glued to Valentino Rossi The Game, with its thrilling on and off-line racing. 



"I'm happy to announce that I'll participate in the making of Valentino Rossi The Game, along with the guys at Milestone. We chose to include both the most important elements of my MotoGP career, and all the extra circuit stuff that are so important to me, like Ranch, Rally and more. It will be fun to approach the game not only as a gamer, but also as a 'test driver'. I'll work with the development team to make sure all fans will get the best experience they ever had" - Says Valentino Rossi.


Perhaps a touch of irony when we remember that Valentino Rossi was one of the guest drivers in DiRT 2's Colin McRae Challenge.

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Dynamically rendered object > static 2D object
Forza drops are dynamic, not static. in any case, driveclubs graphics aren't enough to keep me playing it, so I don't really care how good it looks.

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Forza 6 vs. PCars just for extra measure. PCars uses static 2d texture.
https://youtu.be/FbxGQFZpsRw
I like how Forza accumulates smaller droplets, like spray or excess splash from the rain. It's a small detail though.

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@JZStudios Out of those 3 I think overall forza is the worst. Not the rain, but lighting wise, the cars look plastic

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Didzis said:
@JZStudios Out of those 3 I think overall forza is the worst. Not the rain, but lighting wise, the cars look plastic

Well cars nowadays are made of plastic, so... ;)

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BrySkye said:

Milestone have just announced Valentino Rossi The Game, 

To be a proper Valentino Rossi game you should be able to kick your opponent off their bike.

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xkevlarx said:
BrySkye said:

Milestone have just announced Valentino Rossi The Game, 

To be a proper Valentino Rossi game you should be able to kick your opponent off their bike.
Valentino Rossi's Road Rash!

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BrySkye said:
P.S. that rare D3D version has hidden night, evening and fog modes, hold a direction when loading a track! It's also a bit more messy looking that the normal version of the game, as early gen racing games seemed to have to use lower resolution textures in D3D than DX mode (or maybe it was just Sega racing games, like Sega Touring Car Championship too)...
Yup! But someone made a mod that basically mixes the best parts of the original into the D3D version.
Believe me, a lot nicer looking than the Saturn port as well, saying as its double the resolution!
If you mean the unofficial Direct3D patch, then I helped contribute to that by supplying a copy of the Direct3D version (which came from a friend's 3Dfx drivers CD). I also made, for the non-D3D version, higher resolution backdrops, loading screens, and improved looping engine noise sound effects :-)

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JZStudios said:
Dynamically rendered object > static 2D object
Forza drops are dynamic, not static. in any case, driveclubs graphics aren't enough to keep me playing it, so I don't really care how good it looks.
Nope, it's static 2D image. Aka an animation, a .gif so to speak. Since it's transparent it can be put "over" each other. But you can easily see that the drops don't "merge" with each other. It's just a pre-made image. The view at 2:19 shows it perfectly, those lines you see in DriveClub are just how it looks in an actual car. Not to mention, the rain looks like an actual heavy rain, not some slight rain, which is a problem for most games, for example Thunderstorm in pCARS is what I call a medium to medium heavy rain.

The drops in DriveClub are bigger from the very fact they are dynamic object. Forza simply has a very good 2D animated image put there. Drops on the puddles don't have depth in Forza, they do in DriveClub.

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Nope, it's static 2D image. Aka an animation, a .gif so to speak. Since it's transparent it can be put "over" each other. But you can easily see that the drops don't "merge" with each other. It's just a pre-made image. The view at 2:19 shows it perfectly, those lines you see in DriveClub are just how it looks in an actual car. Not to mention, the rain looks like an actual heavy rain, not some slight rain, which is a problem for most games, for example Thunderstorm in pCARS is what I call a medium to medium heavy rain.

The drops in DriveClub are bigger from the very fact they are dynamic object. Forza simply has a very good 2D animated image put there. Drops on the puddles don't have depth in Forza, they do in DriveClub.
Well then it's a dynamic image. The drops may not be 3D, but it's not static like PCars, the "Ultimate PC graphics race sim" I guess at the end of the day it comes down to preference and I like Forza's rain. We get marble sized rain drops here, but they splatter on impact and DC's globules look to large for me, and it only has large drops, there's no light rain.

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JZStudios said:
Well then it's a dynamic image. The drops may not be 3D, but it's not static like PCars, the "Ultimate PC graphics race sim" I guess at the end of the day it comes down to preference and I like Forza's rain. We get marble sized rain drops here, but they splatter on impact and DC's globules look to large for me, and it only has large drops, there's no light rain.
Just because the drops "move" doesn't make them dynamic. Dynamic refers to the fact their "physics" are being calculated in real time (even if at a very shallow level, for example casting a shadow that moves depending on the light source). Static means it's just there, put, it can "move" a bit on a pre set path and have few "if's" included to "swap" the image for something else if a collision is detected, but everything about has been set in stone, you can't alter it.
Dynamic applies only to 3D object as there's no such thing as a dynamic 2D image. The very fact it's an image automatically locks the fact it can't be dynamic, as it's not a geometry.
Project CARS may have a lot more simple rain drops, but it doesn't change the fact that Forza also has simple static 2D images. Again, them moving on the windscreen doesn't make them "dynamic". In fact, if they were dynamic 3D objects, the game would never run at 60FPS in the rain on the Xbone, just saying. DriveClub is the first game to implement rain drops as an actual 3D objects afaik. No wonder that for over a year now it still has the crown of the best looking game.

Forza 6 looks good, it definitely has really realistic puddles, but you can't call a game great looking just because of puddles. 60FPS on a console means worse graphics but more smooth gameplay. Forza did that trade, DriveClub didn't and went full uber graphics mode. So it's kind of pointless to even compare them when one will have to be inferior to the other graphic wise. Then again, there's the SLRE with 30FPS on a PS4 that looks worse than the first DiRT xD

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JZStudios said:
Well then it's a dynamic image. The drops may not be 3D, but it's not static like PCars, the "Ultimate PC graphics race sim" I guess at the end of the day it comes down to preference and I like Forza's rain. We get marble sized rain drops here, but they splatter on impact and DC's globules look to large for me, and it only has large drops, there's no light rain.
Just because the drops "move" doesn't make them dynamic. Dynamic refers to the fact their "physics" are being calculated in real time (even if at a very shallow level, for example casting a shadow that moves depending on the light source). Static means it's just there, put, it can "move" a bit on a pre set path and have few "if's" included to "swap" the image for something else if a collision is detected, but everything about has been set in stone, you can't alter it.
Dynamic applies only to 3D object as there's no such thing as a dynamic 2D image. The very fact it's an image automatically locks the fact it can't be dynamic, as it's not a geometry.
I don't know, I disagree. I think Forza's rain is dynamic. It could be a plane, that simply removes other planes it touches, but they do move dynamically. Also, Forza has the best side window rain. DC only has the fancy 3D drops on the windshield, the side windows are clearly set on a path, that replicate quite frequently, and it looks weird. In Forza the drops don't really streak, but they do remove all the other little droplets. I guess it's really unknown until I see how they actually did it, but playing F6 immediately after DC, I prefer Forza's rain. Personal preference I guess.

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Oh my GOD.  Who gives a shit if the rain drops are dynamic or sprites or whatever!  Christ!  Nobody cares!  Multiple pages of this shit, who cares!  Rain looks good in DR, I never gave a fuck if it's dynamic on my windshield or the surface I'm racing on cause no one cares!! You're mind is focused on driving.  That's just all fluff.  Console racers have always been about flashiness, more than focusing on the driving physics or being realistic in any way. 

We're pc sim racers, who cares about Forza, GT, DriveClub, cmon.  Stop comparing DR to mass market console racers.

In other news, nobody seems to care about SLRE lol.  Can we get somewhat back on topic about hating on Milestone's newest shitpile?

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griev0r said:

Console racers have always been about flashiness, more than focusing on the driving physics or being realistic in any way. 

We're pc sim racers, who cares about Forza, GT, DriveClub, cmon.  Stop comparing DR to mass market console racers.
But being the PC master race with our military-grade rigs, we can also be piqued when the console rabble gets better graphics on their pedestrian toy hardware

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griev0r said:

Console racers have always been about flashiness, more than focusing on the driving physics or being realistic in any way. 

We're pc sim racers, who cares about Forza, GT, DriveClub, cmon.  Stop comparing DR to mass market console racers.
But being the PC master race with our military-grade rigs, we can also be piqued when the console rabble gets better graphics on their pedestrian toy hardware
Yeah, I'm mainly a console player. Just bought myself a PC to race on. But hell, I can buy 3 Ps4 for the price of my PC. Consoles are much better bang for the buck.

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bogani said:
Yeah, I'm mainly a console player. Just bought myself a PC to race on. But hell, I can buy 3 Ps4 for the price of my PC. Consoles are much better bang for the buck.
You also get a lot more power for that price. And while the consoles themself might be slightly better bang for the buck, games on them are more expensive 

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Let's attempt to wrestle this back on topic...

So they said over 50 cars?

Quick count

- Audi S1 PP
- Peugeot 205 T16 PP
- Peugeot 405 T16 PP
- Peugeot 208 T16 PP
- Suzuki Escudo PP (are there two versions of this?)
- Mini Cooper
- Alpine A110
- Fiat 131
- Lancia Stratos
- Peugeot 205 T16 (Group B)
- Ford RS200
- Renault 5 Maxi
- Toyota Celica ST185
- Subaru Impreza (Group A)
- Lancia Delta
- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI
- Renault Clio Williams
- Citroen Saxo
- Citroen Xsara (WRC)
- Citroen C4
- [Citroen] DS 3
- VW Polo
- Mini Countryman
- Ford Fiesta
- Peugeot 208 T16 (R5)


And I guess I'm missing some. Maybe the RX cars count as separate again, but there must be plenty not on that list that are yet to be seen.

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they also have Ford Escort RS Cosworth, I saw screens of it on their facebook, and their 208 R5 model, it's not the real one but it's the concept car

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griev0r said:
Console racers have always been about flashiness, more than focusing on the driving physics or being realistic in any way.  

Little game you might have heard of called Richard Burns Rally? Why do so many forget that was a console game first and a PC game second?
People have always tried. They are simply more limited in what they can do by a fixed hardware spec which is typically cpu light.
F355 Challenge, Le Mans 24, Race Pro (by SimBin)... all these games had a number one focus on being realistic and did their best with what was available. 
We're pc sim racers, who cares about Forza, GT, DriveClub, cmon.  Stop comparing DR to mass market console racers.
Speak for yourself, mate. This is the DiRT series forum. A series in which all but one of the games is multiplatform and there isn't a single technical reason why that one can't make the transition.
Not that this topic has, or ever had to, have anything with DiRT Rally.

I'd love to get this more on topic and would even love to agree with the sentiment of that post, but the ignorance and arrogance of the tone without a hint of sarcasm was deeply unpleasant.

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Let's attempt to wrestle this back on topic...

So they said over 50 cars?

Quick count

- Suzuki Escudo PP (are there two versions of this?)
- Lancia Delta

And I guess I'm missing some. Maybe the RX cars count as separate again, but there must be plenty not on that list that are yet to be seen.
Dunno about two versions of the Escudo, but they might have both it and the later SX4. 
Speaking of the Delta, unless it's a really really bad model, looks like the one they have revealed so far is actually the earlier v16, rather than the Evoluzione.
Saying as that was a topic about a month ago.

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Let's attempt to wrestle this back on topic...

So they said over 50 cars?

Quick count

- Audi S1 PP
- Peugeot 205 T16 PP
- Peugeot 405 T16 PP
- Peugeot 208 T16 PP
- Suzuki Escudo PP (are there two versions of this?)
- Mini Cooper
- Alpine A110
- Fiat 131
- Lancia Stratos
- Peugeot 205 T16 (Group B)
- Ford RS200
- Renault 5 Maxi
- Toyota Celica ST185
- Subaru Impreza (Group A)
- Lancia Delta
- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI
- Renault Clio Williams
- Citroen Saxo
- Citroen Xsara (WRC)
- Citroen C4
- [Citroen] DS 3
- VW Polo
- Mini Countryman
- Ford Fiesta
- Peugeot 208 T16 (R5)


And I guess I'm missing some. Maybe the RX cars count as separate again, but there must be plenty not on that list that are yet to be seen.
Missing in the list:

Lancia Fulvia
Autobianchi A112 Abarth
BMW 2002
Lancia 037
Abarth 500
Ford Fiesta R2
Ford Fiesta R5
Toyota GT86 R3
Peugeot 106
Proton Satria Neo
Suzuki Swift
Peugeot 206
Hyundai i20
Suzuki Monster Sport SX4 Hill Climb

RX Cars are rally cars converted to Rallycross (covered headlights, etc...)

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